Russia demands access to nerve agent in ex-spy case standoff

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
This request is not unreasonable, given that most judgments result from evidence presented.

It might be interpreted as slowing the process, but really, what can the UK do if the Russians targeted two of their own? The Brits are simply upset that this happened within their borders. But wait, the UK participates in this cloak and dagger stuff in other countries as well! It will happen again. Welcome to the murky world of intelligence.

These actions are both sides playing to the camera. Neither country really cares, but heck, it's good theatre and it soothes the average Brit sitting at home. Final tally: The British government is full of faux outrage. Russia takes care of some business. Life (for most) goes on.

Russia demands access to nerve agent in ex-spy case standoff
Moscow must explain use of Soviet-made poison by midnight, U.K. prime minister says
- The Associated Press

Russia will only co-operate with Britain on the investigation into last week's poisoning of an ex-Russian spy and his daughter if it receives samples of the nerve agent that is believed to have been used, Russia's foreign minister said Tuesday.

Sergey Lavrov spoke in response to the British government's demand for an explanation of the use of a military-grade nerve agent produced in Russia in the March 4 attack in the English city of Salisbury that left 66-year-old Sergei Skripal and his 33-year-old daughter Yulia in critical condition.

Lavrov told reporters on Tuesday Moscow's requests to see samples of the nerve agent have been turned down, which he called a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention, which outlaws the production of chemical weapons. He insisted that Russia is "not to blame" for the poisoning.

"We have already made a statement to say this is nonsense," he said. "We have nothing to do with this."

The rest here.

Russia demands access to nerve agent in ex-spy case standoff - World - CBC News
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
6,670
2
36
Vancouver, BC
I don't know about unreasonable, but it's certainly pointless. If Russia is responsible what are they going to do when the UK shows them the evidence? They're already denying it. Do they not know if they did it or not?
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
It is absolutely pointless. Both sides are playing to the cameras.

Had Britain been accused of attempting to kill one of their agents in Russia, what would come of it? The intelligence community follows their own path.
---

More playing for the cameras. What can the UK do? Nothing. It's bluster for UK citizens.
---

Britain Gives Russia 'Until Midnight' To Explain Use Of Nerve Agent
- Bill Chappell

British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said Tuesday that Russia has "until midnight tonight" to explain how a lethal Novichok nerve agent that was developed in Russia came to be used on U.K. soil. Johnson said Britain is preparing to take "commensurate but robust" action.

Reiterating British Prime Minister Theresa May's statement that it was "highly likely" Russia was to blame for the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, Johnson said, "the use of this nerve agent would represent the first use of nerve agents on the continent of Europe since the Second World War."

The rest here.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ia-until-midnight-to-explain-use-of-nerve-gas
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Russia demands ?

I thought Putin was finished with Little Rocket Man impression
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
they've got some nerve. ;)

Russians are cool people. No pun intended. I bet the Kremlin is ringing with laughter over the UK's demand for an answer. :lol: Putin has a sense of humour.

Isn't it nice that the UK is "givning them until midnight" for an answer. Oh, it's past that now. I'd best check BBC to see if they've invaded yet. :lol:
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
---
I don't think anyone expected Russia to respond to elizabeth May's demand for an answer by midnight. The deadline has passed. Nothing came from Moscow. Surprise!
---

Russia will not respond to UK's midnight ultimatum 'until it is given nerve agent samples'

'Any threats to take "sanctions" against Russia will not be left without a response'
Oliver Carroll, Samuel Osborne and agencies Moscow

Russia will not respond to Theresa May's midnight ultimatum over the poisoning of a former spy in Salisbury, the Russian foreign ministry has said, unless it is given samples of the nerve agent used in the attack.

In a statement, the foreign ministry said British threats to punish Moscow over the poisoning would not go unanswered, and described the allegations of Russian involvement as a provocation.

The UK Prime Minister had given Russia until midnight on Tuesday to explain why a Soviet-era nerve agent, produced in Russia, was used in the attack on former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, who remain in a serious condition in hospital.

The rest here.

