Shame on Canada! re: Propaganda and Canada's Support of Ethnic Cleansing.

[Just the Facts]

Hamas came as close as possible to completely eliminating the rockets fired at Israel. The took action against anyone violating the truce. This graph shows how effective they were at reducing and nearly eliminating the number of rockets and mortars fired at Gaza.



At the rate Hamas was going, they would have completely elimintated rocket and mortar attacks. When Israel violated the ceasefire on November 4, 2008, the attacks were almost completely eliminated.

If Israel's leaders truly cared about protecting their citizens more than they cared about getting re-elected, they would not have broke their ceasefire agreement the day Americans elected Barack Obama.

You do realize the irony of the data presented in that graph, right? It demonstrates perfectly why Israel had to invade Gaza. The ceasefire was an attempt to thwart that necessity, but it didn't work. See all those bars from January to June 18? That's why Israel went into Gaza. End of story. They didn't want to. They had to.

And the rocket fire continues......

 

[Colpy]

Hey Colpy, give your head a shake. I only count 37 attacks between June18 when the truce started and the October 2008. I'm pretty sure no attacks against Israel happened in November until after Israel violated the ceasefire on November 4, 2008.

In fact I only count 2 attacks in October, down from 4 the month before and 11 the month before that. Looks like a trend towards 0 to me. Also not a single one of those attacks were carried out by Hamas. In fact Hamas was arresting people who violated the ceasefire.

None of these rockets fired in defiance of Hamas killed a single Israeli. How many hundreds of children should Israel be murder for this minor inconvenience? Do a few craters in a farmer's field justify starving 1.5 million people?

If Israel was so sure their November 4, 2008 attack was justified then why did they choose a busy news day when they knew the world would be distracted by US presidential elections. Looks to me like Israel tried to pull a fast one while no one was looking.

Right you are! My mistake, I was reading the numbers incorrectly.....Sorry!

37 attacks is pretty damn significant.....my point still stands....why do you NOT consider the 37 attacks launched from Gaza to be violations of the cease-fire.....but Israel's one attack into Gaza, for some reason, you do consider a violation.....

Please don't say Hamas didn't hurt anyone.......it wasn't for lack of trying.

 

[Zzarchov]

Earth as one,

Is hamas the government or not? The Truce was not with Hamas, it was with the Government. If Hamas can not control the situation on the ground, then it is in no situation to make truces.

Israel doesn't give a rats ass if one group doesn't launch attacks, especially a group of cold blooded killers (by your own words). The deal was all attacks stop.

If Hamas couldn't make that happen, that isn't Israel's fault nor do they care.

Not being able to live up to your end of a bargain (that you made) does not mean the agreement stands.

If you agree to buy my car for $5,000, but try as you might, you just don't have $5,000..you don't get to keep my car, even if you did everything possible to pay me for it.

 

[earth_as_one]

Right you are! My mistake, I was reading the numbers incorrectly.....Sorry!

37 attacks is pretty damn significant.....my point still stands....why do you NOT consider the 37 attacks launched from Gaza to be violations of the cease-fire.....but Israel's one attack into Gaza, for some reason, you do consider a violation.....

Please don't say Hamas didn't hurt anyone.......it wasn't for lack of trying.

First off none of those attacks were by Hamas. Every one of those 37 attacks were by other groups and in defiance of Hamas. One of the groups responsible for the attacks takes its orders from Fatah. They are a Hamas rival and were armed by Israel and the US. Why would a group armed by the US and Israel fire rockets at Israel in defiance of Hamas?

Second, not only did Hamas try to prevent those rocket and mortar attacks, they even arrested those responsible. So Israel cannot claim Hamas was trying to kill anyone during the ceasefire. On the contrary, Hamas's actions show they were trying to maintain the ceasefire. Hamas's actions during the ceasefire probably prevented Israeli deaths.

Third, Israel never attacked the militant groups responsible for the rocket and mortar attacks. Instead they focused just on Hamas who were trying to stop the attacks. That means that Israel's attacks had little to nothing to do with the rocket attacks. On the contrary, Israel's leaders knew a deadly attack against Hamas would result in a sharp increase in rocket and mortar attacks. In fact, I'd say they were counting on it. Obviously the safety of Israeli citizens wasn't their primary concern.

