Role of government

[gopher]

Corporate welfare recipients won't want to lose their handouts from the politicians.

 

[countryboy]

Corporate welfare recipients won't want to lose their handouts from the politicians.

We used to have a guy named David Lewis who said the same thing. Well, actually he said "corporate welfare bums."

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Role of the Government of Canada

The role of Her Majesty’s Government for Canada is to provide for peace, order and good government for Canadians. It is also the role of the Government to ensure that through its decisions it performs and upholds the duties of the Sovereign, Her Majesty the Queen (i.e., to maintain the Sovereign-subject relationship by performing the Crown’s functions that form a part thereof, such as overseeing the maintenance of the Queen’s peace). It is imperative that the Government have the institutions, powers and resources necessary to perform these functions, and this does understandably require an elaborate framework and several levels of independent decision-making.

 

[Bar Sinister]

The way I read Walter's proposal was that government should set up the operating rules and guidelines, but not necessarily be the direct provider of all the services. There is some merit to that line of thinking. For example, have you ever sold anything to any government? The procedures are long and arduous, and the examples I've been involved show an extreme lack of efficieny in the purchasing...in many cases, the government pays more for a product than would the average consumer buying it "off the shelf." One of the reasons for this is the amount of "cost" involved in selling to such a giant, cumbersome organization...the paperwork, meeting standards that don't always make sense, and dealing with many different departments and individuals to get through the buying/selling process...it all translates into extra cost. And the government (us) pays the tab.

That, combined with a philosophy of not having "best price and performance" at the top of the government's priority list, should indicate that we - the taxpayers - are not necessarily getting the best 'bang for the buck' in many government-run situations.

The problem with contracting out services to private companies is that the rules are not necessarily set up for a clear understanding or an easy-to-manage operation. By the time the bureaucrats get finished with creating hundreds of pages of contractural obligations, "cover your butt" conditions, and "how to" instructions, nobody pays much attention to it anymore...too much work to interpret it all, and certainly too much to follow up on. If a government could confine itself to some simple "performance standards" that are meaningful and measurable, and then have a simple mechanism for following up, contracting of services would stand a chance of working better. For the taxpayers and their money.

Just a couple of thoughts there, but it's a big subject...

I wish you were right about Walt, but his reply to my post seems to indicate that my interpretation of his post was dead on.

 

[Bar Sinister]

All of them, except maybe fire and police but even those are debatable.

Sounds like you are very strongly in favour of a society oriented toward the wealthy. User pay societies work, but they always mean that those who have money get what they want and the average citizen gets what is left over. Frankly I prefer to live in a society in which every child is educated and where everyone receives medical treatment and other social necessities when they are needed rather than some developing country where only the rich get these things.

 

[Cliffy]

Sounds like you are very strongly in favour of a society oriented toward the wealthy. User pay societies work, but they always mean that those who have money get what they want and the average citizen gets what is left over. Frankly I prefer to live in a society in which every child is educated and where everyone receives medical treatment and other social necessities when they are needed rather than some developing country where only the rich get these things.

Walter is blowing smoke out his butt. If government was pared down the way he is saying, he would be out of a job. The last thing a government employee wants is downsizing.

 

[MHz]

The last thing a government employee wants is downsizing.

Better that than waiting for the drownsizing.

 

[Cliffy]

Better that than waiting for the drownsizing.

Nice Freudian slip. Drowning in their anxiety. Nice!;-)

 

[MHz]

More like bubbling tarsands. lol

 

[china]

Walter

They should be told to look after themselves.

they are ,Walter .....read the Canadian Constitution .

Thirst for Justice — Canada's Federal Income Tax is unconstitutional

Canada's Federal Income Tax is unconstitutional. The constitution gives the Federal Government the right to issue its own currency ...
www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/tax.htm - Cached - Similar

 

[china]

Liberalman,

The taxpayer wants the government to say yes or they will vote in another government that will say yes

The intelligent citizen of Canada pays no federal tax and has nothing to do what so ever with the government.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Liberalman,


The intelligent citizen of Canada pays no federal tax and has nothing to do what so ever with the government.

