Shooting at Virginia Tech

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Herm
When is the right time? Human history if full of half-measures and basement-savers...the volunteer fire department that manages to save the basement....
If we continue to wait to see the outcome....let the situation run its course......be patient and watch as the universe unfolds....don't rock the boat.....we end up exactly where we are....
 

Stretch

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Feb 16, 2003
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[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Campus Gun Ban Disarmed Virginia Victims [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]'A gun ban recently enforced by Virginia Tech campus prevented over thirty victims of today's mass shooting from defending themselves against the killer, and yet gun control advocates are already politicizing this morning's tragic events to pull the lever for mass gun control.' [/FONT]
Virginia is a concealed carry state and yet Virginia Tech campus recently enforced a policy prohibiting "unauthorized possession, storage or control" of firearms on campus.
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/160407gunban.htm
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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The gun mania that puts my boy in danger every time he goes to school

By CHARLES LAURENCE in New York
17th April 2007

Daily Mail
Charles Laurence is a British man who lives in the United States


With his 9mm handgun swinging at his hip and his body armour strapped over his shirt, Trooper Rell stalks the corridors of my son Luke’s High School.

His patrol car, with a shotgun locked in the rack, is parked outside the only entrance left open once classes start. He is there every day, all day.


The survivors: Wounded students are carried from the Norris Building





It is his full-time job. You don't get inside the school to attend, say, a meeting with a teacher or watch a sports match without passing under his eye.

He makes a disturbing encounter, particularly with the body armour. My son says he doesn't wear it all the time, as regulations demand, but sometimes just carries it.

But does having Trooper Rell around make Luke, 16, feel safer? "Not really," he answers. Does he seem intimidating? "Not really,"

Luke goes on. "Cops are like that. He’s OK, actually. Mostly, he takes kids down the police station if they get caught with drugs or get into fights." This is 21st century America. A High School, field of dreams for the new generation, crucible, surely, of hopes and achievements and ambitions, grand or humble, and the launch pad to life.

And the first person you see is an armed and armoured cop whose presence seems quite normal to today’s schoolchildren.

Yesterday's monstrous outrage at Virginia Tech spells out all to clearly why Officer Rell spends his days securing a small high school in a lovely mountain valley on the outer fringes of New York's exurbs (the thinly populated areas between the suburbs and the country).

The awful, even revolting truth is that as a parent with children growing up in America, you simply cannot take it for granted when you wave them off onto the yellow school bus in the morning that they will come safely home again.

Of course there are car crashes and sporting accidents to worry about – there always are, and children get driving licences at 16 here – as well as the ever-present worries over the temptations of parties, booze and drugs.

But it is a terrible indictment of a wrong-turn in the American way of life that, as parents, we worry more and more about our children getting shot.

Book after book has been written on why schools are such danger zones: they are fulcrums of fear, failure and rage as well as the opposite human emotions which should be the building blocks of adolescence, and as the world in which the teenager lives, they are bound to be the targets of the twisted and insane.

Back in 1966, Charles Simpson killed four students and wounded nine from the tower of the University of Texas campus at Austin, launching the current era of terror at schools.

He was a Vietnam vet with a rage against those who had escaped into the privilege of learning.

Columbine High outside Denver introduced us to the shocking concept of High School children who could believe that massacring their classmates was a means of getting even.

Last year’s slaughter of innocents in a one-room wooden school in Amish Country proved that no one at all could be safe.

But all of these tragedies and others point up another horror: the casualty rate keeps getting higher.

Is there now a warped competition in infamy, a figure attached to showing how really, really angry the killer is on the day he has chosen as his last, along with as many as possible of other people's children?

What kind of schooling lies ahead for my son Luke? One thing we can miserably predict is that going to school and university is going to become more like getting on an aeroplane in the wake of 9/11.

Just as flying becomes an increasingly ugly confrontation between honest citizen and fearful security, and less and less bearable as a result, so it will be at school.

We need security against terrorism in air travel. But why at school? The answers to that question shames America.

It starts with a culture in which the drive to getting rich and getting ahead has gone too far.

The 'rapper' 50 Cent's grotesque disc and film last year – Get Rich Or Die Trying – actually told a terrible truth to America's children.

They believe the message and, in a sense, they are right to believe it.

