So have you given up on the idea of the death penalty or what?
Because I think having the death penalty is stupid and irrational.
Because I think having the death penalty is stupid and irrational.
Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!
- Thread starter bhoour
- Start date
Jersay said:
Sorry, no, I was catching up on the thread.
Jersay said:
No, but we're pretty close. What would you do? Just eliminate DNA as evidence until it's 100% reliable? It never will be, which is the same with a lot of things we accept as "evidence" now-a-days.
Jersay said:
Canadian, as was supposed to be indicated by my flag icon when I registered. And relatively conservative, though it shouldn't matter and if it does you are generalizing me based on that.
Jersay said:
I don't see what you being a part of the military has to do with it.
Jersay said:
My point was never "it worked in the past", my point is, if you were to impliment it, RIGHT NOW in Canada, all these idiots with illegal firearms who go out and shoot people would think not twice, but three times before taking that gun out to shoot someone, let alone even keeping it if the punishment was death. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm crazy and my ideas would and will never happen, but a death sentence for anyone caught with an illegal firearm would certianly fix our gun-violence problem, at least for the time being. And by "fix", I do not mean eliminate, I mean seriously reduce.
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!
Well if you take away guns then there will be more people killed by baseball bats, being run over by cars, or whatever.
Taking guns away (even if it were 100% possible) is not any solution. People wanting to kill someone is the problem. The problem has nothing to do with guns.
If someone is going to kill I would rather they shot than beat someone to death with a baseball bat or run them over with a car or whatever.
Polaris75 said:
Well if you take away guns then there will be more people killed by baseball bats, being run over by cars, or whatever.
Taking guns away (even if it were 100% possible) is not any solution. People wanting to kill someone is the problem. The problem has nothing to do with guns.
If someone is going to kill I would rather they shot than beat someone to death with a baseball bat or run them over with a car or whatever.
Polaris75 said:
Well, you'd best be ready to execute a huge number of people, because there are at least a million illegal guns in this country, with at least 500,000 owners, and that is very conservative.
You have to remember that a large proportion of honest citizens that own firearms refused to register them as a method of civil disobedience to protest the law. They even have their own organization, with a claimed 25,000 members.
The very idea that you should apply the death sentence to a crime that a large number of your population consider about as serious as jaywalking calls into question your grip on reality.
Best re-think this one.
Commiting a crime with any firearm should be automatic hard time-say 20 years without parole and new prisons should be built in the sub Arctic to cool off these prisoners.
missile said:
As an absolute minimum. And if there are injuries or deaths it should be a lot tougher.
It is disgusting what's happening, I also think that the borders need to be seriously tightened up. more car searches of people comming into the country and very harsh punishment of people caught smuggling wepons into the country, no matter their nationality. Take away the main source and it will help minimize the danger. I also think there are other considerations like more police presence to start with.
However keep in mind that the Canadian government is required to transport prisoners to and (once relesed) back to their home. If these prisons were in the secluded artic then that could be very expensive.
missile said:
absolutely. Sure like the Arctic idea. Give this as much publicity as one can......as it alone might be a deterrant. Imagine these gun happy blokes chewing blubber for dins...
Arctic Conditions
How we treat our lowest in society reflects upon us in many ways. I am in favour of harsher penalties for serious and dangerous crimes, insofar as we do not bring our own Government down to the level of those who commit such crimes.
How we treat our lowest in society reflects upon us in many ways. I am in favour of harsher penalties for serious and dangerous crimes, insofar as we do not bring our own Government down to the level of those who commit such crimes.
The vegitarian opposes the chewing blubber idea, but is is a good one. Just imagin who in their right mind would commit a serious crime knowing they would be sent into a very remot location that (if it gets as cold or colder than T-Bay winters) could regularly get to -40 or colder with the wind chill.
Re: Arctic Conditions
in general and ideal terms , you are right. In reality ....sometimes creative measures .........as long as they are HUMANE!! might be explored.
think of the benefits of having the prisons up north...... it has plenty of room for one thing. The weather is not conducive to mischief .......and a good program might rehabilitate some of these blokes nicely. Has a lot of potential. The idea of punishment is to remove the culprit from society and moving them to a northern prison is an excellent way of realizing this.
