Religicide - The deliberate cleansing thru a variety of techniques including mass mur

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
I find it interesting that the people who focus on atrocities in other countries tend to ignore those committed by and in their own country. The news is designed to take your focus away from your immediate realm of influence, your immediate geographical area and focus on far away places in which you have none. This basically renders the viewer impotent or feeling impotent to do anything to change the way things are, even in their own realm of influence. It is a neat trick the corporate controlled media do to help maintain the status quo.

And yes, I have spent a good part of my life employed by the media of various types and am well versed in the psychology used to snooker the public into complacency.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
I find it interesting that the people who focus on atrocities in other countries tend to ignore those committed by and in their own country. The news is designed to take your focus away from your immediate realm of influence, your immediate geographical area and focus on far away places in which you have none. This basically renders the viewer impotent or feeling impotent to do anything to change the way things are, even in their own realm of influence. It is a neat trick the corporate controlled media do to help maintain the status quo.

And yes, I have spent a good part of my life employed by the media of various types and am well versed in the psychology used to snooker the public into complacency.

Cliffy

As to addressing our short comings - yes we have them and we also have a well entrenched Democracy with all the trimmings - The countries I mention have not even met the glimmer of Human Rights for all citizens

As I mentioned previously the 1st point and this as well - As to addressing our short comings - yes we have them and we also have a well entrenched Democracy with all the trimmings - The countries I mention have not even met the glimmer of Human Rights for all citizens -

Cliffy - Do you see any of that in Canada - Show trials, lengthy prison terms or execution - Do you see the Govt's - Fed or Prov discrimination based upon Religious beliefs -

Again I will mention what I posted previously but trimmed - We in Canada as I stated previously have not and probably will never achieve the Nirvana or the fine balance of Yin & Yang culturally, ethnically or religiously so -

Do you see mobs running rampant in the streets, burning houses down, raping and killing women, killing of women, men & children. Well do you see that - Than your point is not relevant to the thread topic.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Suppression of Native American religions by racist USA government:

Daily Kos: Indians 101: Suppressing Indians Religions in the Early 20th Century

It has also happened in Canada.

Gopher

Would this, by Govt I take it that you mean the people - That in Iowa a rural, white State overwhelming voted for Obama?

Would this be the Govt that elected the 1st 1/2 Black - 1/2 White President?

Try to stay on topic - I realize your hatred for the country you are a citizen of - perhaps relocating to one of the countries I mentioned in my Thread Topic would resolve those feeling - After all you would be away from all those racist Americans, now wouldn't you?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Goobs, do you remember all the stories of human rights infringements about Afghanistan prior to invasion? They were used as part of the reason we invaded. How many people there have been killed and maimed by NATO forces since invasion? Are those people not victims of human right violations? I think being killed and maimed is a human rights violation. Interfering in the internal affairs of other countries usually proves to create situations that are worse than those we are supposed to be fixing. Just take a look at Iraq. Most of Iraqis are worse off today than they were under Saddam.

What is happening in Iran is up to the Iranian people to deal with, not ours. If we do anything at all, we will in all probability make the situation worse, if history has taught us anything at all.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
''Gopher

Would this, by Govt I take it that you mean the people - That in Iowa a rural, white State overwhelming voted for Obama?

Would this be the Govt that elected the 1st 1/2 Black - 1/2 White President?

Try to stay on topic - I realize your hatred for the country you are a citizen of - perhaps relocating to one of the countries I mentioned in my Thread Topic would resolve those feeling - After all you would be away from all those racist Americans, now wouldn't you?''


This has got to be one of the most idiotic answers I have ever seen on this forum.

Goofer creates a topic about suppression of religion by a majority and goes on to enumerate examples from overseas. By he conveniently ignores what has happened in the USA and Canada.

Convenient, but not exactly very smart.

So tell us genius, what precisely are you trying to hide here???

Oh by the way, you mention a half black, half white president as if to suggest that racism and religicide does not nor did ever happen in the USA. But you mention suppression of the Sikhs in India by its majority religion. In doing so, you forgot that the president of India is a full blooded Sikh. Tell me genius, are you now saying India has never suppressed the Sikhs???

Projecting your prejudices unto everybody else tells us all about yourself. Wise up next time if you want to be believed by anybody here.