Russia will not respond to UK's midnight ultimatum 'until it is given nerve agent samples' | The Independent
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario


I wonder how frightened the Russians are? :lol:
---
Russian spy attack: PM prepares reprisals as deadline passes


May prepares to chair meeting of the national security council as she plans Moscow crackdown

Theresa May is preparing to chair a meeting of the national security council after the midnight deadline she set Moscow over the spy poisoning case passed.

The prime minister is preparing to set out a range of reprisals against the Russian state, including calls for fresh sanctions, visa bans and crackdowns on Russian money in the UK. She is expected to set out plans to build a coalition of international support – from the European Union, Nato and even the United Nations – to rein in Russia over time.

May will put her proposals to the national security committee on Wednesday before briefing MPs in a statement that could set the course for UK foreign policy for years to come.

Earlier on Tuesday Donald Trump, gave May his full support for her strategy of confronting Russia over the poisoning of double agent Sergei Skripal, saying he is “with the UK all the way”.

The US president’s backing came in a phone call after he had said that it was conditional on the facts supporting the British prime minister’s case. Downing Street said Trump had agreed that “the Russian government must provide unambiguous answers as to how this nerve agent came to be used”.

The rest here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/13/russian-spy-attack-trump-supports-uk-all-the-way
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
The Russians remain unconcerned, and continue to ask for evidence. Politics is a huge factor in stories like this, as always. Take note of the headline - France agrees with UK - but in the article you will find this statement from a French official

He (French presidential spokesman Benjamin Griveaux ) condemned “a very serious act against a British citizen on British soil”, describing Britain as “a strategic and historical ally of France”. However, he repeatedly refrained from accusing Russia of responsibility, saying France would “await the definitive conclusions” of the UK investigation and for facts to be “absolutely proven”.

So, France and other countries are "standing behind the UK" , but waiting for evidence. If the UK has it, release it, is what they are saying.

France agrees with UK that Russia to blame for spy nerve agent attack

After saying earlier that it needed proof of Russia’s involvement, President Macron’s office says there is “no other plausible explanation” and stands by its British ally.

France said on Thursday it agreed with Britain that Russia was behind a nerve agent attack on a Russian ex-spy in England, President Emmanuel Macron’s office said in a statement.

“Since the beginning of the week, the United Kingdom has kept France closely informed of the evidence gathered by British investigators and evidence of Russia’s responsibility in the attack,” the president’s Elysee office said, following a phone call between Macron and British Prime Minister Theresa May.

“France agrees with the United Kingdom that there is no other plausible explanation and reiterates its solidarity with its ally,” the statement said.

A few hours later on Thursday, France, Germany, the UK and the US released a joint statement blaming Russia for the attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury, southern England, saying the case "threatens the security of us all".

Russia, meanwhile, announced that it would soon expel British diplomats in retaliation for the UK's announcement on Wednesday. Moscow also denied that Russia or the Soviet Union had run a programme to develop the Novichok nerve gas which Britain says was used on its soil.

France's alignment with Britain over the case came after it had been accused by some sections of the British press of undermining the UK’s attempts to build a consensus over retaliation against Russia.

While earlier condemning the nerve agent attack and expressing solidarity with Britain, Paris had avoided blaming Russia directly.
----

France agrees with UK that Russia to blame for spy poison attack | Euronews
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,198
113
Well, Assad never did case his own folks, it was the US backed rebels, so it isn't like we haven't seen this play before.
;)
Wet, lather, rinse, dry...repeat.

Remember? The poison gas mixing thingies were actually discarded US cluster bomb casings.
Haha, then there is COLIN POWELL and his weather ballon ..I mean poison gas manufacturing...err...
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
I suppose the big question, in addition to who gassed the ex-patriot Russians, is when will the UK release its evidence proving it was the Russians?
---

The Russians are going to expel UK diplomats. This is getting good. Sort of like the old Cold War daze. It would be simple for the UK not to sound foolish, if they simply provided the world with proof rather than saying, "it cannot be anyone else..."

In the link, Russia addresses the UN Security Council.

Russia to expel British diplomats in response to UK's expulsion of spies over nerve agent attack

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov again says it is 'unacceptable' for UK to accuse Russia

Asked if Moscow was ready to kick out British diplomats in retaliation, Mr Lavrov said "Absolutely. Soon," according to the RIA news agency.