Fourth, Israel never allowed the free flow of international humanitarian food and medical aid into Gaza as per the terms of the ceasefire and international law. Israel was obviously trying to provoke Hamas from the beginning of the ceasefire.

Fifth, it is important to note that the rocket and mortar attacks didn't kill anyone. The attacks never even wounded anyone or caused any significant property damage. In the month before Israel November 4, 2008 ceasefire violation, only one rocket and one mortar were fired at Israel. That shows Hamas had almost completely stopped those responsible. Israel's deadly attack and escalation to Hamas's ineffective response shows Israel's leaders were spoiling for a fight, rather than interested in keeping the rocket attacks to a minimum.

Sixth, Israel lied about the purpose of the "tunnel". Carter claims it was a defensive fortification and I'm more inclined to trust Carter than one of the belligerents. Also Israel deliberately chose the same day as US elections. They knew the attack wouldn't make the news in the US or get much coverage anywhere else. Israel's leaders were trying to keep their deadly attack off the radar as much as possible. That means they knew it was a ceasefire violation and that it would be hard to justify.

Seven, Israel ignored repeated attempts by Hamas to return to the truce. That proves Israel had no interest in a truce.

I don't support any group which resorts to violence. I think Hamas is a violent extremist group. On the other hand they are the legitimate democratically elected Palestinian goverment. They've also demonstrated they can keep their word. I don't think Canada or Canadians should support Hamas or Israel. We should stay out of this fight, speak out against war crimes and crimes against humanity and send humanitarian aid. We should insist all sides respect international laws and their ceasefire agreements or face punitive measures.

 

[Zzarchov]

First off none of those attacks were by Hamas.

Irrelevant, the deal wasn't that Hamas stop firing rockets. It was that rockets stop coming in.

Fourth, Israel never allowed the free flow of international humanitarian food and medical aid into Gaza as per the terms of the ceasefire and international law.

Hamas never achieved its end. Again, if you agree to buy my car for $5K, and can't actually get $5K togethor (through no lack of trying or fault of your own), you don't actually get my car unless you get me the money.

secondly, that isn't international law. IF it is, please feel free to contact the international police. Ask them what they think about direct missile and mortar strikes targeting civilians while you are at it.

Fifth, it is important to note that the rocket and mortar attacks didn't kill anyone.

No its not. Attempted murder is still a crime.

Seven, Israel ignored repeated attempts by Hamas to return to the truce. That proves Israel had no interest in a truce.

Wrong, Israel has offered permanent truce. Hamas has ignored this. And if Hamas has no interest in stopping the killing, only the stopping the killing until its better armed, then screw it.

We should insist all sides respect international laws and their ceasefire agreements or face punitive measures.

Considering we have no intention of enforcing international law, what is it we are going to do to be "punitive", they already live under a constant stream of explosions.

 

[earth_as_one]

Pretty easy to tell by looking at this graph, when the ceasefire began. The graph also shows how Israel's November 4, 2008 ceasefire violation made the situation worse for Israelis.

Its true the rockets and mortars didn't stop completely, but obviously Hamas made an effort to eliminate them. Hamas cannot be expected to prevent criminal acts in defiance of Hamas and the ceasefire. Its only reasonable to expect Hamas to attempt to find those resoponsible and hold them accountable, which they did.
Reuters AlertNet - Hamas arrests first rocket squads since truce


No one, not even Hamas can control 1.5 million people absolutely. A single rocket fired at Israel in defiance of Hamas during the month of October doesn't constitute a "crisis" or justify Israel's November 4, 2008 election day attack which killed 6 Hamas militants and ended the ceasefire.

Today two rockets were fired at Israel from Lebanon. Israel responded reasonably with barrage of artillery shells directed at the source. Fortunately no one was killed. Hezbollah is not being blamed for the incident and the ceasefire remains in place. If Israel was interested in peace they could have reacted the same way to each rocket fired at Israel from Gaza during the truce.