The culture of individual competition has driven America to great heights in material wealth and intellectual achievement, but it has gone too far. The Sopranos television show has become a cult - not for what it tells us of gangsters, but for what gangster culture tells us about modern America and the way it goes about its business.

This puts huge pressure on America's young.

Coming second is for losers; being poor is your own fault and don't ask for help; if you fail to get into law school and the onto the fast track, it is because you played too much baseball in the park at 15, and maybe fell in love at 17.

The nation which once slung on its six guns to rescue Europe and the world from the horrors of totalitarianism and genocide now seems like the bad guy straddling the world like Tony Soprano looking for business in a gang war.

A psychologist should write a thesis on the impact of President Bush, dressed up as a Hollywood Top Gun and swaggering over an aircraft carrier deck before the dead have been mourned, and saying things like: 'Bring 'em on!'

What does that tell an American kid? And what does it tell him when he sits in front of the television for hours at a time blasting-away at video games of absurd violence, structured simply for the fun of the gore without so much as moral theme to trouble the sheer vicious joy of vicarious power?

Young American troops training for the 'clash of civilisations' in the horrors of Iraq and Afghanistan have actually been trained with machines just like video-arcade games.

That, according to some doctors, is one reason why the rate of mental breakdown and post-traumatic stress disorder is accelerating: they are shocked beyond sensibility to discover that dead, raped and tortured enemies are actually real people with rights to live, and that when their gung-ho buddies get their limbs blown off, the blood is real.

The movies of Quentin Tarrantino, to pick a particularly talented pop-culture director, are arch ironic satires on America to those audiences who know what 'arch ironic satire' means.

However, the kids crowding the multiplexes for the gore fest have no idea, but simply think that slicing people like salami is a pretty cool move, dude.

If all this is something far too complicated to fix by the time Luke ventures off to university – and pray God he stays safe – there is one element to the mayhem for which there is no such excuse. Guns.

Most of what I have heard about guns and freedom and the Constitution in 20 years in America is pure poppycock. The concept that to be 'free', you must be able to buy a machine gun or a Glock 9mm pistol – or even an over-the-counter hunting rifle – is simply rubbish.

It is rubbish because if you look at the social forces within, and present dangers to America, absolutely none of them comprise a totalitarian revolution led by a cartoon version Stalin or Hitler, only to be stopped heroically by a bunch of roughnecks with their bang-bangs.

It is symbolic that Virginia, scene of yesterday’s tragedy, is at the epicentre of American gun culture.

How proud that makes the National Rifle Association! The old Virginie Colony of George Washington is still armed to the teeth, ready to reach under the bed for the gun to bring justice to that "arrogant" King George III.

What really goes on is that unscrupulous off-the-book gun dealers use their 'freedom' to buy as many guns as they want at any time, and sell them on the black market to the bandits of New York, Philadelphia and Baltimore - all cities with terrible mortality rates among young black men.

The nation which believes it can create democracy and market economies at will, along the trade routes of the world, should be able to control its own domestic gun market. There is no excuse for the young having the means to storm onto a university campus and slaughter more than 30 innocents without even running short of ammunition. Absolutely none.

Along with the great majority of parents in this troubled land, I'd be more than grateful if someone in Washington's Imperial Presidency would cut the cant – and the campaign contributions from the gun lobby – and get on with controlling the firearms market. Before my boy ventures off into the danger zone.

dailymail.co.uk
 
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#juan

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I was pretty sure somebody would make that point after what I posted, though I'm a little surprised it was you, hermann. No doubt there are many parents thanking god that their children are not among the dead. What kind of sense does that make? God protected my child but not yours? BS. False comfort is no comfort, it's a delusion. God, if he has the attributes usually attributed to him, could have prevented this. Obviously he didn't, and any thoughtful believer has to wonder why he would allow such avoidable devastation and pain. You going to tell me this is part of some vast mysterious plan that's beyond human comprehension? I'll call BS on that too, and I'll also call god a useless and incompetent turdball for not preventing this.

You wonder why I'm an atheist? Nothing else makes sense to me.

Lightning hasn't struck me yet for offering such rude opinions about the deity. I don't think he's there.

Nothing about this disaster makes any sense. If those fortunate people who didn't lose loved ones want to thank God, or thank fate, or thank random violence, it is fine with me. I'm sure those who did lose family or friends will be cursing those same enties, or non-entities. I know that some people do take comfort in their religious beliefs and far be it from me to take that away from them. There have been times in my life when I wished I could find that comfort but couldn't.
 

