Remembrance Day

[JLM]

"WWI was supposed to be the "war to end all wars", yet we are STILL killing people for the SAME reasons givin for having to fight the "war to end all wars". How many innocents need to be killed to ensure YOUR freedom? How many innocents need to be killed before YOU say enough is enough? How many innocents need to be killed before full payment has been made?"

Gerry, I'm going to try to answer your question as I see it, not that it's much use as long as you are adamant about sticking to your preconceived ideas. I doubt very much if there will EVER be an end to war. As I've said before as we become more civilized, the human beings genes have been programmed to some basic actions and reactions, hunting, domineering, conquering, acquiring. Maybe the people who fought the W.W.s learned something, but I doubt if the descendents learned very much except that when you are invaded you fight back and win or you end up at places like Aushwitz. Death is a fact of life, Gerry, not just confined to war. What about the small child who lies in hospital, screaming from the pain of spinal meningitis for days and weeks before finally he/she is mercifully taken? What would you suggest we do to avoid war, kowtow to the likes of the Tallyban and Alqaida. How do YOU proposed we achieve peace with these savages? Now I've answered your question, please have the courtesy to answer mine.

 

[Cannuck]

What about the small child who lies in hospital, screaming from the pain of spinal meningitis for days and weeks before finally he/she is mercifully taken?

Gerry fears death. That is why he would rather live as a slave and why he thinks being killed is such a horrible thing. Oddly enough, that kind of thinking is pretty common among religious folks.

For me it's about life and whether or not one values life and the experience of living ones life to the fullest. While we (western civilization) may not be perfect, we do tend to value the human experience and that is why more people want to live in the western world than anywhere else. It was why so many people were willing to risk death trying to make it across the Berlin Wall from east to west while practically nobody wanted to go the other way.

 

[gerryh]

well...isn't that special...cannuck can answer for me......saves me time and energy I guess..... from now on, please direct any questions about me or mine to cannuck.

 

[Cannuck]

well...isn't that special...cannuck can answer for me.

Yes I can. You are pretty transparent.

 

[AnnaG]

I never asked them to. Nobody came to me and asked if I wanted this, if they had, I would have said no. So don't be sticking the deaths that THEY are causeing or that you are cheering about on my head. If you f*cking morons want to go out and kill each other, have at it, but stop killing those that have not taken up arms. I do NOT accept the excuses of "colateral damage" or "people die in war", cop outs both and shows how little respect you all have for anyones life aside from your own.

I do NOT accept that war is a viable option for ANYTHING. I do NOT accept that killing someone else solves ANYTHING. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that war has NOT solved a damn thing and does NOT promote nor does it create or bring peace.

So you would do what if someone threatened your family? Stand there and refuse to kill the aggressor? You would not kill under any circumstances? A suicide bomber walks into your house while you are having a family reunion. You'd watch the guy hit the detonator?:roll:

 

[TenPenny]

Gerry, I'm going to try to answer your question as I see it, not that it's much use as long as you are adamant about sticking to your preconceived ideas. I doubt very much if there will EVER be an end to war. As I've said before as we become more civilized, the human beings genes have been programmed to some basic actions and reactions, hunting, domineering, conquering, acquiring.

Exactly the point I made about large families, workplaces, and university dorms, but gerryh believes we can all live in peace and harmony just by wishing it were so.

Would that involve yogic flying, too?

 

[AnnaG]

Better go do that then gerry, because that's what it costs. That's what it's always cost, and until this sorry species comes to its senses and grows up, that will continue to be the cost.

Pete Seeger got it right:

The fascists came with chains and war
To prison us in hate.
And many a good man fought and died
To save the stricken faith.

And now again the madmen come,
And should our vic'try fail?
There is no vic'try in a land
Where free men go to jail.

Isn't this a time!
Isn't this a time!
A time to try the soul of man,
Isn't this a terrible time?

Peter Paul and Mary recorded that in the 1960s with a difference verse:

The wars are long, the peace is frail
The madmen come again
There is no freedom in a land
Where fear and hate prevail.

It's because of those madmen and fascists of various stripes that sometimes its necessary to fight. The cost of that is that people will die, and it behooves us to remember them and what they did.

.... and be grateful for it as well as being sorrowful for the innocents that were lost.