Suffice to say Hamas respected the terms of the truce to the best of their ability, and they were 99.9% successful. Compare Hamas's efforts to end the rocket attacks with Israel's compliance with their truce obligations:

...Some 750,000 people rely on food aid from the UN agency for Palestinian refugees Unrwa for their staple foods. The rations provide about two-thirds of their daily nutritional needs...

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Guide: Gaza under blockade

As Hamas successfully reduced the number of rocket attacks down to a single attack in October, Israel decreased the amount of international humanitarian food and medical aid reaching Gaza in direct violation of their agreement with Hamas.

If Israel was observing the truce, they would have increased the amount of international food and medical aid reaching Gaza in propartion to the reduction of rocket attacks. Instead they increased their blockade.

I agree with former President Jimmy Carter. This was an unnecessay war:
Jimmy Carter - An Unnecessary War

The facts support the conclusion that Israel's leaders deliberately started this war in a cynical attempt to get themselves re-elected. As a result more than 1300 people died (including more than 400 children), 5300 were wounded, 50,000 people lost their homes and $2Billion US of infrastructure was destroyed.

Anyone who defends what Israel does is either ignorant, in serious denial of the facts or a callous supporter of cold blooded murderers.

 

[ironsides]

"Maybe if people had been less anti-semitic over the years, Palestinians wouldn't be so oppressed today." Hamas is just another entity within a non existent people.


"The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, Muslim Sherkas from Russia, Muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. The civil and tribal wars between Yemmenites (from Yemen) and Kessites (from Banu Kais of Saudi Arabia) ... are well known among Palestinians.

The current PLO and Arab claim (and mainstream media regurgitation of it) is indeed a very distorted version of `recorded history' and can only qualify as pure Orwellian propaganda. In fact, putting aside all the myths and propaganda, the only area that would qualify historically as truly Arab land, is the Arabian desert peninsula. Unfortunately, it seems that Goebbels was correct in stating that if a lie were repeated often enough, it would come to be "perceived" as truth.
No doubt, some Arabs have lived in the area of the Mandate of Palestine for many centuries, but not as many of them as had the Jews. What is more, Jews had lived in Arab lands since times preceding Islam itself. And yet, these Jews in Arab lands were never regarded as citizens of the Arab lands they lived in and were unceremoniously expelled in the years subsequent to Israel's establishment. In other words, residency alone did not confer national rights on those who inhabited an area. Nor did it make a people out of congeries of Arabs and other nationalities that had come to the area of the Mandate of Palestine while the Jewish people were restricted. The nations of the world recognized this after World War I when the League of Nations determined that the geographical area called Palestine was to become a homeland for the Jewish people, the people that had been continuously associated with this land since ancient times when it was known as Judea and S-


"Palestinians" [are an] Arab people no one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of propaganda... As has been noted many times before, prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis, the only persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews, with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.


Where's the evidence the Israelis have a siege mentality against the Palestinians? Again, there isn't any. The truth is ... the Arab world has repeatedly tried to destroy the only democratic nation in the entire Middle East. If Hamas wanted to make a legitimate deal with the Israelis right now and end the so-called 'state terrorism' against their people. Yet instead they prefer to use his own people as pawns in his own cunning, devious game. It is Hamas itself, not the Israeli people, who are the enemy of the Palestinians."

 

[earth_as_one]

Your hate literature, cut and pasted from a Zionist website, is hardly convincing and not supported by the evidence.

The evidence proves that not all Jews left this area. Many stayed and some even converted to Islam. Other people lived here before the Jews arrived and after some Jews left. Not all Jews who "returned" to this area descend from people who originated from this area. Some descend from converts in the countries where Jews took up residence.

ABSTRACT:

The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for

the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte

antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison
with other Mediterranean populations by using
neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence
analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close
to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks
(Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians and
Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both
Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites,
who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and
Anatolian peoples in ancient times.​

Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences.​

The relatively close relatedness of both
Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean
populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean
cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric
and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic
diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations
substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle
East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition. Human
Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001). ã American Society
for Histocompatibility and Immunogenetics, 2001.​

Published by Elsevier Science Inc.​

http://kinoko.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~dura...ness_With_Other_Mediterranean_Populations.pdf​

Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity regardless of who cleanses and who is cleansed.