 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
''Gopher

Would this, by Govt I take it that you mean the people - That in Iowa a rural, white State overwhelming voted for Obama?

Would this be the Govt that elected the 1st 1/2 Black - 1/2 White President?

Try to stay on topic - I realize your hatred for the country you are a citizen of - perhaps relocating to one of the countries I mentioned in my Thread Topic would resolve those feeling - After all you would be away from all those racist Americans, now wouldn't you?''


This has got to be one of the most idiotic answers I have ever seen on this forum.

Goofer creates a topic about suppression of religion by a majority and goes on to enumerate examples from overseas. By he conveniently ignores what has happened in the USA and Canada.

Convenient, but not exactly very smart.

So tell us genius, what precisely are you trying to hide here???

Oh by the way, you mention a half black, half white president as if to suggest that racism and religicide does not nor did ever happen in the USA. But you mention suppression of the Sikhs in India by its majority religion. In doing so, you forgot that the president of India is a full blooded Sikh. Tell me genius, are you now saying India has never suppressed the Sikhs???

Projecting your prejudices unto everybody else tells us all about yourself. Wise up next time if you want to be believed by anybody here.

No my man it is not an idiotic statement and what would I have to hide - You hate the Country you reside in - have citizenship in - If you hate it that much move-

Next - No I am not ignoring what happened in North America - I did not put limits on the topic - excepting recent events - 30-40 -50 years.

Next - If you wish start a thread on the topics you mention -

We in the West get all in an uproar, and rightly so when people are subjected to Ethnic Cleansing - by forced relocation, by threats of violence, and by terror including mass murder.

We in the West get all in an uproar, and rightly so when people are subjected to Ethnic Cleansing - by forced relocation, by threats of violence, and by terror including mass murder.

But because it is affecting people with a Religious belief you prefer to discount that or shift of the Thread Topic.

You just cannot see this because it does not fit into your agenda of how the world is for you - But the reality is quite different for people in the countries I mentioned.

Do you see mass murders or ethnic cleansing occurring in the US or Canada for that matter. No - Can you understand that?

You post "Has Happened" defines the answer - Occurred in the past - Not today but the past that you seem locked into.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
''30-40-50 years''


Delusional Goofer now says he restricted the dates of these atrocities for the new period stated above. Well, the ''The Mass Murder of Sikhs by Hindus after India Ghandi was assassinated is only one example of the complicity of the Indian Sate in the mass murder that was committed. '' That was 1947 or 63 years which is beyond his newly created scope.

By contrast, the scope of the article I posted above was as late as 1934 or only 14 years from the period he now cites. This again shows the hypocrisy of this deluded pundit who points the finger at other countries in order to hide the racism he evidently applauds at home.

But just to satisfy Goofer and his newly created standard, here is a blurb from wiki on modern suppression of Native American religious practices

''
Suppression of Religion

With officials believing in the virtue of Christianity, the United States Government worked to convert American Indians to Christianity and suppress the practice of the Native religions (spiritual leaders had been associated with leading uprisings.) The goal of the United States Government was to get Native Americans to assimilate to their culture. Some called this "making apples", as the Indians would still appear 'red' on the outside, but would be made 'white' on the inside.[34]
Even in the 20th century, "spiritual leaders ran the risk of jail sentences of up to 30 years for simply practicing their rituals".[35] The law did not change until the passage of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (AIRFA) of 1978, although the government had stopped prosecuting Native American spiritual leaders.[34]
Different traditions continued to cause problems. For instance, the government included peyote among strong drugs that were illegal on the open market because of its hallucinogenic properties and general problems with drug abuse. But, the Peyote Indians traditionally had used peyote cactus as central to their religious rituals and practices, where use took place within orderly structures. It was not until the Native American Free Exercise of Religion Act of 1993 was passed that the Peyote Indians could lawfully again use the peyote cactus in their religious celebrations.''


Note the dates 1978 and 1993.


That should satisfy this delusional and his efforts to suppress the expression of the truth.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
''30-40-50 years''


Delusional Goofer now says he restricted the dates of these atrocities for the new period stated above. Well, the ''The Mass Murder of Sikhs by Hindus after India Ghandi was assassinated is only one example of the complicity of the Indian Sate in the mass murder that was committed. '' That was 1947 or 63 years which is beyond his newly created scope.