Actually intelligent citizens realize that someone must pay for the various services they expect and demand from government and have no objection to fair taxation.

BTW that nonsense about income tax being illegal was shot down long ago. If you don't believe that then try not paying it.

 

[china]

Bar Sinister

BTW that nonsense about income tax being illegal was shot down long ago.

Are you saying that Canadian Constitution has bin "shot down", changed ,rewritten or something ?
Do you know what the Canadian Constitution is ? Are you a Canadian and if so, how come you're so f .... ignorant of the fathers of this great country ?...are you a gutless liberal or something ?

If you don't believe that then try not paying it

I only pay what I believe that I am obliged to pay .I pay for what I purchase and I pay for sevices I receive from others .I pay my workers ,I reward them very handsomely. I also give allot to local charities ; wherever I might be .But one think I won,t do is to support some f....n political idiots whose only concern is to hold on to their gov. job.I think that 's what the great Canadian Constitution is tying to prevent.

PS

If you don't believe that then try not paying it.

I don't "try"things -I do it!

 

[Walter]

Frankly I prefer to live in a society in which every child is educated and where everyone receives medical treatment and other social necessities when they are needed

All these things can be done without the govenment providing the service. Start using your imagination; don't just reiterate the left's talking points.

 

[earth_as_one]

Government should be like a referee in a game; seen, but not involved unless there is an infraction of the rules; definitely not a player. It should look after currency, armed forces and transportation and that's about it. For the rest of the services we need it should set the regulations and guidelines but should not be involved as a provider.

What you are saying is that the government shouldn't run things with limited exceptions.

Those exceptions you list are areas where the government maintains a monopoly for common benefit. In all three examples: currency, military and transportation, the government has to provide these services because if any were controlled by a single person/corporation for selfish benefit, everyone else would suffer.

That's socialism. Don't worry, I'm not accusing you of being a "socialist". But you do have a socialist viewpoint in these areas and you recognize that socialist principles in certain situations can be beneficial.

In my opinion the government should also be a free provider of health, safety and education services. (hospitals, police, courts, prisons, schools/universities, fire, water/sewage...) As well a minimum living standard. (basic food, clothing, shelter..)

I also support socialist laws to protect personal rights and freedoms. (free speech, free religion, anti-discrimination, environment...)

This is not a black or white issue. Most socialist lefties support some level of capitalism.... with limits. Most right wing capitalists support some level of socialism.

Socialism isn't just for the benefit of the poor or sick, (or lazy drug addicts). Wealthy successful people benefit from low crime rates, healthy environment, educated workforce....

Pure capitalism isn't just selfish and greedy, its also stupid and short sighted.

 

[earth_as_one]

BTW, I own a corporation with two employees. I don't mind paying my taxes not just for the services I use, but also for the services I might need if I get sick or grow old.

I don't have a problem with paying taxes, in fact I wish it was easier to figure out what I owe. I do have a problem with government waste, inefficiency and corruption.

 

[Nuggler]

Reduce government by dissolving the Pentagon. After all, our Founding Fathers said no standing armies. Dunno about your founders, though.

Our founding fathers said: "Take two men out of that crowd and hang them"

:roll:

 

[ironsides]

Corporate welfare recipients won't want to lose their handouts from the politicians.

Should read lifetime welfare recipients won't want to lose their handouts from the politicians. Wonder what Sigmund would say about so many needy people. Separated from their mothers to soon? Who knows.

 

[darkbeaver]

Our founding fathers said: "Take two men out of that crowd and hang them"

:roll:

5P will put you on his majestys list Nuggler

 

[darkbeaver]

The role of government is to strangle rebellion in its crib and extract the kings taxes from the ignorant filthy masses.