respect elders or not?

Bcool

Dilettante
Aug 5, 2010
383
2
18
Vancouver Island B.C.
i'm 71, but my mind doesn't seem to know that fact, and I am respectful to many old people, and
treat them very graciously, and when I think about it, some of them were probably younger than I.
my mind is back there in the 40's age somewhere.

lol


thats OK, I'll live with that.
but hey, wait a minute, i'm married to an old guy who is 72, oh well, I think of him as somewhere
in the 40's too, so that's cool.
I can soo relate to this! Although I am waaay younger than you, talloola - a whole two years younger. LOL Also married to an old geezer of 71, how'd that happen?!!

I also find myself unthinkingly holding a door open, or standing aside, for some youngster of fifty or so, my mind being in the twenty or thirty year old zone of me for some reason at the time. My! Some of them can get downright hostile, have you noticed? :::chuckle:::

The young un's here could never get it, but while the disadvantages can be irksome at times, the advantages of being irresponsible, answerable to no-one and free to be as daft as you want are pretty awesome. Naps and snacks are way better too & flirting is still as much if not more fun seeing as no-one has the energy to take it seriously. ;-)
 

critter171

Hey all from the USA
Feb 24, 2010
318
2
18
38
Usa, New hampshire
My outlook is pretty similar to Talloola's but I temper it down to mean:

a) be polite to older people you know nothing about, even in the most mundane things like holding a door for them, letting them have the right of way in the grocery store, etc.

b) until they prove themselves an idiot, rude or otherwise unworthy of that respect, give them the benefit of the doubt.

a. Why should i if they don't get the whole thing how is it they know more or think they know more without knowing or asking me.

b. i disagree as i am not a type of person to give free "respect out no matter what age"

I was taught to respect elders, and for a very long time I did. However, when I came to be a young adult ... I discovered that some elders were slobbering drunks, liars, thieves, and despicable people. At that point, I decided that age is not enough to justify respect ... creeps that are young eventually become creeps that are old. Bad character is not purified through age, it is made worse.
actually how i feel but i been just doing it longer :violent1:


That's how I interpret respecting your elders too.

As people age, they tend to slow down, experience pain and incontinence... and other indignities... I invite my elders go in front of me in a line up, hold the door open for them, smile and basically acknowledge their existence. I've learned a lot over the years from people who fought in wars, survived the depression era, worked in mines under dreadful conditions... Life used to be a lot more difficult. Also when these people die, we loose witnesses to history.
List of surviving veterans of World War I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Consider it a form of social payback, for the people who fed you and changed your diapers when you were a baby. Hopefully one day you'll grow old too and it'll be your turn to be treated with respect by default.

Societies are judged by the compassion and kindness to the weak and feeble. This toothless skull from an ancient ancestor may prove that compassion and respect for the elderly is an early human characteristic:
Toothless Skull Raises Questions about Compassion among Human Ancestors: Scientific American

Life might of been more harder back than but that is not our fault or our problem, the problem with what your saying i bold is that i hold every door i can for everyone. I am one of the nicest person on the planet but you piss me off you get my a$$ side and trust me sometimes its not pretty :boxing:

I'm going to assume, since you didn't bold anything in my post, that you are addressing the initial sentences of my post.

People can LOSE my respect by being asses, but, I don't start assuming they don't deserve respect. I start each person out assuming they deserve my best. THAT is how you earn respect in return.

I don't assume people don't deserve respect, i need to see them do something in a respectful way before i give them respect. You are suppose to earn respect... that the idea.. you don't give it.

One of my best experience with young whippersnappers was a couple of years ago visiting my daughter in Toronto...after supper...I took a walk up Mt Pleasant to Eglington had a beer at an outdoor pub there and was on my way back to my daughter's place when I noticed a bunch of older teenagers(a dozen or two) waiting for a movie theater to open and they were acting out as teenagers will, pushing and teasing each other.
I contemplated crossing the steet, but with the traffic I would have had to go back to a set of lights
As I was getting real close to the group on the edge of the sidewalk close to the street one of the boys who noticed me coming jokingly pushed another kid out of the way and said "hey this guy is trying to come through"..and they all cleared a path for me to go through
As I went through I said tank you to the first kid with a smile to the others and went on my merry way.