Follow live fallout from the UK-Russia row

And in an apparent criticism of the way Ms May unveiled a series of measures against Russia in Parliament on Wednesday, Mr Lavrov said Russia would first inform the British government first about an retaliatory action before revealing them to the wider public.

In comments on Thursday morning, the UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson expanded on Ms May's statement, saying the evidence of Russian guilt was "overwhelming" because only Moscow had access to the poison and also a motive for harming Mr Skripal.

Ratcheting up the rhetoric, he told the BBC: "There is something in the kind of smug, sarcastic response that we're heard from the Russians that to me betokens their fundamental guilt.

The rest here.

Russia to expel British diplomats in response to UK's expulsion of spies over nerve agent attack | The Independent
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
---
More on Russia's decision to expel UK diplomats. No proof has been provided by the UK as of today. According to ABC News, the US may have been the source of the agent. See below for link.

Russia says it will expel British diplomats from Moscow 'soon' in retaliation against UK

Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has chaired a meeting of his security council in Moscow to discuss how to retaliate against the UK’s decision to expel 23 Russian diplomats from London. Sergei Lavrov, the foreign minister, said Russia would act soon.

According to the Russian news agency Tass, Putin will personally chose the retaliatory measures Moscow takes against the UK. Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said:

A final decision [on retaliatory measures] will, of course, be made by the Russian president. There is no doubt that he will choose the variant that best of all corresponds to the interests of the Russian Federation.

Peskov also said that Russia is “perplexed and does not comprehend the British leadership’s stance” and insisted the “accusations are unsubstantiated”.
---

Jeremy Corbyn (Leader of the Opposition) has said the “evidence points to Russia”, but declined to say that he believes the Russian state was directly responsible for the nerve agent attack in Salisbury. (See 2.52pm.) His words put him at odds with some members of his shadow cabinet who have said they think the Russian government ordered the attack.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-despite-russian-spy-poisoning-politics-live
---

According to a report by ABC news,

"A Russian lawmaker is suggesting that the nerve agent used on a former Russian double agent and his daughter in Britain may have been obtained via the United States.

The U.S. was involved in cleaning up a site where the nerve agent, Novichok, was thought to have been used during the Soviet era."

The Latest: Russian lawmaker: US had access to nerve agent - ABC News

The the Brits would provide proof, they would be in the clear.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,908
1,905
113
UK Defence Secretary tells Russia 'go away and shut up'

15 March 2018
BBC News



UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson urged Russia to "go away" and "shut up" as he unveiled plans for a new chemical weapons "defence centre".

He made the comments as he announced a £48m investment in a facility that will be located at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory in Porton Down.

Scientists at the Wiltshire lab helped identify the nerve agent used to attack ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal.

Russia said his comments demonstrated his "intellectual impotence".

In a speech on Thursday, Mr Williamson said the "shocking and reckless" attack on Mr Skripal and his daughter illustrated the increasing dangers the UK faced from chemical weapons.

Mr Williamson said there was "no doubt the attack came from Russia".

The UK is expelling 23 Russian diplomats and taking a range of other measures in response to what it said was the Russian state's culpability for the use of a military grade nerve agent on the duo in Salisbury.


Nuclear submarine HMS Trenchant breaks through the ice after Britain sent it to the Arctic in response to the Skripal poisoning

Moscow has hit out at what it described as the UK's unacceptable provocations and threatened reprisals. It has denied involvement.

In questions after the speech Mr Williamson was asked what further measures the UK would take if Russia expelled British diplomats.

He said: "We will look at how Russia responds to what we've done.

"It's absolutely atrocious and outrageous what Russia did in Salisbury - we've responded to that. Frankly, Russia should go away - it should shut up.

"But if they do respond to the action we have taken, we'll consider it carefully and we'll look at our options. But it would be wrong to prejudge their response."

Asked if the situation could lead to a new Cold War, Mr Williamson said that it had been described as a "cool war", adding: "Let's face it, relations aren't good, are they?"


The Defence Secretary has announced a £48m investment in a facility that will be located at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory in Porton Down near Salisbury

Mr Williamson said the UK leads the world in research into chemical, biological and radiological warfare but said this expertise needed to be developed further to confront potential hostile activity by states and individuals.

