Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

you are a true defender of the faith, colpy.

the US isolationist tendencies do nothing to counter the historical evidence of what i posted.

america, and the rest of the west, creates its own problems. the gangs of toronto did not pop out of thin air but are a product of society. society itself must recognize its own failings. Of course, we could always go for "everybody for themselves" and forget social consciousness. You seem to prefer that route, and so do the gangs.

I disagree.

The gangs of Toronto, as politically incorrect as it may be, spring from cultures that glorify violence and gunplay in search of "respect" as an essential part of manhood.

The evidence is clear.

If this trouble springs from poverty and racism, why is it so concentrated among the Jamaicans? Are they the only poor, "oppressed" group in Toronto?

No.

They are probably the only group that comes from an island where guns are strictly banned, and the murder rate is almost 30 times what it is here.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Great video report here, and which details how local police departments are/were preparing for possible attacks against the "Establishment" or "Ruling Class". Look for the Watch 256k stream at top of page. This "security" (more like "Martial Law") took place in New York during the 2004 Republican Convention.

When you see how much effort the New York Police Department used to infiltrate peacefull demonstrations and where police undercover wear outlandish buttons and slogans which appear as anarchy .... CNN films these undercover cops and uses those images to explain just how violent this bike ride could become.

Calm

I think the U.S. is on near civil war itself. Gangs have completely taken over streets within America and where the police even choose not to patrol after darkness. There are hundreds of news stories detailing how violence is now an "organized" event. In the past; lower-class criminals committed violent crime by their lonesome. Sort of like ..... 2 guys meet in an alleyway, .... duke-it-out, and only one remained standing. Today; they are organized, and they sort of "outsorce" the force needed to "defend" or "control" their own space in on the street and daily life and where they deal their drugs as though it were a "right".

6 out of 10 Canadians tried Mary-Do-Yuh-Wanna sometime in the past year. 60% of Canadians finance the gangs who roam our streets.

If Toronto gets 10 million visitors a year and if your caught bringin' dope across the border ..... yuh nearly get a life sentence ..... 6 out of 10 tourists coast down Younge Street every day lookin' to buy the drugs which tourists could not carry across the border.

In other words, we should of allowed the tourists to buy their drugs in the U.S. before arriving at Canada Customs. Let the tourists finance their own gang warfare in their own country. Let them buy in their country of origin but be allow to smoke it on Younge Street!

Problem Solved!

Critical Mass Bike Rides Face Police Crackdown
December 27, 2005
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/27/1443258

 

[the caracal kid]

6 out of 10 tourists are looking for drugs? that is bizzare. even more bizzare than 6 of 10 canadians using drugs (on a trial basis?).

colpy, people are a product of their past. if you do not provide or even push for an alternative, people will follow their previous actions. So, then the question is now does society enact methods to create the necessary changes? What would you do? More proactive programs for emmigrants? Change emmigration processes and standards?

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hi! The Caracal Kid

You think 60% is an exageration? Maybe 40%?

Have you ever hung-out on Younge Street? Have you ever seriously watched the drug trade goin' down? Do you have any idea just how much grass and other drugs are being sold on Yonge Street?

I've been there. A drug dealer selling or owning a "route" on Yonge Street will sell huge amounts during lunch hour and between 5 and 9 any evening.

It is very well organized. When one guy gets busted because of a "crackdown" .... in 2 days, there is a new face doing the "route" and it is a never ending event.

Calm

 

[the caracal kid]

i have not been to toronto in a few years. I don't recall ever seeing drug trades but i probably wouldn't know one unless somebody pointed it out to me. (i admit i am rather naive when it comes to "street life". i grew up rather sheltered. i didn't even see a homeless person before the age of 18 ). I am just surprised that there is such a high usage of drugs.

 

[Summer]

RE: Shooting in Downtown

I doubt that 40% of tourists to Toronto are in search of drugs.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I kinda think that the only way they can get a handle on drugs ......is to set up shops to sell them .....similar to liquor. Make the prices competative. And make megabucks for the provinces .

In fact they could have a Drug "outlet" right next to rehab.. or detox.... offering a choice.. :wink:

'cause "they" sure ain't making any progress in drug control and the crimes associated with them the way they are going.

Might reduce the crime rate too.

(and degun the society. )

 

[the caracal kid]

well, as we can tell from history banning something only leads to profiteering in the illegal trafficking of said goods, be it alcohol, tobacco, drugs, firearms, or others.

the way we get rid of something is to make it such that people do not desire said object.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown

I doubt that 40% of tourists to Toronto are in search of drugs.

well.......it's a challenge to get accurate statistics on this one. No one admits this all that freely. :wink:

(and then you have to know their "language"..... too. :wink:

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

6 out of 10 tourists are looking for drugs? that is bizzare. even more bizzare than 6 of 10 canadians using drugs (on a trial basis?).

colpy, people are a product of their past. if you do not provide or even push for an alternative, people will follow their previous actions. So, then the question is now does society enact methods to create the necessary changes? What would you do? More proactive programs for emmigrants? Change emmigration processes and standards?