There are still some well behaved kids in this world:smile:

Yup there also nice people around. you just got to find them ;)

I see your logic train is a tad off the rails - and yes I would qualify as getting on to be an elder - If I live so long

You want everyone else to give you respect first - then and only then do you offer respect in return -

So tell me how you earn it when others have to provide it firstly to you.

Showing repsect to others will gain respect for you from people who only see what and how you act and not even know you - Were you aware of that?

As to your other post about being an asshxloe - we all can do that at any age - the trick is as you get older, you try to do less of it.

acutally as i said above if you can fidn it. they can show some respect on asking me nicely to help or get something for them
like this lady who has a cane and a walker who lives below me. she very sweet and talktive and she drop some drink under her car she ask me if i could get it.

i did help her without a problem. that how she show me some repsect. that why i give her respect.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
a.





I don't assume people don't deserve respect, i need to see them do something in a respectful way before i give them respect. You are suppose to earn respect... that the idea.. you don't give it.



Yup there also nice people around. you just got to find them ;)



acutally as i said above if you can fidn it. they can show some respect on asking me nicely to help or get something for them
like this lady who has a cane and a walker who lives below me. she very sweet and talktive and she drop some drink under her car she ask me if i could get it.

i did help her without a problem. that how she show me some repsect. that why i give her respect.

No Critter you Don't Get it - You want it first - then you will return it - Guess you did not read my post - As to the old lady you mention, she should not have had to ask - You should have done that without being asked - That what you describe clearly shows how you treat people - They must pay you first then and only then do you pay.

Man you are some kinda slow on the uptake.

You gain respect by actions, what you do, how you do it and yes that includes giving respect first -

And PS - They did not get old, well not all of them by being dumb - age has a tendency to teach many people a variety of things - Experience is a great teacher if it is the right experience.

Lastly - manners - Refer to the elderly lady - You do not have them or that is how it appears.

And I really do not give a shiite about your bad side. Bluster, Blabber & BS - We all have a bad side - Or have you not figured that out yet?
 

CUBert

Time Out
Aug 15, 2010
1,259
2
38
Canada
Japan has a national holiday called "Respect for the Aged Day", which is actually coming up , on the 20th.
 

joanna73chen

New Member
Aug 30, 2010
24
0
1
www.flowerdiy.net
My point of view is "If I want to get respect, well then I need to give respect first. for exemple, you plant in spring ,then harvest in autumn." It is another matter for who should get respect. If he/she is a person who does some bad things,or is a person that do not respect me, well then I will be far away with that person until he/she learns and give the respect for me. I will try to help them when they actually need help, because they maybe know somethings and change their opinion that exist their mind. We should respect each other and that will be better.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
I can soo relate to this! Although I am waaay younger than you, talloola - a whole two years younger. LOL Also married to an old geezer of 71, how'd that happen?!!

I also find myself unthinkingly holding a door open, or standing aside, for some youngster of fifty or so, my mind being in the twenty or thirty year old zone of me for some reason at the time. My! Some of them can get downright hostile, have you noticed? :::chuckle:::

The young un's here could never get it, but while the disadvantages can be irksome at times, the advantages of being irresponsible, answerable to no-one and free to be as daft as you want are pretty awesome. Naps and snacks are way better too & flirting is still as much if not more fun seeing as no-one has the energy to take it seriously. ;-)

what makes me snicker, is all the younger posters ,(30 to 45age group) who refer to people our age as though we need a helping hand,
are too old to make much sense, way over the hill, can't remember our own names, and you and I both know
that we are at a stage in our lives that is so smooth and satisfying, confident, non stress, move around
at our own speed, and do what we want, when we want. it is what everyone works all their lives to do,
and we are doing it, and they feel sorry for us??????????????????? lol lol
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
YOu must have heard of people "mellowing" as they age. Speaking from the point of view of an old codger a lot of us do get a little testy at times- too much stuff taken for granted by the younger generation and not a hell of a lot of gratitude. But a lot of that was our fault too, as we spoiled them rotten. :lol::lol:

