Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll

[damngrumpy]

TenPenny all too many, I was listening to an open line show on a Astral Media
station and employers were making note of it, in addition they have in some
cases prepared a questionnaire for parents to help orient younger people into the
new world of employment. You also have to remember us older folks have to
look after them more than once in some cases because they totally mismanage
their world and they would end up being homeless.
Many don't leave home until well into their twenties. To answer your question
though according to some employers, it is becoming a concern.
There is no bloody way the seniors should give up their wealth to support the
younger people, no one did anything for us when we started out. I worked as a
grocery clerk and worked my way up.
In fact hearing that these people think I should give up my wealth and what I
worked for to make way for them, makes me so bloody mad that I feel like finding
some thirty something chicks and blowing all my money in Vegas. However if I did
that my wife would kill me hehehee.
Nothing is owed to anyone we all have to get off our duff and procure our own
wealth, and find our way in the world. All of our older grand kids, those who are now
19 to 25 are all working. Most have a trade, yes with papers, two are finished college
and the ones coming on are looking for work. My kids all have jobs, professions or a
trade. If they can do it anyone can do it.

 

[Tonington]

So if we didn't pay into OAS who did?

Tax payers pay taxes. The government has general revenues. They also collect premiums like CPP and EI. So some programs are funded by general taxes, and these are at the whims of Parliament, and some like CPP you pay for directly. If you spend any time thinking about this, then some programs obviously are more sustainable than others because there is dedicated funding for the program. You put in and you take out. OAS is only take out. CPP is invested and you get in what you put in.

OAS is not paid into directly, so how can you get out what you put in? The size of the OAS liability is determined by demographics and the rate the government sets. So when you were paying taxes, it's not going to be the same thing at all as when you start drawing. You don't get to take out what you put in, because that's not how the program is set-up. It's welfare for senior citizens. Consult the table to see how much you qualify for:
Old Age Security Payment Rates

Make note, there is no part of the calculation that considers what you paid in, because that's not how OAS works...I would think pension-aged Canadians would know this, though I guess at the same time it's not necessary to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive a car from point A to B.

 

[JLM]

Tax payers pay taxes. The government has general revenues. They also collect premiums like CPP and EI. So some programs are funded by general taxes, and these are at the whims of Parliament, and some like CPP you pay for directly. If you spend any time thinking about this, then some programs obviously are more sustainable than others because there is dedicated funding for the program. You put in and you take out. OAS is only take out. CPP is invested and you get in what you put in.

OAS is not paid into directly, so how can you get out what you put in? The size of the OAS liability is determined by demographics and the rate the government sets. So when you were paying taxes, it's not going to be the same thing at all as when you start drawing. You don't get to take out what you put in, because that's not how the program is set-up. It's welfare for senior citizens. Consult the table to see how much you qualify for:
Old Age Security Payment Rates

Make note, there is no part of the calculation that considers what you paid in, because that's not how OAS works...I would think pension-aged Canadians would know this, though I guess at the same time it's not necessary to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive a car from point A to B.

Well, what you say might apply to the supplement but definitely not to the basic OAP. The prime minister and Garfield Weston even get to draw that.

Ton's too by the sounds of it.

I mispoke on this one but for some reason when I tried to deep six it five minutes later I couldn't.

 

[damngrumpy]

If there is a problem with old age security it is not the fault of the senior citizens it is the bad
economic policy and poor money management. In many cases governments knew they were
going to have problems, but instead of having the taxes reflect the expenses, they raided
everything they could get their hands on. CPP has been raided to offset expenses and so
have other agencies. At some point the bills come due. Before blaming seniors, they should
questioning all those politicians who kept taxes low, and put off paying the bills. This is still
happening today and no one seems to care about it. It is easier to blame an identifiable
group like seniors. who created the wealth we enjoy today. Sorry I have little sympathy for this
current generation, at least the ones who think they are entitled to something. I have no time
for those who think the world owes they a living either.
We have all too many who decided to become professional students and they never applied
themselves to the harsh realities of discipline, hard work, determination and respect for others.
Those are the fundamental building blocks of success and without them these folks are lost.
No one is going to get you up in the morning, no one is going to drive you to work, no one is
going to guarantee you success. or a job at the top. These are things that the fundamentals
teach you and when the current crop of self centered, selfish little buggers understand that
things will get better.
If one of my kids said to me, why should I have to work? My answer used to be So you can
survive one more day, and when you learn what that is about you will learn that life is more
than about survival alone. Without setback and disappointment, there is no real joy in
victory and accomplishment they go hand in hand, and too many in the upcoming generation
haven't learned that. The other thing that people should take into consideration. If we fell on
hard times, like a serious depression, how would the younger generation survive it? The
seniors could, because we have seen tough times, and we know how to do a number of things,
to earn enough for our keep. In a specialized world that is not the case for the younger
generation, not in the broad spectrum anyway. For those older people who taught their kids
and grand kids about doing as many jobs as possible when starting out good for you, you
taught them how to survive in a hostile world. For those who are feeling they are entitled
I feel sorry for you, for you will fare worst of all if and when the roof falls in.