Actually, there was a piece in the Post about a minister and lecturer at Harvard who became concerned about the level of violence in Boston's worst neighbourhoods.

The first thing he did was move into the neighbourhood. Now that takes commitment.

He worked to bring police, social workers, teachers, and the clergy together to fight violence. Kids at risk were identified by teachers. Their homes were visited by clergy and social workers, perhaps with a police presence. Not once, but constantly. A safe house was provided where kids could study, or talk to someone, or simply seek refuge. Mentors were on hand to help.

The project met with rapid, and extremely dramatic success.

I wish I could tell you more, but I don't have the article at hand. I believe the good reverend was traveling to Toronto to give advice. from what I read, the city's authorities should listen carefully.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

well, as we can tell from history banning something only leads to profiteering in the illegal trafficking of said goods, be it alcohol, tobacco, drugs, firearms, or others.

the way we get rid of something is to make it such that people do not desire said object.

absolutely ! case in point is the Martin idea of gun registration etc.........and people rushing off to buy guns.

Seems that reverse psychology is needed to deal with these issues.. :wink:

.........offer drugs and guns easily to who ever wants them. Make that a platform and see how people react.

(surrendering control is maintaining control ;-)

 

[no1important]

RE: Shooting in Downtown

I know a lot of Americans come to Vancouver looking for Marijuana. Weare not so narrow minded on the drug industry as america.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown

I know a lot of Americans come to Vancouver looking for Marijuana. Weare not so narrow minded on the drug industry as america.

so do I. Those cute little cafes are doing a healthy business. And no surprise that there have been very few "issues" with them.

Let people have what they will get anyhow......and that takes the pressure off of them to do something desperate if they "need" it.

The minute you can have what you so desperately want......you don't want it so badly either. ( the variable here is the addictive aspect......but that can be dealt with too.)

Furthermore...... sellling it this way, under a "controlled" environment (legally) the substance would have to be quality and that would reduce the risks of "additives " that are dangerous /lethal. The more I think about this ........the better I like it. It would be a win win situation. The moralists will scream for a while.......but that will last only until the next "issue " they get attached to.

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown

I doubt that 40% of tourists to Toronto are in search of drugs.

well.......it's a challenge to get accurate statistics on this one. No one admits this all that freely. :wink:

(and then you have to know their "language"..... too. :wink:

I'm just taking the general population as a base.

 

[zenfisher]

There are two things in life which we can't escape, Zenfisher, death and taxes. There is a also substantial difference between paying taxes for your home, versus paying a registration fee for your car.

A tax on your home is a percentage based on the valuation of the home. As the value goes up, your taxes go up. A registration fee for your vehicle is a fee that you pay to the government which allows your the privilege to drive your vehicle.

Given that gun ownseship is a right within the US and not a privilege, there should be no fees whatsoever associated with owning guns.

Your property is registered in the land titles office. Owning property is a right as well...yet we register it.

 

[Polaris75]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown

[quote="the caracal kidindeed, longer jail terms only result in higher costs to the citizens for maintaining those imprisoned.[/quote]

Which is why we should just kill damn near everyone for every serious crime. We're about there with DNA testing and such that false positives are getting pretty rare. Kill people for murder, hell, kill them for carrying illegal firearms ... they'll think twice about it if death is the penalty.

 

[Jersay]

Are you crazy, you can have all the DNA testing in the world, and you will not be able to eradicate all doubt of innocence and proof.

I would like to ask you anyway, are you Canadian or American, conservative or liberal. It would answer a lot of questions.

We got rid of the death penalty a while ago buddy, by good old Tommy Douglas, and I see no point in bringing back the death penalty. And I am part of the military!

Didn't work in Britain when they had 250 crimes that had death for them. The judges got so scared about sentencing someone to death, they released murders because they couldn't take a life.

In America, the death penalty doesn't decrease crime. Learn your facts before spouting off!

 

[Polaris75]

Cars kill more than guns do. Why don't we outlaw cars?

Licences to drive should not be handed out to every idiot that wants one. Driving is supposed to be a "privilege", it should be substantially more difficult to get a drivers licence than it is.

I know this is off-topic, but I'm in rant mode.

 

[Jersay]

Driving is a privilege, and I agree it should be more difficult to get a driver's license. And car insurance should be jacked up.

 

[Polaris75]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

If the same number of people were hurt just as bad by a guy swinging a baseball bat whats the difference?

The problem has nothing to do with guns.

The problem absolutely has to do with guns. People are rarely killed by baseball bats. I don't have any facts to back it up, but it's pretty obvious that shooting someone will kill them more often than beating them with a baseball bat.