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Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Poor choices of men mostly. No God involved absolutely.

Which "very spiritual places that were never great" do you reference, GFPB?

So, do you ever take responsibility for your life, or is everything just God's will?

What is your understanding of the metaphor in Psalm 23:4, TB?

As far as Popes go, the present one may restore the Catholic faith somewhat.

What is the Catholic faith, BB?

In the OP, BB, does the messenger invoke righteousness or religion? What is the difference?

In the OP, the messenger invokes righteousness. The difference - Scripture endorses righteousness.
 

bluebyrd35

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Aug 9, 2008
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"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:1-13 NIV)

Which word/concept is endorsed in the verses above, BB?
In my opinion, using the word love does NOT endorse the context it was used in. ie. Love never fails.......of course it does. How many parents have loved their children but lost them to drugs, car crashes, or war. Love fails. As for the first statement......if that were true, warning a stranger about an action that will injure or kill them, and prevent the accident, but done without loving, (love comes with knowing) does not make that warning a clanging symbol or worthless.

That is the whole problem with blanket statements, they simply cause confusion. These are flowery statements with no real meaning.

The Catholic faith is belief in a particular branch of Christianity. It is acceptance of Christian belief as interpreted by the elected head of that faith. If I were forced to choose a particular branch of Christianity that is more acceptable to me, it would that of the Gnostics. However, since I lean towards certain parts of many beliefs my moral code is uniquely mine.
 
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bluebyrd35

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Aug 9, 2008
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He is comparing three types of states of belief/feeling. Faith, is blind trust, hope, has no guarantee, but love when reciprocated is delightful. However, unlike the other two, it is a tangible feeling and produces many outcomes. Love between adults is different than between a parent and a child. Babies denied love after birth have been known to whither away and die. So it is somewhat essential to life, unlike faith or hope. Because the writer states an obvious fact, does not validate it. It needed no validation.

Since the love of a God/Spirit has not been proven essential to life, it is neither validated nor endorsed.
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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He is comparing three types of states of belief/feeling. Faith, is blind trust, hope, has no guarantee, but love when reciprocated is delightful. However, unlike the other two, it is a tangible feeling and produces many outcomes. Love between adults is different than between a parent and a child. Babies denied love after birth have been known to whither away and die. So it is somewhat essential to life, unlike faith or hope. Because the writer states an obvious fact, does not validate it. It needed no validation. Since the love of a God/Spirit has not been proven essential to life, it is neither validated nor endorsed.

Thanks for your thoughts, BB.

My literature and Bible professors all endorsed researching an author's context (personal life) as a first step in understanding an author's work. What do we know about the personal life of the writer of 1 Corinthians 13:1-13?
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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I was volunteering with the Southwest Idaho Medical Reserve Corps this afternoon at a teen disaster readiness camp when I read your most recent post.

https://www.facebook.com/southwestidmrc

The ReadyKamp campers all shared their disaster readiness knowledge and skills at a commencement event last night. It was very rewarding to me to witness their new disaster readiness confidence and competence, BB.
 
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bluebyrd35

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Aug 9, 2008
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I am certain that disaster readiness knowledge is great but it is not possible to prepare for every disaster that we contracted to deal with. Birth in this dimension is a test designed by ?? ourselves or ?? Being born into this reality is a test we have set, in my opinion by ourselves. How we handle those tests are what decides our next level of existence. If one prefers to feel a higher being is responsible for setting our trials, tribulations or our rewards and happiness is up to each individual In my opinion, being tossed out of Eden was the end of innocence and the beginning of taking responsibility for ourselves. If that is so, then the outcome of any life is and the decision of whether it was a success or failure is also up to ourselves. In my opinion, that is probably the worse outcome because, who else will be a more harsh judge?? Ourself or a push over God.?
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:1-13 NIV)

Which word/concept is endorsed in the verses above, BB?

"Love" is the word/concept endorsed in the verses above.

What was the context of the writer of 1 Corinthians 13:1-13?