 

[Tonington]

Well, what you say might apply to the supplement but definitely not to the basic OAP. The prime minister and Garfield Weston even get to draw that.

Let's be clear, the Old Age Security cheque that seniors receive is not for money you paid into a fund...there is no fund. Look into CPP, you would have seen a line item deduction on your pay cheque. I do, it's always been there, even when I wasn't paying income tax as a student.

CPP is a fund that we all pay into, and what you get back depends partially on how much you put in. Your contributions are part of the calculation for receiving CPP benefits.

I'm not trying to tell you seniors that OAS is a bad thing, or that it's you folks being lazy or greedy. In fact there's entirely too much of that in this thread, which is a shame because I think this issue is very important. I wouldn't have spent so much time looking into this as a "youngster" if I didn't think it was important. I'm simply stating the simple facts that it is not an account; the government doesn't collect tax information about how much you paid into OAS, or how much I have paid into OAS. OAS is a liability paid for like thousands of other government liabilities. It's not at all like the Canada Pension Plan.

There is no way around it. People my age are going to be leaned on heavilly.

I mispoke on this one but for some reason when I tried to deep six it five minutes later I couldn't.

Hands off the trigger! Friendly fire accidents are no good to anyone.

 

[Spade]

Maybe instead of giving money to a particular generation - old, middle, young - aren't we supposed to give our money to the poor?
Bill O'Reilly: Jesus Vs The Poor - YouTube

 

[JLM]

Let's be clear, the Old Age Security cheque that seniors receive is not for money you paid into a fund...there is no fund. Look into CPP, you would have seen a line item deduction on your pay cheque. I do, it's always been there, even when I wasn't paying income tax as a student.

CPP is a fund that we all pay into, and what you get back depends partially on how much you put in. Your contributions are part of the calculation for receiving CPP benefits.

I'm not trying to tell you seniors that OAS is a bad thing, or that it's you folks being lazy or greedy. In fact there's entirely too much of that in this thread, which is a shame because I think this issue is very important. I wouldn't have spent so much time looking into this as a "youngster" if I didn't think it was important. I'm simply stating the simple facts that it is not an account; the government doesn't collect tax information about how much you paid into OAS, or how much I have paid into OAS. OAS is a liability paid for like thousands of other government liabilities. It's not at all like the Canada Pension Plan.

There is no way around it. People my age are going to be leaned on heavilly.

.

Yes, I understand that it's not a dedicated fund where we all pay into into it according to some preconceived formula, but that doesn't make it any less funded by the citizens of Canada.

 

[Tonington]

Yes, I understand that it's not a dedicated fund where we all pay into into it according to some preconceived formula, but that doesn't make it any less funded by the citizens of Canada.

I never said it wasn't funded by Canadians. It's no different than any other welfare offered by Ottawa in that respect, it's paid for by tax payers.

 

[damngrumpy]

Here is another way of dealing with it. If you want to take the money from the old and they
would end up being poor under present circumstances in many cases, those on fixed incomes.
Instead give the money to the youth as suggested by some. Then allow the parents grand parents
and so on to bill the younger generation for everything they got, things like education and
health care, and the luxuries of life while growing up. Didn't think there would be too many takers
on that one.
In BC, there is a different situation that other Provinces. Parents even if they haven't laid eyes on
their child for decades can still sue for maintenance in the courts if they are destitute. That is a
fact. Another from a series of legal matters on open line. I didn't know this before until October so
perhaps some estranged parents living on the street should begin finding out where young successful
Johnny lives and go for a payday. Yes the law exists, am I serious about actually going after the
kids no, the problem is they can.