By contrast, the scope of the article I posted above was as late as 1934 or only 14 years from the period he now cites. This again shows the hypocrisy of this deluded pundit who points the finger at other countries in order to hide the racism he evidently applauds at home.

But just to satisfy Goofer and his newly created standard, here is a blurb from wiki on modern suppression of Native American religious practices

''
Suppression of Religion

With officials believing in the virtue of Christianity, the United States Government worked to convert American Indians to Christianity and suppress the practice of the Native religions (spiritual leaders had been associated with leading uprisings.) The goal of the United States Government was to get Native Americans to assimilate to their culture. Some called this "making apples", as the Indians would still appear 'red' on the outside, but would be made 'white' on the inside.[34]
Even in the 20th century, "spiritual leaders ran the risk of jail sentences of up to 30 years for simply practicing their rituals".[35] The law did not change until the passage of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (AIRFA) of 1978, although the government had stopped prosecuting Native American spiritual leaders.[34]
Different traditions continued to cause problems. For instance, the government included peyote among strong drugs that were illegal on the open market because of its hallucinogenic properties and general problems with drug abuse. But, the Peyote Indians traditionally had used peyote cactus as central to their religious rituals and practices, where use took place within orderly structures. It was not until the Native American Free Exercise of Religion Act of 1993 was passed that the Peyote Indians could lawfully again use the peyote cactus in their religious celebrations.''


Note the dates 1978 and 1993.


That should satisfy this delusional and his efforts to suppress the expression of the truth.

Gopher - Call me anything you want - 2 conditions - Do not insult my parents - and do not imply I have the same handle as you with this goofer shiite crapola - Got me

Fuk you are dumb - There have been more than one Gandi as PM - 3 I believe would be the correct number -

India Gandi was assassinated in 84 and her son as PM in 91 - Do the math - leave your shoes on this time - Fuk you are dumb.

Suppression of truth - Shxt man - That sounds like - Long live the proletariat - Again - Fuk man you are dumb, plain fukin dumb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indira_Gandhi

Assassination of Rajiv Gandhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
My, my Goof got his panties all a-twisted. Since you complained of Sikhs being persecuted after Gandhi's death, I thought it was likely that you were referring to the unhappy incident when an entire empire was torn apart and millions were killed (including MANY Sikhs) in 1947.

Just the same, since the incident I was referring to stateside occurred as late as in 1978 and 1993 does that satisfy your dumbfukkin narrow mindedness. You OK with that now?
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
My, my Goof got his panties all a-twisted. Since you complained of Sikhs being persecuted after Gandhi's death, I thought it was likely that you were referring to the unhappy incident when an entire empire was torn apart and millions were killed (including MANY Sikhs) in 1947.

Just the same, since the incident I was referring to stateside occurred as late as in 1978 and 1993 does that satisfy your dumbfukkin narrow mindedness. You OK with that now?
Gopher
No I do not wear panties but I get the impression you may be familiar with wearing them improperly.

I did not compain - not my nature - I stated facts - I normally do post reputable links, or atempt to do so - This provided information for those that may be unaware of such events - or like yourself who are to lazy, closeminded to even open any of the links -Again - Fukin Dumb & Lazy

I posted 2 links in the Thread Topic - again I have posted them for you, and in the link you will note the year - 1984 - Again you exceed the standard of being Fukin Dumb
http://www.scribd.com/doc/1035065/1984-Killing-of-3000-Sikhs-in-Delhi-by-Goondas-of-Rajiv-Gandhi

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/oct/31/india-sikhs-1984-massacre

As to your links - Do you see show trials, torture, mass rape, mass murders in the US - No - I think not - The US as Canada has a well entrenched Democratic System in place - Of course mistakes are made - and yes it takes ages it seems for them to be addressed and rectified - and some never will - We do not live in a Democratic Nirvana

And the major error in your post rebuttal was your flagrant and abuse of the term - I thought it -

If you stayed current instead of being locked into that Long live the Proleriat and other such phrases from the Dustbin of Stupidity then you may learn something - Highly doubtful though.

You are no different than the Sarah Palin - Fox News - types - they are locked into lies and BS wrapped around a size 2 fact - Now a size 2 fact is slimmer than hell - Your difference is you are on the far Left - they on the Far Right - You are all Freaking Dumb and foul your own nest as that is always the end result of such extreme attitudes - You forget at times and shiit where you should not.