Judaism is a religion, not a race.​

 

[Just the Facts]

No one, not even Hamas can control 1.5 million people absolutely. A single rocket fired at Israel in defiance of Hamas during the month of October doesn't constitute a "crisis" or justify Israel's November 4, 2008 election day attack which killed 6 Hamas militants and ended the ceasefire.

That's interesting. A few rockets fired at Israel during the truce don't constitute a crisis. I can see where you're coming from, and can actually live with that assertion.

Interesting that same standard doesn't apply to the November 4th "attack". Firing missiles at civilians, no big deal. A border skirmish between armed combatants....all bets are off, light up the rockets boys, the truce has been violated!! :lol:

As Hamas successfully reduced the number of rocket attacks down to a single attack in October, Israel decreased the amount of international humanitarian food and medical aid reaching Gaza in direct violation of their agreement with Hamas.

Not to split hairs or anything, but not really. A quick scan of news articles from the time reveals at least two rockets and two anti-tank rockets. I also noticed what seemed to be an inordinate number of attempted terrorist attacks out of the west bank thwarted in October also. Hmmm.

Also what jumps out at me is the number of times Israel closed the crossings in response to rockets from Gaza. I know I'm no Einstein, but how could they keep closing them if they were never opened? More hmmmm's.

Gaza militants fire Qassam into W. Negev after month-long lull - Haaretz - Israel News
Israel shuts Gaza crossings after Qassam hits west Negev - Haaretz - Israel News
Antitank missiles fired at IDF force for 1st time since truce - Israel News, Ynetnews

Also, in regards to the "defensive" tunnel, I wonder if Mr. Carter has, or would like to, comment on this:

Revealed: IDF foiled kidnap bid, arrested infiltrator from Gaza - Haaretz - Israel News

 

[Just the Facts]

Palestinians are genetically very close
to Jews

:lol: I bet saying that in the West Bank or Gaza will pretty much get you killed.

 

[ironsides]

"Palestinians are genetically very close
to Jews"


Why are we introducing genetics into the topic, isn't that what caused this problem in the first place. (very racist slanted interpretation of results.)

For the most part they come from the same region and except for religion are the same.

 

[Tyr]

"Palestinians are genetically very close
to Jews"


Why are we introducing genetics into the topic, isn't that what caused this problem in the first place. (very racist slanted interpretation of results.)

For the most part they come from the same region and except for religion are the same.

Even their religions are from the same tenents - They are both monotheistic, Abrahamic religions

 

[einmensch]

• Rory McCarthy in Ashkelon
• The Guardian, Wednesday 5 March 2008
• Article history

Silvio Grinberg peers through a hole in the ceiling of his living room caused by a Grad rocket fired by Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip at the southern Israeli costal city of Ashkelon. Photograph: Gali Tibbon

Gaza: غزة هاشم في الحصار

Posted on April 22, 2002​

Is it Israeli Democracy or "Jewish Democracy", you be the judge. Are you aware that:

• Prior to the 1948 war, Palestinian Christians and Muslims were a two-third majority of the population of Palestine, who owned and operated 93% of Palestine's lands?
  
  
• Prior to the 1948 war, most Israeli Jews were persecuted and dispossessed European Jews who made a one-third minority of the population?
  
  
• Prior to the 1948 war, only on third of the Jews in Palestine were legal citizens of the country?
  
  
• For Israel to become a "Jewish majority" it opted to expel and dispossess the two-third Palestinian majority?
  
  
• 80% of the Palestinian people were dispossessed from their homes, farms, and businesses and have been kept out for the past 54 years?
  
  
• 95% of Israel's lands (which is mostly owned by Palestinian refugees) is open for development to Jews only?
  