You make a good point ... people do mellow for the most part. I have noticed a couple people aging rather poorly in the sense that they're single, have pretty much everything they want, and yet somehow they are so miserable with themselves. They are becoming cranky, and a little off balance in the sense that they have become entirely inwardly focused - it's all about them. Some children may take too much for granted, but on the up side they make sure that their elders think about someone other than themselves.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
I don't assume people don't deserve respect, i need to see them do something in a respectful way before i give them respect. You are suppose to earn respect... that the idea.. you don't give it.

Ok...so.... for me to show any respect to you, I need to see you show respect. In the mean time, untill I see you show me some respect, then I don't show YOU any respect. I got it now.


actually as i said above if you can find it. they can show some respect on asking me nicely to help or get something for them
like this lady who has a cane and a walker who lives below me. she very sweet and talkative and she drop some drink under her car she ask me if i could get it.

i did help her without a problem. that how she show me some respect. that why i give her respect.

and you had to wait till she asked for help because................. to damn self centred and selfish to offer the help without being asked?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
what makes me snicker, is all the younger posters ,(30 to 45age group) who refer to people our age as though we need a helping hand,
are too old to make much sense, way over the hill, can't remember our own names, and you and I both know
that we are at a stage in our lives that is so smooth and satisfying, confident, non stress, move around
at our own speed, and do what we want, when we want. it is what everyone works all their lives to do,
and we are doing it, and they feel sorry for us??????????????????? lol lol
Talloola you got that right. It's funny. One of our posters suggested that age was a big handicap. I don't think so. My last chief engineer
was 92 years old when he retired and he regularly beat the can off the younger crowd in the office at tennis. You can't pick an age and say that by that age you will be handicapped.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
You make a good point ... people do mellow for the most part. I have noticed a couple people aging rather poorly in the sense that they're single, have pretty much everything they want, and yet somehow they are so miserable with themselves. They are becoming cranky, and a little off balance in the sense that they have become entirely inwardly focused - it's all about them. Some children may take too much for granted, but on the up side they make sure that their elders think about someone other than themselves.

we are in our 70s and 'finally' it is all about us, and we have earned that pleasure. Nothing has been
all about us since we were married. worked our butts off to build a house, worked hard all the time
raising four children, supported all the children when they had their children, helped grandchildren,
as parents worked all the time. NOW IT IS OUR TURN. We are having fun, and no one has to look after us,
we are fully self contained and independent and healthy, and do what we want when we want.
 

critter171

Hey all from the USA
Feb 24, 2010
318
2
18
38
Usa, New hampshire
We live on a First Nations Reserve, we are not Canadian Native, but my husband and I are still called and treated as Elders by the people here, especially the young adults, teens and children. It's a very old tradition amongst First Nations people, as it is in many countries that still preserve their traditional ways. It's very pleasant to be treated this way and we're honoured that they do so.

Some youngsters explained to us that Elders are not expected to "earn" respect, it is given to those old enough to be Elders. But an Elder who is not a good person and behaves badly towards others is still treated with politeness (unless its bad enough that the Band has to intervene) but does not get respect. Hard to explain, but there is a noticeable difference.

Very different off the Reserve, but on the whole young people are usually polite as I am to them. You said you want Elders to show you respect first before you'll respect them. Doesn't work that way. As has been said, you first respect someone who's made their way, a long way, through life - that's a tough battle as you'll find out. :smile: If you find they are not worthy of that respect - rude, violent, bad tempered, no respect to you, etc., then cool politeness and avoidance is all that's needed, not respect.