Lastly - The Thread Topic is Self Explanatory, that combined with what I posted along with the links - I posted a small part as you are easily confused - Can only use Stupid so many times -

Religicide - The deliberate cleansing thru a variety of techniques including mass murder.



Religious Cleansing /Mass Murder of Christians -Sikhs /Tamil/ Bahia's & other Muslim Minority Sects - Terror Attacks - No Govt action to prevent or apprehend- Middle East and other Countries - State sponsored Murder & suppression.

We in the West have witnessed this time and again - Christians /Religious Minorities targeted by another religion - resulting in mass murder - State sanctioned terror against Sikhs - Tamils -Christians and other minority Religious sects within a Country.

Some are perpetrated by fundamentalists - But many have the tacit or implicit and active support of the ruling Govt - Iran is yet again a clear example of Religicide.




 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
That could never happen in The United States of America because they are Gods ordained protectors of human rights everywhere on this planet. Soon the criminals who would abuse human rights will be totally exterminated by barbaracue.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
I bet the same people who are the most fervant supporters in Ontario at least of our troops in Afghanistan are also the ones who voted overwhelmingly in the last Ontario elections to defend the unjust separate school system and failed to see any contradiction in their position.

... as evidenced by the very defense of this injustice on the basis or relative morality in this thread.

Certainly, one who opposes the Taliban would also oppose Ontario's (Canada's most populous province) separate school system. So how is it that a provincial government in Ontario supporting this injustice won an election while at the federal level the party that wins is the one supporting the war in Afghanistan. So clearly it's the same majority that supports both and yet sees no contradiction at all.

Goober, if you're so outraged over religious discrimination, then I'm sure you must be absolutely disgusted that last provincial election, the Liberals (who defended the unjust policy of segregated schools on constitutional grounds of all things!), won over the Greens (who wanted a single school system) and the Progressive Conservatives (who supported government funding for all religious schools equally), and possibly a few others who supported other means of ensuring equality in that domain. Or am I wrong?