 

[Colpy]

I never asked them to. Nobody came to me and asked if I wanted this, if they had, I would have said no. So don't be sticking the deaths that THEY are causeing or that you are cheering about on my head. If you f*cking morons want to go out and kill each other, have at it, but stop killing those that have not taken up arms. I do NOT accept the excuses of "colateral damage" or "people die in war", cop outs both and shows how little respect you all have for anyones life aside from your own.

I do NOT accept that war is a viable option for ANYTHING. I do NOT accept that killing someone else solves ANYTHING. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that war has NOT solved a damn thing and does NOT promote nor does it create or bring peace.

Okayyyyyy....

That shows a unique talent for ignoring the obvious.....

Just in the last 7 decades.....without us having fought, you would today be celebrating the 77th year of the Thousand Year Reich.

Well, no you wouldn't.....you would probably have long since been gassed and baked.......even if you do fit the racial requirement for survival, I doubt you are politically acceptable.........

There are worse things than war. Not many, but I would say murderous tyranny without end qualifies..........

 

[Colpy]

Better go do that then gerry, because that's what it costs. That's what it's always cost, and until this sorry species comes to its senses and grows up, that will continue to be the cost.

Pete Seeger got it right:

The fascists came with chains and war
To prison us in hate.
And many a good man fought and died
To save the stricken faith.

And now again the madmen come,
And should our vic'try fail?
There is no vic'try in a land
Where free men go to jail.

Isn't this a time!
Isn't this a time!
A time to try the soul of man,
Isn't this a terrible time?

Peter Paul and Mary recorded that in the 1960s with a difference verse:

The wars are long, the peace is frail
The madmen come again
There is no freedom in a land
Where fear and hate prevail.

It's because of those madmen and fascists of various stripes that sometimes its necessary to fight. The cost of that is that people will die, and it behooves us to remember them and what they did.

Like he said.....so much better than I.

 

[gerryh]

and it will continue as long as the majority only see's killing as an answer.

 

[AnnaG]

How many innocents need to be killed before anyone fights back? 6 million Jews? 200,000 people from the Congo? 800,000 Brazilian natives since 1900?

Yes, we should quit making wars. No, making wars won't stop.

 

[AnnaG]

and it will continue as long as the majority only see's killing as an answer.

No. It'll continue as long as there are people around who think they can do as they want at the expense of others and those others resist them.
I suppose you'd be happier if Hitler hadn't been stopped.:roll:

 

[Kreskin]

At the Remembrance Day ceremonies yesterday the EMCEE spoke of what is written in scriptures. (Paraphrased) That there will be a time for birth and a time for death, a time rejoice and a time to grieve, a time to win and a time to lose etc. That's nature. No matter how much we collectively dislike war, there will be a time for peace and a time for war. Every continuum in nature has extremes. To argue that nature must stop is not realistic.

Remembrance Day is not about celebrating war victories. It's not about supporting war. It's about remembering those who bravely fought and died for us. Yes us; we voted in those who sent them to war. The least we can do is take some responsibility for why they died. Even if that responsibility to 'not forget them'.

 

[JLM]

and it will continue as long as the majority only see's killing as an answer.

Come on Ger, I answered your question, please answer mine.

 

[gerryh]

Come on Ger, I answered your question, please answer mine.

cannuck answered for me, since he knows exactley what I think.

 

[JLM]

cannuck answered for me, since he knows exactley what I think.

Oh good, that sounds like a smart arrangement, if I want to tell you something do I just address it to Cannuck, attn. Gerry?

 

[TrapperSnapper]

and it will continue as long as the majority only see's killing as an answer.

So why do you think there is a majority?

 

[Spade]

I do not think it is a majority view.
McMaster University: The Bertrand Russell Research Centre

 

[Colpy]

I do not think it is a majority view.
McMaster University: The Bertrand Russell Research Centre

Which begs the question:

What price peace?

 

[Downhome_Woman]

anonymous - youbet - war sucks big time. But what are you wiling to do when you see a Hitler or someone equally as vile willing to eliminate anyone in their way to get what they think is rightfully theirs. On a smaller scale, are you willing to walk past someone who is being mugged? robbed? Raped? Just because you don't believe in intervening because your intervention could result in violence?
I can't address the larger 'national' issues, but to let people be brutalized because some country wants more 'living space' 'power'?
It's very easy to say that war is wrong, but there will always be a NAZI, a Taliban - whatever, who doesn't give a damn about the people they want to overcome. Are you saying that it's better to let them do what they want rather than help the people they want to suppress, just to 'keep the peace'?