Saul, now known as Paul was once a distinguished Jewish religiopolitical leader - a Pharisee. Presuming to be serving God, he actively persecuted Christians, even to death. A life-changing encounter with Jesus Christ eventually led Paul to bring the Christian message to the Gentiles. In Corinth, the believers were young in their faith and had fallen into spiritual competition. They contended over which gifts of the Spirit were more spiritual. In this context, Paul introduced the "love" message of 1 Corinthians 13.
 

bluebyrd35

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Aug 9, 2008
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I'm sorry but there have been so many revisions of the bible, it has become a contradiction from beginning to end. There are many gospels still existing that give a different picture of the times and events. My opinion, Paul comes across rather poorly on the whole. He talks a great deal of love but his rules have brought untold misery to more than 1/2 of Christians..

Paul in Corinthians is not a friend of women 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 states: "As in all the churches of the holy one, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate even as the law says. If they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church."

That is not the example Jesus set, or is it?? His most powerful followers & close associates were women. But, He chose 12 male apostles in spite of this. Was Paul simply jealous of the attention given the strong women in Jesus's life?? The last supper does seem show a female amongst the apostles.
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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I'm sorry but there have been so many revisions of the bible, it has become a contradiction from beginning to end. There are many gospels still existing that give a different picture of the times and events. My opinion, Paul comes across rather poorly on the whole. He talks a great deal of love but his rules have brought untold misery to more than 1/2 of Christians..

Paul in Corinthians is not a friend of women 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 states: "As in all the churches of the holy one, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate even as the law says. If they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church."

That is not the example Jesus set, or is it?? His most powerful followers & close associates were women. But, He chose 12 male apostles in spite of this. Was Paul simply jealous of the attention given the strong women in Jesus's life?? The last supper does seem show a female amongst the apostles.

Appreciate your thoughts, BB. Blessed to learn that you're reading the Bible.
 

bluebyrd35

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Aug 9, 2008
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Appreciate your thoughts, BB. Blessed to learn that you're reading the Bible.
My word, the nutters are following ME about. The world is full of those.LOL. Well, I have been followed by some very interesting people and these come up lacking.

Anyway, I read the bible through many times over my very early years and, I feel, there was a man named Jesus who had the guts and the political smarts to try to put humans on a better path. But, it was a man from that time and spoke for those of that time. The path is not a suitable guide for this day and age.

I want someone to show me the best path I should follow, but in the end, I guess that would defeat the main purpose of life. Each of us must find the best route specifically unique to each of us.

Petros, JLM and DaSleeper, In my opinion, you are putting yourselves on the boomerang list. That is the universal list of "you reap what you sow" Not my style but there are still a great many souls who are still stacking up experiences for the future.
 
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Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
My word, the nutters are following ME about. The world is full of those.LOL. Well, I have been followed by some very interesting people and these come up lacking.

Anyway, I read the bible through many times over my very early years and, I feel, there was a man named Jesus who had the guts and the political smarts to try to put humans on a better path. But, it was a man from that time and spoke for those of that time. The path is not a suitable guide for this day and age.

I want someone to show me the best path I should follow, but in the end, I guess that would defeat the main purpose of life. Each of us must find the best route specifically unique to each of us.

Petros, JLM and DaSleeper, In my opinion, you are putting yourselves on the boomerang list. That is the universal list of "you reap what you sow" Not my style but there are still a great many souls who are still stacking up experiences for the future.

"Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness." (James 3:18 NIV) We've returned to the OP and the topic of righteousness. What is righteousness and how do we experience it?
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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"Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness." (James 3:18 NIV) We've returned to the OP and the topic of righteousness. What is righteousness and how do we experience it?

righteousness (n.)
Old English rehtwisnisse; see righteous + -ness.
righteous (adj.)
early 16c. alteration of rightwise, from Old English rihtwis, from riht (see right) + wis "wise, way, manner" (see wise (adj.)). Suffix altered by influence of courteous, etc. Meaning "genuine, excellent" is 1942 in jazz slang. Related: Righteously.
Online Etymology Dictionary

Righteousness is defined etymologically as wisdom, genuineness and excellence in way or manner. So righteousness is ideal conduct.

How is ideal conduct determined? achieved?
 
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