Were you a resident of Ontario last election? And if so, how did you vote? Do you not support rewriting our discriminatory Constitution to make it just? Do you not feel in the least disgusted at that injustice? Or do you feel outrage only at more extreme forms of injustice as a kind of moral relativist?
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
notably absent in this discussion is the Christian-Russian suppression of Islamic cultures in the Caucasus both historically and in the modern era:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] The Religious Roots of Conflict: Russia and Chechnya[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]By David Damrel
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]There is something basic missing from most Western commentary on Russia’s ferocious war against the secessionist Chechen Republic: the Chechens themselves. While many analysts ponder Yeltsin’s pursuit of his costly, unpopular war in the Caucasus or ask how the international community should respond to Russia’s decimation of Grozny, the Chechens--who call themselves the Nokhchi--appear as little more than an unexplored foil to the Russians. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]But what sustains just under a million Muslim Chechens in their improbable resistance to Russian might? What are the religious dimensions of the conflict? How has Islam--and the powerful, clandestine Islamic mystical brotherhoods in particular--survived there, despite two centuries of brutal Czarist, Soviet and now Russian persecution? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]While the majority of the former Soviet Union’s 48 million Muslims gained independence with the dissolution of the USSR in 1991, the Russian Federation still contains over seven million ethnically and linguistically diverse Muslim peoples. Two groups of these "internal Muslims"--the Tatars and the Chechens--are important to the Russian Federation for two key reasons. The first is economic: both Chechnya and Tatarstan possess substantial oil reserves, with Tatarstan alone producing 25% of the Russian yield. The second reason is political: of all the former Russian republics and autonomous republics, only Tatarstan and Chechnya refused to ratify the 1992 Russian Federation Treaty that established Yeltsin’s present Russian Federation. Moscow immediately attacked both de facto secessions, and the Tatar case is pending appeal before the new Russian Constitutional Court. In Chechnya two years of Russian threats, bluster and empty negotiations ended with invasion in late 1994. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]That the political situation in Chechnya erupted into warfare comes as no surprise to anyone familiar with Moscow’s long and bloody history in the north Caucasus. The Muslim peoples of this multiethnic region claim a tradition of opposition to rule from Moscow that is entering a third century. Invariably at the heart of this Chechen resistance have been the remarkably resilient, furtive, and politically active Islamic mystical brotherhoods of the Caucasus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The history of Russian expansion into Caucasia--the remote, rugged, mountainous territory between the Black and Caspian Seas that is home to over 30 different ethnic groups--began in the late eighteenth century with Catherine the Great’s attempts to forcibly annex the region. But the Russian invaders inspired fierce, unexpected resistance from a broad ethnic coalition of Caucasian Muslims who had united in loyalty to one spiritual leader--a Chechen Muslim mystic warrior named Shaykh Mansur Ushurma. Declaring the struggle a jihad, Shaykh Mansur and his Muslim mountaineers inflicted a crushing defeat on Czarist forces at the Sunzha River in 1785 and were briefly able to unite much of what is modern Daghestan and Chechnya under their rule. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Shaykh Mansur headed a branch of the Naqshbandi Sufi order, an Islamic mystical brotherhood that originated in fourteenth century Central Asia. Islamic mysticism--known as Sufism--spread quickly among both Muslims and non-Muslims in the Caucasus and Central Asia, largely through the missionary activities of itinerant Sufi scholars and mystics. These popular shaykhs (saints, literally "friends of God") often acquired reputations as miracle workers, and their tombs frequently became shrines (mazars) and pilgrimage sites. As recently as the late 1970s, Soviet authorities testified to the abiding attraction of these shrines, listing more than 70 active mazars in Daghestan and over 30 more in Chechnya. More traditional Muslim religious leaders often attacked the Sufi "cult of saints" for un-Islamic practices, but from early on in the Caucasus, Sufism helped attract converts to Islam at a popular level and offered a powerful source of spiritual guidance and social identity. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]These Sufi shaykhs usually directed a tight, clannish organization of disciples (murids) bound to them with oaths of absolute obedience. Senior disciples were allowed to initiate new devotees into the brotherhood, and these deputies were often dispatched to spread the order in villages deep in the mountains. Frequently, charismatic and ambitious murids formed their own branches and subbranches within an order. Certain Sufi orders and suborders became closely associated with specific ethnic groups and with particular notable families. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Zikr (remembrance [of God]) is the central ritual practice of most Caucasian Sufi orders. This mystical ceremony, designed to lead participants into an ecstatic union with God, involves the group repetition of a special prayer or various divine names of God. The Naqshbandis favor a silent form of zikr that is closed to outsiders, but other orders sometimes permit vocal and public zikr assemblies. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Reliable membership figures are impossible to establish, but a 1975 Soviet survey in Chechnya claimed that half of the Muslim population there belonged to local Sufi orders--a stunning total of over 300,000 murids. The Naqshbandis, joined later by the Qadiri Sufi brotherhood, have dominated north Caucasian Muslim spiritual life from the late eighteenth century to the present day. Naturally secretive and disciplined, with broad-based social support and foreboding mountainous terrain for cover, these orders have proven formidable adversaries for whoever has tried to rule the Caucasus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Shaykh Mansur’s disciples continued their low-key resistance against the Russians even after his death in prison in 1793. Full-scale armed revolt against the Russian occupation of Daghestan and Chechnya resumed in 1824, when a series of Naqshbandi Sufi leaders called Imams began a bitter guerrilla war that would last for over 30 more years. The most famous of these Sufi warriors, the Naqshbandi Shaykh Imam Shamil, actually established a short-lived Islamic state in Chechnya and Daghestan before his capitulation in 1859. With Shamil safely imprisoned, the Russians moved to crush the remaining "Muridists" and pacify the region. Many of Shamil’s followers were hanged or deported, while his senior deputies escaped to Mecca, Medina or Turkey. But with the suppression of the Naqshbandis, a new order--the Qadiri--entered the fight. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Qadiri order, with its origins in twelfth-century Baghdad, first appeared in the Caucasus in 1861 headed by a Daghestani shepherd named Kunta Haji Kishiev. Based in Chechnya, Kunta Haji taught a mystical practice that, unlike the Naqshbandis, allowed vocal zikr, ecstatic music and dancing. And, at first, he counseled peace with the Russians. His popularity surged but soon his following, swelled by many murid fighters from Shamil’s former army, so alarmed the Russians that he was arrested and exiled in 1864. That same year at Shali in Chechnya, Russian troops fired on over 4,000 Qadiri murids, killing scores and igniting a fresh wave of violence. The brotherhood--whose remaining leaders all claimed spiritual descent from Kunta Haji--became implacable Russian foes and struck deep roots in the Chechen countryside. Together with the rejuvenated Naqshbandis, the Qadiris rose up against the Romanovs in 1865, 1877, 1879 and the 1890s and plagued Czarist rule in the Caucasus through the Bolshevik Revolution. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The revolutionary years were especially bloody in Daghestan and Chechnya. The Qadiris, and a Naqshbandi movement led by Shaykh Uzun Haji battled for eight years against the White and the Red armies to create a "North Caucasian Emirate." The pious, uncompromising Uzun Haji--whose tomb remains a major pilgrimage site for Chechen Muslims--saw little difference between the Czarist Russians and the atheist communists. "I am weaving a rope," he was quoted by his enemies, "to hang engineers, students and in general all those who write from left to right." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]His uprising in Daghestan was suppressed in 1925, but the Soviets, branding the Sufis "bandits," "criminals" and "counter-revolutionaries," continued to arrest, execute and deport the "zikrists" almost up to the outbreak of WWII. The brotherhoods braved the crackdown as they always had: the shaykhs disappeared deep into the mountains, the murids organized their zikr assemblies in private homes, and the orders ensured their secrecy through the double bond of spiritual initiation and tight-knit clan loyalty. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]During WWII, when disturbances occurred in Chechnya in 1940 and again in 1943, Stalin responded with astonishing brutality that bordered on genocide. Accusing them of still unproven collaboration with Nazi Germany, in 1944 he forcibly relocated six entire Caucasian nationalities, including the whole Chechen and Ingush populations, to special camps in Central Asia. All told, more than a million Muslims from the Caucasus were deported, with tremendous loss of life. By some estimates one third to one-half of the population of Chechen-Ingushetia alone--well over 250,000 people--disappeared after the republic was liquidated in February 1944. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Chechens and other groups spent more than a decade in isolated work camps in Kazakhstan. But by all accounts, the forced resettlement failed to break either the Sufi brotherhoods or Chechen national spirit. Describing the fearsome "psychology of submission" that prevailed in Soviet relocation camps, Russian author Alexander Solzhenitsyn observed that only one people refused to be broken by the ordeal: "the nation as a whole--the Chechens." And in later sociological surveys Soviet academics euphemistically noted that "the special postwar conditions" had actually strengthened religious beliefs within the exiled Caucasian peoples. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]In 1957, when the Chechens and other exiled Caucasian groups were proclaimed "rehabilitated" and returned to their republics, they found that their land had been "Russified." Hundreds of thousands of Russian farmers brought in to work the land during their absence had become permanent residents and now comprised a quarter of the region’s population. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Chechens, Ingush and Daghestanis also discovered a land scoured of Islam. Soviet authorities had experimented with the near total suppression of Islam in the region, closing over 800 mosques and 400 religious colleges. Mazars were demolished, converted into state museums, or made inaccessible. Only after more than 30 years, in 1978, Soviet authorities in the Caucasus allowed under 40 mosques to reopen and staffed them with less than 300 registered ulema. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]These measures against "institutional" Islam had little impact on the Sufi brotherhoods, which had never relied on mosques and madrasas as their centers. Indeed, the orders themselves--particularly the Naqshbandis--are noted to this day for organizing their own clandestine Arabic classes and schools to teach the Qur"an. And, throughout the 1970s, the orders regained their popularity in Chechnya behind a new Chechen Sufi brotherhood--an order that had formed during the exile in Central Asia. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]This new brotherhood--called the Vis Haji after its founder, the Chechen Sufi Uways "Vis" Haji Zagiev--is an offshoot of Kunta Haji’s branch of the Qadiri order. First identified in the camps in 1953, the Vis Haji combine scrupulous adherence to "conservative" Islam with unremitting anti-Russian, anti-Soviet rhetoric. Nevertheless Vis Haji murids are permitted to work in state industries, even those involving tobacco and alcohol. Described by some observers as "fiercely xenophobic," the order exploits modern technology to spread a message of spiritual rectitude and political activism. Reports under the Soviets indicated that in some regions the Vis Haji secretly convened their own Islamic courts and illegally collected various religious taxes. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Vis Haji zikr, employing violins and sometimes drums, also accounts for some of the order’s popularity. Attractive even to nonmembers, zikr performances sometimes provide the basis for public assemblies and displays during religious holidays in many Chechen villages. In another unique practice, women are welcome to participate in Vis Haji zikr, and there are reports of women shaykhs leading their own circles of female adepts. Crucial in preserving Chechen Muslim identity during the exile, the Vis Haji are recognized today as the most active and innovative order in the Caucasus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]It is unlikely that Boris Yeltsin and the Russian Federation can fully succeed in Chechnia where generations of harsh, repressive rule and even abortive genocide have failed. It is wrong to locate President Dzhokhar Dudayev’s support against the Russians entirely with the Chechen Sufi brotherhoods: his agenda is not theirs, and his fidelity to Islam is considered politic and superficial. But faced with an invading Russian army, the brotherhoods have already joined the fray on his side. Earlier this year Chechen fighters retired to the mountains and abandoned Grozny, and the end of the Chechen war became as elusive as the Sufi orders themselves. In this tired battle of wills between Moscow and the Chechen Muslims, Boris Yeltsin and the Russian Federation rank as their weakest opponents yet.


