Russia, China veto UN Syria resolution
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
Who?? Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC)
Whatever that means, since I don't want any clarity I would appear to not have a problem with it, that alright?
I am against the Syrian government, not the Syrian people. Syria has been ruled by autocratic dictators who will commit any crime to retain their grip on power for as long as I can remember. I first became aware of Syria's problems when this was news:
The Hama massacre (Arabic: مجزرة حماة) occurred in February 1982, when the Syrian army, under the orders of the country's president, Hafez al-Assad, conducted a scorched earth operation against the town of Hama in order to quell a revolt by the Sunni Muslim community against the regime of al-Assad.[1] The Hama massacre, supervised in person by President Assad's younger brother, Rifaat al-Assad, effectively ended the campaign begun in 1976 by Sunni Islamic groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, against Assad's regime, whose leaders were disproportionately from president Assad's own Alawite sect.
Initial diplomatic reports from western countries stated that 1,000 were killed.[2][3] Subsequent estimates vary, with the lower estimates claiming that at least 10,000 Syrian citizens were killed,[4] while others put the number at 20,000 (Robert Fisk),[1] or 40,000 (Syrian Human Rights Committee).[5][6] About 1,000 Syrian soldiers were killed during the operation and large parts of the old city were destroyed. Alongside such few events as the Black September Massacre in Jordan,[7] the attack has been described as one of "the single deadliest acts by any Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East".[8] The vast majority of the victims were civilians.[9]
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When the dictator's son inherited control, I hoped that he would introduce democratic reforms. Instead he's proved himself to be as cruel as his father.
The Hama massacre (Arabic: مجزرة حماة) occurred in February 1982, when the Syrian army, under the orders of the country's president, Hafez al-Assad, conducted a scorched earth operation against the town of Hama in order to quell a revolt by the Sunni Muslim community against the regime of al-Assad.[1] The Hama massacre, supervised in person by President Assad's younger brother, Rifaat al-Assad, effectively ended the campaign begun in 1976 by Sunni Islamic groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, against Assad's regime, whose leaders were disproportionately from president Assad's own Alawite sect.
Initial diplomatic reports from western countries stated that 1,000 were killed.[2][3] Subsequent estimates vary, with the lower estimates claiming that at least 10,000 Syrian citizens were killed,[4] while others put the number at 20,000 (Robert Fisk),[1] or 40,000 (Syrian Human Rights Committee).[5][6] About 1,000 Syrian soldiers were killed during the operation and large parts of the old city were destroyed. Alongside such few events as the Black September Massacre in Jordan,[7] the attack has been described as one of "the single deadliest acts by any Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East".[8] The vast majority of the victims were civilians.[9]
wiki
When the dictator's son inherited control, I hoped that he would introduce democratic reforms. Instead he's proved himself to be as cruel as his father.
It would seem China's and Russia's argument concerns sovereignty:
BBC News - Syria resolution: The diplomatic train-wreck
How can we allow such excessive sovereignty in the modern world? I can understand China's and Russia's position, but certainly there must be a limit to sovereignty.
After initial anger on my part, reading the article I linked to above makes me a little more understanding of the Russian side and it does have some legitimate arguments for its decision. I still think we should get rid of vetos though.
BBC News - Syria resolution: The diplomatic train-wreck
How can we allow such excessive sovereignty in the modern world? I can understand China's and Russia's position, but certainly there must be a limit to sovereignty.
After initial anger on my part, reading the article I linked to above makes me a little more understanding of the Russian side and it does have some legitimate arguments for its decision. I still think we should get rid of vetos though.
You just mean for Russia and China, if their points had been considered before there wouldn't have even been a vote to veto.
The Russian veto has more to do with protecting their arm sales then anything. Sovereignty is just a convenient excuse for them to use.
I still disagree with Russia's and China's position, but after reading the article, I can respect it better. That still does not change the fact that no country ought to have a veto power in the first place.
but under the circumstances, seeing that they do have veto power, it might have made sense to consult with them first.