 

[JLM]

Here is another way of dealing with it. If you want to take the money from the old and they
would end up being poor under present circumstances in many cases, those on fixed incomes.
Instead give the money to the youth as suggested by some. Then allow the parents grand parents
and so on to bill the younger generation for everything they got, things like education and
health care, and the luxuries of life while growing up. Didn't think there would be too many takers
on that one.
In BC, there is a different situation that other Provinces. Parents even if they haven't laid eyes on
their child for decades can still sue for maintenance in the courts if they are destitute. That is a
fact. Another from a series of legal matters on open line. I didn't know this before until October so
perhaps some estranged parents living on the street should begin finding out where young successful
Johnny lives and go for a payday. Yes the law exists, am I serious about actually going after the
kids no, the problem is they can.

One interesting side note- when we were kids growing up "thrift" was a part of our vocabulary. How often is that word heard today among the current generation? :smile:

 

[Cannuck]

Nothing is owed to anyone we all have to get off our duff and procure our own wealth

Agreed. I don't think the seniors "owe" the younger generations anything. I just think they should show some humility and maybe apologize to them for saddling them with such debt the minute they are born. Especially since the debt was created so the seniors could raise their own standard of living. Taxing my kids and grandkids to pay for my lifestyle is having them support me. I'm not sure why it is so difficult for seniors to admit that that is what they have done.

Maybe instead of giving money to a particular generation - old, middle, young - aren't we supposed to give our money to the poor?

What a radical concept!

 

[JLM]

Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - More evidence that generational tensions are high; a poll finds seniors aren't keen to relinquish publicly-funded services in order to help the struggling younger generations.

Seventy per cent of seniors asked felt they should be a top priority when it comes to doling out government cash.

UBC's Paul Kershaw is surprised most of them say they know families are struggling. "Even so, 80 per cent of Canadians 55-plus say they have earned their fair share of the wealth produced by Canada's economy and therefore deserve to enjoy the benefits."

He believes the older generation might want to think about their kids a little more because they're the ones who will deal with the consequences of actions we take today.

"As the baby boomers in particular approach retirement, they're leaving larger government debts and an environmental record that isn't that great. It's going to be their kids and grandchildren who need to pay for it," he says.

Kershaw notes the result is especially surprising, considering things like housing values and lower poverty rates have made it much easier to retire.

He adds Statistics Canada data show poverty among seniors has declined from 29 per cent in 1976 to less than five per cent in 2009. The poverty rate for families with kids under the age of six is 15 per cent.

The poll also shows 65 per cent of 18-44 year olds believe "a greater share of wealth produced in Canada should be invested in the next generation of families and children."

Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll - News1130

Seniors gave up money to the younger generation for an entire generation. Who do you think paid for the raising and educating of our kids? When our generation reached age 18 or so we got out of our parents' hair and supported ourselves, unlike many of the current generation who are still dependent on their parents into their 20s and 30s. We've done our bit, give us a break!

 

[petros]

I don't give a **** who you are. If you can't manage your damn money maybe it's your destiny to not have any?

 

[mentalfloss]

Maybe instead of giving money to a particular generation - old, middle, young - aren't we supposed to give our money to the poor?
Bill O'Reilly: Jesus Vs The Poor - YouTube

:lol:

 

[JLM]

I don't give a **** who you are. If you can't manage your damn money maybe it's your destiny to not have any?

The whiners and snivellers seem to have a problem with that simple concept! Do you think low I.Q. is a big part of the problem? :lol:

 

[petros]

In every pub in Canada you find the world's greatest unemployed electrician, accountant, shoemaker, lawyer ...

 

[JLM]

In every pub in Canada you find the world's greatest unemployed electrician, accountant, shoemaker, lawyer ...

Ya got that right! :lol:

 

[ironsides]

You think the young whipper snappers are to afraid to say that they want to steal our money?

 

[mentalfloss]

Based on the huge increase in housing prices and seniors getting richer, it looks like adults will have to start living with their parents. What's worse is that the housing bubble is taking effect again and houses are actually 25% overvalued because of artificially low interest rates. Come five years from now, current house owners will have to downgrade if they can't afford the interest rate hike.

With the interest hike and high prices, no amount of 'money managing' will afford this..

 

[JLM]

You think the young whipper snappers are to afraid to say that they want to steal our money?

I wouldn't go QUITE that far...................it's more a feeling of entitlement. Fifty years ago it was an inbred philosophy that each man looked after himself, sure there were times people needed help, but we didn't ask for it until there was no other way and when we got it we reciprocated.