Stretch

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Black op

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term black op has two related meanings:
Black Ops missions often fall into the deniability category, where no government will claim responsibility for the action, or where responsibility is shifted to another actor in the case of a "false flag" operation. This type of operation is normally used by various secret services to achieve some goals while trying to operate secretly (so the connection between "black operations" and secret agents or even the country of their origin cannot be found). The methods used in black operations are also used in unconventional warfare and includes actions like assassinations, espionage, sabotages, and supporting of resistance movements.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
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Nothing about this disaster makes any sense. If those fortunate people who didn't lose loved ones want to thank God, or thank fate, or thank random violence, it is fine with me. I'm sure those who did lose family or friends will be cursing those same enties, or non-entities. I know that some people do take comfort in their religious beliefs and far be it from me to take that away from them. There have been times in my life when I wished I could find that comfort but couldn't.

Right now this intire state is in shock.......I went to the bank and the tellers look hollow. At the gas station everyones looking at the ground. The only thing keeping me from total pieces is my faith. I KNOW what those parents are feeling. Ive candles lit everywhere and im holding my appache tear so tight. I cant make it go away but I can send my energy to them. I can do that if nothing else.
 

Curiosity

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One of the professors who had this man in her classes said his work output was becoming more disoriented and troubled. She didn't report him however - yup don't make trouble until the house is on fire.

At his age he could have been wrestling with an onset of schizophrenia - it is a nasty disease which hits people between the ages of 17 and 25 - often very bright and introverted young people - often boys - and while nothing has been written, it follows the scenario of a break with reality. If he had made it to the senior classman level, he was obviously fighting and disguising very well without being noticed.

Yet one professor said he had been referred for 'counseling' which rings huge alarms in my head... the kid had to be obviously acting out for anyone in academia to notice when surrounded by young people who all seem to be acting out in some way or another.
 

Blackleaf

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Of the world's 35 richest countries, the US has the largest gun ownership rate and also the highest amount of gun-related deaths per 100,000 of the population. At the other end of the scale, Britain has one of the lowest gun ownership rates and one of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths per 100,000 of the population - a tiny 0.41.

% of households with at least one gun

United States - 39%
Norway - 32%
Canada - 29.1%
France - 22.6%
Australia - 19.4%
Italy - 16%
Spain - 13.1%
Germany - 8.9%
Britain - 4.7%

------------------------------

Gun-related deaths per 100,000 people of selected countries

United States 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Belgium 2.90
Italy 2.44
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Germany 1.24
Britain 0.41

gunsite.com
 
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darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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I guess everybody likes to wallow in maudlin sentimentality for these victims as they are used in death to fill up the airwaves with manufactured concern, hundreds, thousands can die under similar circumstances and if they don't belong they don't get covered nobody knows or cares. The 32 victims and thier familys will be left no dignity as every part of thier tragedy is revealed day after day, this is just another Anna Nichole Smith oportunity and nothing more.
Yes it's a tragedy but it's not by any stretch of the imagination either the biggest or the most meaningful of yesterday or today. It's just another event that will be forgotten as fast as someother distraction comes up. In case you wonder if I care, well I don't, I've seen it before, it's ordinary, it's trivial, it's boreing.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Blackleaf,

Very strict gun control did not prevent the massacre at Dunblaine. That same level of control is impossible in the United States, as it would be an obvious violation of their Constitution.

Very strict gun control has not stopped school shootings in Canada.......we have been lucky in that the shooters have not been very "successful", at least since that terrible night in December 1989.

It is true that the powers that be at Virginia Tech prevented their students from having in their possession the means to defend themselves..............as it is simply impossible to keep the weapons out of the hands of the completely looney, it would be better to allow the innocent some defense.

In Africa some years ago, a disgruntled student killed 53 classmates. He chained the dormotoriry doors shut, and threw in molotov cocktails.

This weirdness, this mailaise has to do with more than the fact millions of us own deadly weapons without causing any problems. I am sickened by the continuing 24 hour coverage on CNN CBC...........you'd think the shooter had hired them!