  
• Only one of the 45 Zionist Jews who sign the Israeli "declaration of independence" on May 14th, 1948 was born in Palestine. The other 44 were mostly Jewish refugees who escaped their anti-Semitic Europe countries, such as Tsarist Russia, Germany, and Poland.
  
  
• Israeli-Palestinian citizens live almost in segregated communities (or ghettos) because development is strictly limited outside their villages? Ironically, the word "ghetto" was invented to describe the living conditions of Eastern European Jews in Tsarist Russia!
  
  
• For just being "Jewish" you gain an automatic citizenship in Israel? Plus tens of thousands of dollars in subsidies too.
  
  
• Palestinian Muslims or Christians refugees, who were born in the country and later expelled, cannot gain Israeli citizenship? Of course, unless they convert to Judaism first!
  
  
• Pretending to be Jewish in Israel is punishable by law with up to one year's imprisonment? On the other hand, if you pretend to be a Muslim or Christian the law does you no harm!
  
  
• When the Palestine problem was created by Britain in 1917, more than 92% of the population of Palestine were Arabs and there were at that time no more than 56,000 Jews in Palestine? That Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Palestinians at that time lived in peace with each other?
  
  
• Palestinians in the early 20th century owned 97.5% of the land, while Jews (native Palestinians and recent immigrants together) owned only 2.5% of the land?
  
  
• Close to 4 million Palestinian Muslims and Christians are being subjected to Israeli laws that are different than the laws governing the 4.5 million Israeli Jews? Is this a "democratically" elected apartheid, or not, that is the question?
  
  
• In the occupied West Bank there are "Jewish Roads" and "Non-Jewish Roads"?
  
  
• Israel issues national identify cards where the religion of the card holder is clearly shown in bold type?
  
  
• Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza drive vehicles with license plates that have different coloring than the cars driven by Israeli settlers?
  
  
• Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers?
  
  
• The only form of Judaism recognized by the "Jewish state" is Orthodox Judaism, so most US Jews could not get married in Israel. Furthermore, the only conversion to Judaism recognized is Orthodox, so most US converts aren't Jewish enough.
  
  
• Just prior to the 1948 war, Jews owned under 7% of Palestine's land, and to increase their share after the war, they passed the "Absentees' Law" which dispossessed the Palestinian majority land owners who later became "absent". What is even more tragic was the passage of an oxymoron law, called "Present Absentees' Law," which dispossessed the Palestinian-Israeli citizens who became internal refugees in Israel. It is worth noting that the internal Jewish refugees were not dispossessed as a result of this racist law.
  
  
• The U.S. funneled into the Israeli economy over 130 billion dollars, which is almost twice the amount devoted to rebuilding Western Europe after WW II!
  
  
• Israeli democracy is a facade for "Jewish Democracy?"
  
  
• Israel has nuclear weapons, and it was close to dropping one on Cairo in 1973?
  
  
• Israeli soldiers use human shields in battle to minimize their casualties?
  
  
• Israel killed over 20,000 Lebanese and Muslims (90% of whom are civilians) with American made and paid for weapons?

 

[Colpy]

Never mind.:roll:

 

[earth_as_one]

That's interesting. A few rockets fired at Israel during the truce don't constitute a crisis. I can see where you're coming from, and can actually live with that assertion.

Interesting that same standard doesn't apply to the November 4th "attack". Firing missiles at civilians, no big deal. A border skirmish between armed combatants....all bets are off, light up the rockets boys, the truce has been violated!! :lol:

Not to split hairs or anything, but not really. A quick scan of news articles from the time reveals at least two rockets and two anti-tank rockets. I also noticed what seemed to be an inordinate number of attempted terrorist attacks out of the west bank thwarted in October also. Hmmm.

Also what jumps out at me is the number of times Israel closed the crossings in response to rockets from Gaza. I know I'm no Einstein, but how could they keep closing them if they were never opened? More hmmmm's....

If Hamas was responsible for any of those rocket attacks or was encouraging them that would be a ceasefire violation. If Hamas didn't arrest people responsible for firing the rockets that would be a ceasefire violation.