Good question. :smile:

acutely yes it does why should i ? tell me why.... i should.... so they had a tough life... everyone has a hard time in life times change.... and why would i want to be repsectful to many of the things elders did or believe in to much as of right now.

No Critter you Don't Get it - You want it first - then you will return it - Guess you did not read my post - As to the old lady you mention, she should not have had to ask - You should have done that without being asked - That what you describe clearly shows how you treat people - They must pay you first then and only then do you pay.

Man you are some kinda slow on the uptake.

You gain respect by actions, what you do, how you do it and yes that includes giving respect first -

And PS - They did not get old, well not all of them by being dumb - age has a tendency to teach many people a variety of things - Experience is a great teacher if it is the right experience.

Lastly - manners - Refer to the elderly lady - You do not have them or that is how it appears.

And I really do not give a shiite about your bad side. Bluster, Blabber & BS - We all have a bad side - Or have you not figured that out yet?

acutally i do... you just don't want to here or listen to what i say but that ok that your opioion and i am going to disagree with it. respect is earn end of story.

what makes me snicker, is all the younger posters ,(30 to 45age group) who refer to people our age as though we need a helping hand,
are too old to make much sense, way over the hill, can't remember our own names, and you and I both know
that we are at a stage in our lives that is so smooth and satisfying, confident, non stress, move around
at our own speed, and do what we want, when we want. it is what everyone works all their lives to do,
and we are doing it, and they feel sorry for us??????????????????? lol lol

I believe this is what i am afarid of doing in the future just feeling bad for people for no reason...
 

Bcool

Dilettante
Aug 5, 2010
383
2
18
Vancouver Island B.C.
acutely yes it does why should i ? tell me why.... i should.... so they had a tough life... everyone has a hard time in life times change.... and why would i want to be repsectful to many of the things elders did or believe in to much as of right now.

You asked for opinions actually in your first post or two. So I gave mine. Now you do not appear to be asking questions but stating your position on this topic of respect. You are now saying, I think, that you have a viewpoint, a firm belief, in how you believe you should behave and act towards elders as far as respect goes. If so, that's your choice.

We all have to take responsibility for our choices as well as be aware that some may disagree with the choices one makes.

So you will just have to accept that there are those of us here who disagree with your choice.

As you said:

acutally i do... you just don't want to here or listen to what i say but that ok that your opioion and i am going to disagree with it. respect is earn end of story.
Ok, respect is earned. You disagree with the majority here about how elders must show respect for you first before you can respect them. Not a generally acceptable choice at all, but you're free to make it and also free to accept the consequences,

Let me ask you a question: Would you please tell me what you mean by "respect"? If you and I met for the first time in real life, what would you expect me to say or do to show you respect first?

I really would like to know.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
You asked for opinions actually in your first post or two. So I gave mine. Now you do not appear to be asking questions but stating your position on this topic of respect. You are now saying, I think, that you have a viewpoint, a firm belief, in how you believe you should behave and act towards elders as far as respect goes. If so, that's your choice.

We all have to take responsibility for our choices as well as be aware that some may disagree with the choices one makes.

So you will just have to accept that there are those of us here who disagree with your choice.

As you said:

Ok, respect is earned. You disagree with the majority here about how elders must show respect for you first before you can respect them. Not a generally acceptable choice at all, but you're free to make it and also free to accept the consequences,

Let me ask you a question: Would you please tell me what you mean by "respect"? If you and I met for the first time in real life, what would you expect me to say or do to show you respect first?

I really would like to know.

Maybe a person should learn to write coherent English before he/she starts arguing. :lol:
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
we are in our 70s and 'finally' it is all about us, and we have earned that pleasure. Nothing has been all about us since we were married. worked our butts off to build a house, worked hard all the time raising four children, supported all the children when they had their children, helped grandchildren, as parents worked all the time. NOW IT IS OUR TURN. We are having fun, and no one has to look after us, we are fully self contained and independent and healthy, and do what we want when we want.