"We know the chemical threat doesn't just come from Russia but from others," he said.

"I can announce we will be strengthening this capability by investing £48m in a new Chemical Weapons Defence Centre to ensure we maintain our cutting edge in chemical analysis and defence."

'Boorish statement'

But Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov criticised Mr Williamson's "boorish statement" as showing an "extreme level of intellectual impotence".

"All of this not only confirms the fact that London's accusations against Russia, which we have heard over the previous few years amount to nothing, but also the complete insignificance of the accusers themselves."

He added: "Russia long ago developed a strong immunity to London's fake accusations towards Russia."

On his visit to Porton Down, Mr Williamson also announced that, as a precaution, thousands of British troops would be offered vaccinations against anthrax, a spore-producing bacterial disease used in a series of bio-terror attacks in the US in 2001.

British troops who are held at high-readiness will be offered the vaccine on a voluntary basis so they are ready to deploy to areas where the risk of this type of attack exists.

Mr Williamson, who took over the role in November, is currently reviewing Britain's defences amid calls from Conservative MPs for a moratorium on cuts to the armed forces and defence capability.

The BBC's defence correspondent Jonathan Beale said Mr Williamson was making clear that Britain must invest more in defence to counter both conventional and emerging threats like cyber warfare.

"As Brexit beckons, the eyes of the world are on us. Rest assured our adversaries will be watching even more closely than our allies," Mr Williamson said.

"This is our moment to retain our competitive advantage."

The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory supplies specialist science and technology services to the armed forces as well as expert advice and analysis to government.

UK defence secretary tells Russia 'go away and shut up' - BBC News

Spy poisoning: Putin most likely behind attack - Johnson

16 March 2018
BBC News


"Our quarrel is with Putin's Kremlin," Boris Johnson says


Russian President Vladimir Putin is "overwhelmingly likely" to have ordered the nerve agent attack on an ex-spy and his daughter, Boris Johnson has said.

The foreign secretary said "our quarrel is with Putin's Kremlin, and with his decision" over the Salisbury incident.

Russia denies involvement and said the accusations against Mr Putin were "shocking and unforgivable".

Meanwhile, the head of Nato told the BBC that Russia has underestimated the "resolve and unity" of the UK's allies.

Speaking during a visit to a west London military museum with the Polish foreign minister, Mr Johnson said the UK's "quarrel is with Putin's Kremlin".

"We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK, on the streets of Europe, for the first time since the Second World War," he said.

'UK is not alone'

Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia Skripal, 33, remain critically ill in hospital, after they were found unconscious on a bench in the Wiltshire city on 4 March.

The UK government says they were poisoned with a nerve agent of a type developed by Russia called Novichok (Newcomer), and PM Theresa May said she believed Moscow was "culpable".


Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, are in a critical condition in hospital

Mrs May has said the UK will expel 23 Russian diplomats as part of a "full and robust" response - prompting Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to say it will "certainly" expel British diplomats in response.

Russia's investigative committee said it had opened a criminal case investigation into the "attempted murder" of Ms Skripal and "the murder" of Nikolai Glushkov, a Russian exile who was found dead in his home in London on Monday.

According to Russian news agency Tass, the Russian ambassador to Britain, Alexander Yakovenko, said the UK claimed the nerve agent used was A-234, but this has not been confirmed.

A Downing Street spokesman said the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has been invited to come to the UK to take a sample of the nerve agent - that process is expected to begin "imminently".

On Friday, Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said the alliance had "no reason to doubt the findings and assessments by the British government" which suggested Russian responsibility.

He said the "UK is not alone" and Nato allies gave "strong political support" to Britain, following a joint statement from the US, France and Germany backing Mrs May's government and a pledge of support from Australia.

Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Stoltenberg said the incident was part of a "pattern of reckless behaviour" from Russia, following allegations of cyber attacks and election meddling in recent years.


Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said the "UK is not alone" and Nato allies gave "strong political support" to Britain, following a joint statement from the US, France and Germany backing Mrs May's government and a pledge of support from Australia

"It is important that Russia gets a clear signal that it costs to behave the way they behave," Mr Stoltenberg said.