The West Bank isn't part of the ceasefire agreement as per Israel's refusal to include it. But that doesn't mean the West Bank is safe or peaceful. Palestinians are also oppressed there too.

The Association for Civil Rights in Israel

The State of Human Rights in
Israel and the
Occupied Territories
2008 Report

...For forty-one years, Israel has denied fundamental rights to four million Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Even the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in the mid-1990s and Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2005 did not change the fundamental imbalance of power in which Israel controls the lives of the Palestinians, and is responsible for the daily, severe, and ongoing violations of their rights....

The Occupied Territories: Violation of the Right to Life and Personal Security

In the Occupied Territories, disdain for the lives of Palestinians continues. According to
data from B’Tselem and OCHA (the UN Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs),
430 Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza were killed and over 1,150 wounded
by Israeli security forces in the period from January through October, 2008. Many
were not involved in hostilities when they were hurt. Property damage and the use of
excessive force against Palestinians – sometimes to the point of abuse – have become
the norm...

http://www.acri.org.il/pdf/state2008.pdf

Israel isn't supposed to interfere with humanitarian food aid as per the terms of the truce and international law. As you can see by these bar graphs they have blocked most humanitarian food from reaching Gaza.

Compare Israel's actions above with Hamas's actions below for June, July and October 2008.

As Hamas successfully decreased the number of attacks, Israel responded by decreasing the amount of aid reaching Gaza.

Perhaps Israeli apologists can explain Israel's actions. What's the principle involved? Is Israel trying to tell Hamas that if they allow more attacks they will allow more aid?

 

[earth_as_one]

"Palestinians are genetically very close
to Jews"


Why are we introducing genetics into the topic, isn't that what caused this problem in the first place. (very racist slanted interpretation of results.)

For the most part they come from the same region and except for religion are the same.

That was in response to your previous post:

"The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations!

I meant nothing regarding racial superiority or purity. Our genes are proof of ancestry. Genetically, Palestinians and Jews are more closely related to each other than they are to people from the surrounding nations. I bet people on both sides find that truth disturbing.

 

[Just the Facts]

If Hamas was responsible for any of those rocket attacks or was encouraging them that would be a ceasefire violation. If Hamas didn't arrest people responsible for firing the rockets that would be a ceasefire violation.

No one is buying this "it wasn't me, it was him" shell game anymore. You may as well save your breath.

The West Bank isn't part of the ceasefire agreement as per Israel's refusal to include it. But that doesn't mean the West Bank is safe or peaceful. Palestinians are also oppressed there too.

I didn't mean to imply that it was. I see you're still on top of not missing any opportunity to seque into another episode of Copy and Paste for Palestine. :lol:

Perhaps Israeli apologists can explain Israel's actions. What's the principle involved? Is Israel trying to tell Hamas that if they allow more attacks they will allow more aid?

Yes, that must be it! :roll: Perhaps the message is that Hamas is not killing enough Jews?

 

[earth_as_one]

No one is buying this "it wasn't me, it was him" shell game anymore. You may as well save your breath.

I didn't mean to imply that it was. I see you're still on top of not missing any opportunity to seque into another episode of Copy and Paste for Palestine. :lol:

Yes, that must be it! :roll: Perhaps the message is that Hamas is not killing enough Jews?

A shell game would be if the number of attacks were not substantially reduced.

This is about what's reasonable. Hamas was not responsible for a single attack on israel and reduced the number of attacks from Gaza by 99%. That qualifies as substancial and indicates Hamas did everything within its power to observe its ceasefire obligations. A few rocket attacks fired at Israel in defiance of Hamas are crimes, not ceasefire violations. Hamas had a ceasefire obligation to find those responsible and hold them accountable, which is exactly what they did:

Reuters AlertNet - Hamas arrests first rocket squads since truce

If a Canadian fired a mortar across the border into the US, would that a treaty violation or a crime?

I'd say that depends on how the Canadian government acted. If the Canadian government encouraged that action in any way or failed to hold the person responsible, then yes it would be a treaty violation and potentially an act of war. But if the Canadian government arrested the person responsible and apologized to the American government, then the action would only be a crime. I would not expect the US to invade Canada, lay waste to Ottawa and kill thousands of innocent Canadians in response to a crime. I'd consider that American action an unjustified act of war.