That's how it should be. I'm referring to men (as that's the only place I seen this trend) who are single (no woman was ever quite good enough) and just a little past the age of 50. They're set financially, and either don't work because they are no longer employable, or have no interest. They seem to become raging hypochondriacs (it's all about them). The stories they tell about doctors that won't treat their imaginary ailments (from colon cancer to neuropathic pain to anything that requires ativan or other addictive pharmaceuticals), or hypersensitivity to everything from paper used in magazines to the air we breath, are straight out of a comedy (although for them it's dreadfully serious). No conversation with these people, no matter how short, is complete without a long diatribe about their ailments, personal pharmacy, and incompetent doctors. This isn't a phase, this is something that seems to start in the late 40s, and, as years go by, it's their only point of focus ... an obsession that is entirely inwardly focused, off-balanced, and not normal. These are bright educated men who, throughout their lives, were not responsible for anyone but themselves, and, as they age, they are not interested or concerned about anyone but themselves. They are worthy of respect except for the fact that their only interest is in themselves ... which makes them less worthy of respect. They don't respect anyone and perceive almost everyone as beneath them. They're the creeps that nearly run people over in crosswalks, who flash the finger at someone that merges into their traffic lane, who push and shove to get what they want to the exclusion and detriment of all others.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
That's how it should be. I'm referring to men (as that's the only place I seen this trend) who are single (no woman was ever quite good enough) and just a little past the age of 50. They're set financially, and either don't work because they are no longer employable, or have no interest. They seem to become raging hypochondriacs (it's all about them). The stories they tell about doctors that won't treat their imaginary ailments (from colon cancer to neuropathic pain to anything that requires ativan or other addictive pharmaceuticals), or hypersensitivity to everything from paper used in magazines to the air we breath, are straight out of a comedy (although for them it's dreadfully serious). No conversation with these people, no matter how short, is complete without a long diatribe about their ailments, personal pharmacy, and incompetent doctors. This isn't a phase, this is something that seems to start in the late 40s, and, as years go by, it's their only point of focus ... an obsession that is entirely inwardly focused, off-balanced, and not normal. These are bright educated men who, throughout their lives, were not responsible for anyone but themselves, and, as they age, they are not interested or concerned about anyone but themselves. They are worthy of respect except for the fact that their only interest is in themselves ... which makes them less worthy of respect. They don't respect anyone and perceive almost everyone as beneath them. They're the creeps that nearly run people over in crosswalks, who flash the finger at someone that merges into their traffic lane, who push and shove to get what they want to the exclusion and detriment of all others.


Do you have any stats to back up your assertions or are you just going by personal experience from 1 or 2 over 50 single dickheads that you know?
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
what makes me snicker, is all the younger posters ,(30 to 45age group) who refer to people our age as though we need a helping hand,
are too old to make much sense, way over the hill, can't remember our own names, and you and I both know
that we are at a stage in our lives that is so smooth and satisfying, confident, non stress, move around
at our own speed, and do what we want, when we want. it is what everyone works all their lives to do,
and we are doing it, and they feel sorry for us??????????????????? lol lol

I have to agree. I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt ... sometimes more than I should. I assume they are honest, decent, well-intentioned people. It is through time and experience that the trust, and benefit of the doubt, is removed ... if and only if it was misplaced in the first place.

Do you have any stats to back up your assertions or are you just going by personal experience from 1 or 2 over 50 single dickheads that you know?