FiveParadox said:
in general and ideal terms , you are right. In reality ....sometimes creative measures .........as long as they are HUMANE!! might be explored.
think of the benefits of having the prisons up north...... it has plenty of room for one thing. The weather is not conducive to mischief .......and a good program might rehabilitate some of these blokes nicely. Has a lot of potential. The idea of punishment is to remove the culprit from society and moving them to a northern prison is an excellent way of realizing this.
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!
that is how I see this too. The mere idea of going to a really cold zone for a period of time......or "life".... might just make these trigger happy jerks think twice before going off half cocked..
LindzyRae said:
that is how I see this too. The mere idea of going to a really cold zone for a period of time......or "life".... might just make these trigger happy jerks think twice before going off half cocked..
Merit in the Idea
Actually, thinking harder on this idea, it does have quite a bit of merit.
(a) "Arctic prisons," for lack of a better term, would mean that in the event of a serious compromise of security, escaped prisoners would have nowhere to go, other than into the cold, unprepared; they'd have to choose between their time in detention, or hypothermia.
(b) These prisons would be quite segregated from the vast majority of the population of Canada. If we could locate any parts of the northern territories that are completely uninhabited, preferably island-like, that would be perfect; the chance of escape, or of security compromises of any other nature, would be extremely low.
However, I can see one main "con" to this endeavour. Citizens of the Territories of Canada may feel somewhat offended if we begin "rerouting" a majority of our dangerous offenders to prisons on their land; it may make the citizens of our Territories feel insecure, and that would have to be addressed before taking any such action, in my opinion.
Actually, thinking harder on this idea, it does have quite a bit of merit.
(a) "Arctic prisons," for lack of a better term, would mean that in the event of a serious compromise of security, escaped prisoners would have nowhere to go, other than into the cold, unprepared; they'd have to choose between their time in detention, or hypothermia.
(b) These prisons would be quite segregated from the vast majority of the population of Canada. If we could locate any parts of the northern territories that are completely uninhabited, preferably island-like, that would be perfect; the chance of escape, or of security compromises of any other nature, would be extremely low.
However, I can see one main "con" to this endeavour. Citizens of the Territories of Canada may feel somewhat offended if we begin "rerouting" a majority of our dangerous offenders to prisons on their land; it may make the citizens of our Territories feel insecure, and that would have to be addressed before taking any such action, in my opinion.
Re: Arctic Conditions
In situations like these I have the most sympathies for the families of those who were killed.
for example, I know of one situation where a young woman and 3 of her friends who had made a short trip to the states and were on their way home when they were hit by a man who was extreamly drunk (from what I've heard of this story he didn't even know he had hit anyone he was so drunk), 2 of them (including the woman) were killed and the other 2 very seriously. Now, not only did this man NOT serve any jail time, but the mad was allowed to keep his drivers license.
I am a strong supported of people being punished for their crimes. If somebody takes a life they should be prepared to sacrifice theirs in the form of life in prison.
FiveParadox said:
In situations like these I have the most sympathies for the families of those who were killed.
for example, I know of one situation where a young woman and 3 of her friends who had made a short trip to the states and were on their way home when they were hit by a man who was extreamly drunk (from what I've heard of this story he didn't even know he had hit anyone he was so drunk), 2 of them (including the woman) were killed and the other 2 very seriously. Now, not only did this man NOT serve any jail time, but the mad was allowed to keep his drivers license.
I am a strong supported of people being punished for their crimes. If somebody takes a life they should be prepared to sacrifice theirs in the form of life in prison.
Re: Merit in the Idea
I was thinking about that one too. It is all about HOW it is handled. And these prisons could also be designed as "rehab" centres too. So the prisoners don't sit and vegetate their lives away .
the more I think about it the better I like the idea. Just the notion of being sent to the "actic"... for an indefinate period of time......can send a chill down ones back..;-) There is a psychological deterent here too. Could work.