"I'm absolutely certain that Russia has underestimated the resolve and unity of Nato allies when we have implemented different kinds of sanctions over the last years," Mr Stoltenberg added.

But Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia was not worried by international expressions of support for the UK and challenged Britain to "provide some confirmation".

He said: "Sooner or later, the British will have to show some proof to those 'colleagues' who say they are with UK on this; sooner or later will have to stand up its accusations."

Ahead of an EU leaders' summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said discussions of a potential boycott of the World Cup in Russia are "not an immediate priority".

It comes as Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has written in the Guardian warning against "hasty judgements", and not to "rush ahead of the evidence".

No symptoms

Wiltshire Police said 131 people had been identified as potentially being exposed to the nerve agent - but none has shown any symptoms.

Salisbury District Hospital has also assessed 46 people who came forward expressing health concerns but they were not admitted.

In a letter to the Times, Salisbury NHS Trust emergency medical consultant Stephen Davies said only three people - the Skripals and Det Sgt Nick Bailey - had needed treatment.

Det Sgt Bailey remains in a serious but stable condition in hospital after being contaminated with the chemical.

Public Health England said the risk posed to the public remains low but they repeated their advice for anyone who had been to the Mill pub or Zizzi to wash their clothes and possessions.

A spokesperson said while it was clear a "significant dose" could have a "serious immediate effect", anyone in either venue "could only have been exposed to extremely small traces" and no further cases of illness have been reported.

Analysis: Was chemical A-234 used?

By Gordon Corera, BBC security correspondent

The implication of the ambassador's comments is that the Russians have been told by the British the exact nerve agent deployed.

So far, British officials have not confirmed that they have communicated this to Moscow or that A-234 was the exact agent deployed.

Based on public sources, A-234 is one of the Novichok family of agents.

It has been reported that it is at least five to eight and possibly 10 times as strong as VX.

Little is known about it but the symptoms are very similar to those which eyewitnesses attributed to Sergei and Yulia Skripal.

In military handbooks it is described as a "delayed casualty agent" - its persistence depends upon how it is used, as well as the weather.

Spy poisoning: Putin most likely behind attack - Johnson - BBC News
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,198
113
This is just another NAZI false flag.

BRITAIN IS MOST LIKELY BEHIND THIS FAKENEWS BS, just like with assad and everyone else they do this to to justify starting wars.

THERESA MAY SHOULD BE HUNG FOR BEING a GENOCIDAL LIAR!

BTW, Trump offered support, BUT he is WAITING FOR PROOF DEARIES

Who cares about the size of the OWNED gang
WHERE IS THE PROOF?
 

justlooking

Council Member
May 19, 2017
1,312
3
36
The the Brits would provide proof, they would be in the clear.

Right now, they still cant tell where the 2 russkies got infected.

13 days on and police still have no idea how Russian agent and his daughter were poisoned - as they reveal 131 local people came into contact with nerve agent and restaurant and pub they visited will be closed for months


  • Sergei Skripal may have been poisoned after it was put in daughter's suitcase
  • Novichok could be inside cosmetics or gift then opened in her father's house
  • Detectives have still not said how Sergei and his daughter Yulia were poisoned
  • Zizzi restaurant and Mill pub they visited that night will be shut for months
  • Police fear 131 people may have been in contact with the deadly nerve agent
  • They have not developed symptoms but are monitored via daily phone calls
  • PM in Salisbury after biggest expulsion of Russian embassy staff since Cold War
  • Russians living in the UK have beefed up their security after Salisbury poisoning
  • Weapons expert tells MailOnline police must hunt for 'minute' trace of Novichok

So the Russians have titted for tatted, no surprise really.

Putin hits back: Russia expels 23 UK diplomats, orders closure of British Council in Moscow and warns of further measures if Britain makes more 'hostile steps' in tit-for-tat retaliation over spy nerve agent attack


  • Sergei and Yulia Skripal were found slumped on a Salisbury bench on March 4
  • Boris Johnson said was 'overwhelmingly likely' Putin ordered use of nerve agent
  • The Prime Minister expelled 23 Russian diplomats from the UK earlier this week
  • Diplomatic tensions between Britain and Russia have heightened in recent days