It's personal experience. I doubt there are any stats about the loopiness that some people (based on age, lifestyle, economic status, demographics) experience as they age. If you met these "dickheads" in their place of comfort, like an engineering seminar, you might think they were great guys ... but on a personal level ... they're weird and self-obsessed.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
That's how it should be. I'm referring to men (as that's the only place I seen this trend) who are single (no woman was ever quite good enough) and just a little past the age of 50. They're set financially, and either don't work because they are no longer employable, or have no interest. They seem to become raging hypochondriacs (it's all about them). The stories they tell about doctors that won't treat their imaginary ailments (from colon cancer to neuropathic pain to anything that requires ativan or other addictive pharmaceuticals), or hypersensitivity to everything from paper used in magazines to the air we breath, are straight out of a comedy (although for them it's dreadfully serious). No conversation with these people, no matter how short, is complete without a long diatribe about their ailments, personal pharmacy, and incompetent doctors. This isn't a phase, this is something that seems to start in the late 40s, and, as years go by, it's their only point of focus ... an obsession that is entirely inwardly focused, off-balanced, and not normal. These are bright educated men who, throughout their lives, were not responsible for anyone but themselves, and, as they age, they are not interested or concerned about anyone but themselves. They are worthy of respect except for the fact that their only interest is in themselves ... which makes them less worthy of respect. They don't respect anyone and perceive almost everyone as beneath them. They're the creeps that nearly run people over in crosswalks, who flash the finger at someone that merges into their traffic lane, who push and shove to get what they want to the exclusion and detriment of all others.

It's grossly unfair to take an entire segment of society (politicians and lawyers excepted) and tar them with the same brush. When it comes to faults I see them pretty well equally distributed between men and women, with possibly men a little more guilty of acts of omission and women a little more guilty of acts of commission. Everything totalled up I'd say they are equal. :smile::smile:

Do you have any stats to back up your assertions or are you just going by personal experience from 1 or 2 over 50 single dickheads that you know?

She's just blowing smoke, Gerry and I find the fumes a little noxious. :lol::lol::lol:
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
what makes me snicker, is all the younger posters ,(30 to 45age group) who refer to people our age as though we need a helping hand,
are too old to make much sense, way over the hill, can't remember our own names, and you and I both know
that we are at a stage in our lives that is so smooth and satisfying, confident, non stress, move around
at our own speed, and do what we want, when we want. it is what everyone works all their lives to do,
and we are doing it, and they feel sorry for us??????????????????? lol lol

Lots of the people 30-45 weren't necessarily referring to your age group though (not sure which comments exactly drew your frustration). I know I referred to a generation gap in understanding, not physical or mental ability, and when I discussed physical frailty, it was as a secondary factor. Most people in their 70's I know go like gangbusters still. My paternal grandmother is one exception, as since her surgery last year, after a life time of smoking and drinking in great excess, she's really not doing well. But that's a factor of lifestyle moreso than age. My grandparents on my maternal side though, also in their 70's, when they show up grandpa drags me out for a walk so grandma can clean my house in peace (she's a wee bit OCD). LOL.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I have to agree. I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt ... sometimes more than I should. I assume they are honest, decent, well-intentioned people. It is through time and experience that the trust, and benefit of the doubt, is removed ... if and only if it was misplaced in the first place.



.

Ummmmm- perhaps everyone except aging men. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

critter171

Hey all from the USA
Feb 24, 2010
318
2
18
38
Usa, New hampshire
It's grossly unfair to take an entire segment of society (politicians and lawyers excepted) and tar them with the same brush. When it comes to faults I see them pretty well equally distributed between men and women, with possibly men a little more guilty of acts of omission and women a little more guilty of acts of commission. Everything totalled up I'd say they are equal. :smile::smile:



She's just blowing smoke, Gerry and I find the fumes a little noxious. :lol::lol::lol:

first i am a guy second i already said more than once... i used more than 4-5 people.
i can go on and continue talking about it. Not to metion the people i work at were very nice and came up to me and intrdouce themselfs? when have people ever done that in other jobs i had? never...

I had enouggh respect when i was in a movie theather i work for i went to the other location and explain to them that i did work at one of them. teh guy told me "thank you" that movie theather is now gone. But i go out of my way to give people a heads up young or old.