FiveParadox said:
I was thinking about that one too. It is all about HOW it is handled. And these prisons could also be designed as "rehab" centres too. So the prisoners don't sit and vegetate their lives away .
the more I think about it the better I like the idea. Just the notion of being sent to the "actic"... for an indefinate period of time......can send a chill down ones back..;-) There is a psychological deterent here too. Could work.
oh boy....
it really is a reflection on society how it handles issues. here we see the old "ship it off" attitude seen in other areas such as waste management. The numbing idea that if you move it far enough away it doesn't really exist. Just think of what could be done with all those prisoners. What would it matter to you? They are no longer around you, so you can forget about them. Or perhaps you would care. Would you consider the gains to society as justification for various treatments? Since hypothermia has been raised aready, do you know where much of the original data on hypothermia in humans came from?
the old "that will teach them" attitude is a very dangerous attutude to take, for it makes you the same as that which you condem while you preach of your loftier ideals and civilized ways.
give me a break.
it really is a reflection on society how it handles issues. here we see the old "ship it off" attitude seen in other areas such as waste management. The numbing idea that if you move it far enough away it doesn't really exist. Just think of what could be done with all those prisoners. What would it matter to you? They are no longer around you, so you can forget about them. Or perhaps you would care. Would you consider the gains to society as justification for various treatments? Since hypothermia has been raised aready, do you know where much of the original data on hypothermia in humans came from?
the old "that will teach them" attitude is a very dangerous attutude to take, for it makes you the same as that which you condem while you preach of your loftier ideals and civilized ways.
give me a break.
Not my Intention!
the caracal kid, I promise you, that was not my intention.
I was simply thinking of the fact that it would be more difficult for those who are currently in periods of detention to escape or pose a security risk to the public; in the meantime, I would expect that any such facilities would be "state-of-the-art," so to speak; they'd be fully functional, heated facilities, and prisoners would be treated in a humane way, while simultaneously exposing them to heavy doses of "rehabilitation" and "re-education" programs.
the caracal kid, I promise you, that was not my intention.
I was simply thinking of the fact that it would be more difficult for those who are currently in periods of detention to escape or pose a security risk to the public; in the meantime, I would expect that any such facilities would be "state-of-the-art," so to speak; they'd be fully functional, heated facilities, and prisoners would be treated in a humane way, while simultaneously exposing them to heavy doses of "rehabilitation" and "re-education" programs.
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!
Have you ever lost someone to a horrible crime? I assure you it's not a plesent experiance. I am not talking about torture, and the idea of it being a rehabilitation facility would be good. But the prisoners there would all be people who have commited horrible crimes. The punishment should be suitable.
the caracal kid said:
Have you ever lost someone to a horrible crime? I assure you it's not a plesent experiance. I am not talking about torture, and the idea of it being a rehabilitation facility would be good. But the prisoners there would all be people who have commited horrible crimes. The punishment should be suitable.
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!
hey CK....lighten up. sheesh. ANY idea is worth tossing around. Doesn't mean that anyone will follow through on it. We are spinning ideas..... that actually DO Have potential. But it is ONLY an IDEA......
happy new year.
the caracal kid said:
hey CK....lighten up. sheesh. ANY idea is worth tossing around. Doesn't mean that anyone will follow through on it. We are spinning ideas..... that actually DO Have potential. But it is ONLY an IDEA......
happy new year.
Well, all in all, I think the idea has merit. The technicalities of it would need some work, but the theory of it seems interesting.
heh.... happy new year ocean!
how about the potential of proactive action?
a keystone to the measurement of a society is in its treatement of its citizens, its enemys, the environment. (life in general)
people ARE being too reactionary. revenge is a staple of the small mind. where was all the outcry when the symptoms were first showing? That is a serious question, for how easy it is to turn a blind eye when it does not affect you. How easy is it to just "dispose" of the "undesirable". Be careful the path taken.
how about the potential of proactive action?
a keystone to the measurement of a society is in its treatement of its citizens, its enemys, the environment. (life in general)
people ARE being too reactionary. revenge is a staple of the small mind. where was all the outcry when the symptoms were first showing? That is a serious question, for how easy it is to turn a blind eye when it does not affect you. How easy is it to just "dispose" of the "undesirable". Be careful the path taken.