Russia already told the world it would use veto in support of Syria before NATO planes ever entered Libyan airspace.
Still waiting for how you arrived at the conclusion that Syrian / Canadian culture are not different?
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one
Our Canadian culture and society prove that people can co-exist peacefully regardless of race or religion. Syrians aren't that different from Canadians. Fundamentally most people are kind and compassionate. Syria just isn't as far along in its social evolution as Canada.
What do you base your experience on regarding Syrian culture, religion, history, corruption, power plays, massacres, revenge that goes back generations between sects, minorities within Syria. How Syrians have begun segregating according to religious sects for safety.
Or is the above just off the top of your head? Translation a simple minded observation.
Syria | Amnesty International
History of Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Syria: Maps, History, Geography, Government, Culture, Facts, Guide & Travel/Holidays/Cities — Infoplease.com
And now the Butcher
Hafez al-Assad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hama massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Syria: how the al-Assad family has dominated - Telegraph
We in the West would have more credibility when we get our shirts in knots, except we are far less than even handed.
The West covers a wide range of countries.
Note how the UN supports with monies from the west.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/21/world/asia/21china.html?pagewanted=all
At stake are hundreds of millions of dollars for programs to reduce the incidence of tuberculosis, prevent and treat H.I.V. infections and wipe out malaria. China has received $539 million from the Global Fund since 2003, according to the fund’s Web site. An additional $295 million is in the pipeline, making China the fund’s fourth largest recipient behind Ethiopia, India and Tanzania, one global health expert said.
The dispute may add to a growing debate among global health experts whether China, which spent an estimated $46 billion staging the 2008 Olympic games and last year’s Shanghai Expo and financed a $586 billion economic stimulus package, should be a recipient of such aid at all.
The fund, which has expanded to 150 countries since it was founded in 2002 as a pool for public and private donations to fight the world’s worst diseases, quietly decided to hold back payments from a major AIDS grant to China in November. It froze payments from other grants to China several weeks ago because of fresh concerns over lack of monitoring of funds.
Goober, I was referring to the US and its client state, Canada. O yes, and Britain when it has erotic dreams of past empire.
Tell that to anybody from Iraq, Afghanistan or a few places slightly north or there. How many parades did Libya throw the 'victors'?
Guess who trained them, Saddam was the US's bitch for the Iran/Iraq war, Afghanistan was the US's bitch for the war against the USSR. NATO in the Balkans was to prevent Russia expansion of influence and that area isn't very active, nor are the South American Death Squads that got their 'training on America soil' as active today as they once were(other than the DEA ones) but they were still bitches of the US Gov at one time. That type of Government is being phased out by the same people that saw it didn't work when you hands are directly involved, it works when your hands are on a desk several 1,000 miles away, that isn't a big surprise.
If you want to humiliate me show me all the well data for the wells that Saddam's forces blew up in the Kuwait invasion. That includes any 'updates' to now and especially now that slant drilling hole pattern are easy to spot from something like google-earth. (if one were so inclined and if it was even possible) Lab analysis of the product at the wellhead would show if it was coming from a 'common pool' or a 'different pool'. Lump all that together and have it accurate and I would have to accept that as being a fact not fiction and adjust my thinking accordingly, which means adopting you as an authority in what truth is. (yes the gag reflex did prevent me from typing that in one flow of letters). As it stands I doubt that data is ever going to be available which is different from it simply not existing for what that's worth.
If you want to humiliate me show me all the well data for the wells that Saddam's forces blew up in the Kuwait invasion. That includes any 'updates' to now and especially now that slant drilling hole pattern are easy to spot from something like google-earth. (if one were so inclined and if it was even possible) Lab analysis of the product at the wellhead would show if it was coming from a 'common pool' or a 'different pool'. Lump all that together and have it accurate and I would have to accept that as being a fact not fiction and adjust my thinking accordingly, which means adopting you as an authority in what truth is. (yes the gag reflex did prevent me from typing that in one flow of letters). As it stands I doubt that data is ever going to be available which is different from it simply not existing for what that's worth.