Taking my guns will solve nothing.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
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I guess everybody likes to wallow in maudlin sentimentality for these victims as they are used in death to fill up the airwaves with manufactured concern, hundreds, thousands can die under similar circumstances and if they don't belong they don't get covered nobody knows or cares. The 32 victims and thier familys will be left no dignity as every part of thier tragedy is revealed day after day, this is just another Anna Nichole Smith oportunity and nothing more.
Yes it's a tragedy but it's not by any stretch of the imagination either the biggest or the most meaningful of yesterday or today. It's just another event that will be forgotten as fast as someother distraction comes up. In case you wonder if I care, well I don't, I've seen it before, it's ordinary, it's trivial, it's boreing.

You are aptly named :(
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Blackleaf,

Very strict gun control did not prevent the massacre at Dunblaine. That same level of control is impossible in the United States, as it would be an obvious violation of their Constitution.

Very strict gun control has not stopped school shootings in Canada.......we have been lucky in that the shooters have not been very "successful", at least since that terrible night in December 1989.

It is true that the powers that be at Virginia Tech prevented their students from having in their possession the means to defend themselves..............as it is simply impossible to keep the weapons out of the hands of the completely looney, it would be better to allow the innocent some defense.

In Africa some years ago, a disgruntled student killed 53 classmates. He chained the dormotoriry doors shut, and threw in molotov cocktails.

This weirdness, this mailaise has to do with more than the fact millions of us own deadly weapons without causing any problems. I am sickened by the continuing 24 hour coverage on CNN CBC...........you'd think the shooter had hired them!

Taking my guns will solve nothing.



First, I don't want to see you lose your guns. Colpy there will always be looneys out there who go on a shooting spree and we know that the normal person doesn't do that. We also know that most shooting deaths are not part of a larger massacre. It is hard though, to argue with the numbers that tell us that the higher the gun ownership, the higher the number of deaths from guns.
 
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Stretch

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how many deaths are prevented in incidents where someone produces a gun in self defence or fires back, that we dont get to here about because the msm downplays or doesnt report them at all......

In January 2002, a student at the Virginia Appalachian School of Law, Peter Odighizuwa, shot three people dead before other students were able to retrieve guns from their cars and put an end to the carnage before there was more bloodshed. Over thirty victims at VA Tech yesterday were denied that right as a result of a campus gun control law that helped the shooter pick off his targets at will.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/170407helpedkiller.htm

Gun Control's Twisted Outcome
Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.
Posted Apr 17, 2007 07:04 AM PST
Category:
RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS

The Virginia Tech gun ban allowed the killer to keep killing, unapposed. Contrast yesterday's mayhem with the 2002 shooting incident at the Appalachian School of Law which ended when a student with a legally owned firearm stopped the attack.
Gun ban = more deaths.
Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens - fewer deaths. Anti-gun = pro=crime.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
 

Stretch

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Media Subterfuge and School Shootings: All of the Media's Lies are Connected
“Goldberg analyzed media coverage of a school shooting that occurred at the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Virginia. According to Goldberg, what made this story newsworthy is that the shooter in this event was subdued by several students who themselves used guns to ‘overpower’ the gunman. Conducting his own Lexis-Nexis search, Goldberg pronounced himself ‘stunned’ to discover that in a search of one hundred news sources, “only a few papers in the whole country reported the rescuers had guns” (p. 186). That many newspapers then used this case to editorialize their opposition to private ownership of handguns simply reaffirms Goldberg’s belief that a liberal media embraces a reflexive anti-gun bias.”
Posted Apr 17, 2007 07:37 AM PST
Category:
MAINSTREAM MEDIA

http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/04/media-subterfuge-and-school-shootings.html
 

Outta here

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Jul 8, 2005
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First, I don't want to see you lose your guns. Colpy there will always be looneys out there who go on a shooting spree and we know that the normal person doesn't do that. We also know that most shooting deaths are not part of a larger massacre. It is hard though, to argue with the numbers that tell us that the higher the gun ownership, the higher the number of deaths from guns.
This same discussion came up in my home last night. I'm sure in many homes the topic was similar.
My question was: If people who are pushed over the edge do NOT have access to a gun, do you think they'd just find another weapon... jump in a vehicle and mow down a bunch of people at a bus stop for example, or make a bomb... I mean it doesn't seem that these acts are impulses, they take time to plan and carry out... so it's not necessarily the ready availability of the guns is it? Yet as you say, the numbers indicate differently. I don't know...maybe a comparison of mass murders regardless of method or weapon used would provide a clearer picture on this.