Compare Hamas's actions regarding the ceasefire with Israel's. Israel did not make a reasonable effort to uphold its ceasefire obligations. They could have let more humanitarian aid enter Gaza, but chose block most of it. As the number of attacks approached 0, Israel tightened its blockade. The November 4, 2008 raid into Gaza which killed six Hamas militants was a deliberate ceasefire violation. The Israeli government made a deliberate and premeditated decision to violate the ceasefire. If the Israeli soldiers which entered Gaza and killed Hamas militants acted without orders from their superiors and were arrested as a result, then that would be a crime. It would be unreasonable for Hamas to attack Israel in response to a crime. But we both know that the Israeli government authorized the November 4 2008 Israeli raid into Gaza. They chose to violate the ceasefire on the same day Americans elected Barack Obama knowing it would not make the US news.

BTW, from the time the truce went into effect on June 18, 2008 until Israel's murderous rampage into Gaza in December 2008 which killed more than 1300 people (including more than 400 children), wounded 5300, destroyed the homes of 50,000 people and destroyed $2Billion US of infrastructure, not a single Israeli had been killed or injured by a rocket or mortar fired from Gaza.

 

[tracy]

Can I ask something? We can't even get people in the former Yugoslavia back to homes they owned 15 years ago. Why on earth would someone think it was possible or even reasonable to return "Palestine" to the way it was before 1948?

 

[Just the Facts]

A shell game would be if the number of attacks were not substantially reduced.

This is about what's reasonable. Hamas was not responsible for a single attack on israel and reduced the number of attacks from Gaza by 99%. That qualifies as substancial and indicates Hamas did everything within its power to observe its ceasefire obligations. A few rocket attacks fired at Israel in defiance of Hamas are crimes, not ceasefire violations. Hamas had a ceasefire obligation to find those responsible and hold them accountable, which is exactly what they did:

No, it's not. It's about ceasing fire. That's why they call it a ceasefire. Otherwise it would have been a substantiallyreducedfire. When someone shoots during a ceasefire, it's a ceasefire violation. That's not complex.

BTW, from the time the truce went into effect on June 18, 2008 until Israel's murderous rampage into Gaza in December 2008 which killed more than 1300 people (including more than 400 children), wounded 5300, destroyed the homes of 50,000 people and destroyed $2Billion US of infrastructure, not a single Israeli had been killed or injured by a rocket or mortar fired from Gaza.

Israel's "murderous rampage" came after Hamas let loose with hundreds of rockets. By then the ceasefire was over. The ceasefire was the only thing preventing the Israeli incursion from happening long before it did. That was no secret. There were no maybes.

"The way it looks now, we're closer to launching an operation in Gaza than we are to any other arrangement," Olmert told reporters accompanying him back to Israel from Washington recently.
Shortly before Israelis began celebrating the Shavuot holiday, which ended yesterday, government officials declared that this decision would be heavily influenced by rocket activity toward Israel over the holiday.
This was followed by a number of missiles and rockets fired on a daily basis at Israel from various Palestinian resistance organizations. Prior to the holy weekend, an Israeli father of three, Amon Rosenberg, 51, was killed in Nir Oz kibbutz, when rockets hit a paint factory.

Edit: Of course Mr. Rosenberg's life doesn't matter because he was killed BEFORE June 18. Besides, he was killed by a highly ineffective weapon. His kids will sleep better knowing that, I'm sure.

Israel Debates Ceasefire vs. Gaza Invasion - Middle East Times


Of course Hamas couldn't help itself from firing rockets at Israel, even knowing full well it would result in the incursion and the deaths of women and children that you like to keep reminding us about while seeming shocked and perplexed that women and children actually die in war.

The "murderous rampage" was wholly preventable. Hamas and their fellow Jew hating organizations didn't want it prevented. In fact, they've spent years trying to provoke it. Why do you think they're gloating now about their "success". Hamas and their Jihad masters see the incursion as a great victory.