David Damrel is a Fellow of St. Cross College, Oxford, and an Associate Faculty Member in the Department of Religious Studies at Arizona State University, Tempe.
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/chechnya_sufi.html[/FONT]




[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]After these minorities are killed off or displaced, Russians are imported to take over their lands and institutions. As usual, when these Muslims are attacked by Christians, every manner of 'justification' is used by their defenders. When the Muslims retaliate in order to defend themselves, they are called terrorists.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
[/FONT]




[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
[/FONT]
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Hell, support for this injustice among our 'entightened' and 'advanced' population is so strong that even the NDP, usually the most outspoken on matters of justice, stayed mum on the issue thus essentially showing its tacit approval for it. And the Greens and Progressive Conservatives were slaughtered for having dared to challenge it. What a magnanimous population of philosopher kings we have in this province.

Gopher, you don't even need to go that far. Some Muslims, Sikhs and Hispanics faced reprisals right after the Oklahoma bombing, before it was known that McVeigh did it. Too bad for Sikhs and Hispanics that many can't tell them apart from Muslims.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
Those same ethnic groupings faced even worse things after 9/11. But, oh no, no, no, no! We must not complain about that. After all, that only happens in other parts of the world. Anyone who dares point that out in the USA is an America hater and worse. Far worse.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Those same ethnic groupings faced even worse things after 9/11. But, oh no, no, no, no! We must not complain about that. After all, that only happens in other parts of the world. Anyone who dares point that out in the USA is an America hater and worse. Far worse.
Gopher, are you feeling like a self hating Jew who thinks their Zionist government are real bad asses? Are you a self hating Yankee Doodle Dandy who thinks the American government are a bunch of bad asses? First off, that is so stealing Canadian's thunder, you schmuck! Second, there are drugs that will make you forget all that bad stuff your government does in your name and make you proud to support baby killers, mother rapers and slaughterers of the elderly. There are even drugs to make you proud of all the environmental degradation we do in the name of progress. So - bend over, spread um and open up wide for chunkies!
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
But Gopher, Canadian's are much more sophisticated than that. We dont go out shooting people. Instead, we write up a Constitution that is favourable to a specific religious community, and then defend the injustice by saying 'Oops, we can't change it. Too late. It's now in the Constitution', and conveniently ignoring the fact that the Constitution itself includes remedies to change it.

CBC News - Canada - JTF2 command 'encouraged' war crimes, soldier alleges

It would seem that certain sectors of our military make its members feel comfortable with committing war crimes too.

As I'd said earlier, before we focus on other countries, let's clean up our own backyard.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
Religicide - The deliberate cleansing thru a variety of techniques including mass murder.
"Cleansing?" Nice euphemism. Etymologically, "religicide" can only mean killing a religion, which is certainly a motive in some mass murders, but it doesn't cover them all. There's already a perfectly good word for what you're talking about. It's genocide.