Rational Faith

Motar

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Motar said:
Who is Francis Collins? What is rational faith? How does one integrate reason and belief?
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“Faith and reason are not, as many seem to be arguing today, mutually exclusive. They never have been. The letter to the Hebrews in the New Testament defines faith as 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of the things not seen.”
― Francis S. Collins, Belief: Readings on the Reason for Faith

Rational faith is the happy marriage of how and why, head and heart, science and art, judgment and mercy. Reasoned belief is the harmonious alliance of natural and moral, truth and grace, competence and compassion, material and spiritual. Rational faith is inclusive. It is both this and that.

Reason and belief are integrated in Christ.
 
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cj44

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Sep 18, 2013
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Dexter Sinister said:
That's most unlikely to be the effect of that cartoon, more likely the first effect would be to provoke them into calling BS on it--that was certainly my first thought too--followed by a demand for the evidence. And the evidence is so lame even a New Age flake like Andrew Weil expresses doubts about it. Your clear implication here too is that you think it'd be a good idea to shut the scientists up, which doesn't say much for your understanding of reality or the benefits science brings to your life.
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Dexter - you are mistaken! That was not at all my implication. The opposite is true. I was being snarky - I see I have to take more time thinking before I write.
Science Good. Evidence Good.

darkbeaver said:
Without a lab examination I'm of course just guessing that you are electrically imbalanced with the planet and suffering the usual psychological symptoms we associate with the condition. Do you have cramps, dizzy spells, episodes of raving on the interweb and or do you have an unnatural aversion to cats? These are the questions you should be asking yourself and discussing with your veterinarian.
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Mr. Beaver, I have all those symptoms. I did spend a few hours this morning meandering about the radioactive dump behind my house. I'm all charged up.
 
darkbeaver

darkbeaver

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cj44 said:
Dexter - you are mistaken! That was not at all my implication. The opposite is true. I was being snarky - I see I have to take more time thinking before I write.
Science Good. Evidence Good.


Mr. Beaver, I have all those symptoms. I did spend a few hours this morning meandering about the radioactive dump behind my house. I'm all charged up.
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I'm not a qualified vet, relax, nothing to worry about.
 
Dexter Sinister

Dexter Sinister

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cj44 said:
Dexter - you are mistaken! That was not at all my implication. The opposite is true. I was being snarky - I see I have to take more time thinking before I write.
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Just make it purple, those of us who've been around here for a long time all understand that as the sarcasm/snarky/tongue-in-cheek font, after somebody suggested a need for such a thing in a long ago thread. :)
 
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cj44

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Sep 18, 2013
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Dexter Sinister said:
Just make it purple, those of us who've been around here for a long time all understand that as the sarcasm/snarky/tongue-in-cheek font, after somebody suggested a need for such a thing in a long ago thread. :)
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As usual, I'm lost. Purple, What?, Previous thread? Huh.
You gotta watch out for the clouds Dex. I am very interested in the science behind that.
 
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Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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cj44 said:
I was unaware of the sarcasm in purple procedure.
Well, if cliffy posts soon, I'll be sure to have cause to break out the purple.
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Investigate grounding before you dismiss it out of hand. There is a ton of evidence out there. Don't take my word for it.

You can be as sarcastic as you want, it doesn't affect me.
 
L Gilbert

L Gilbert

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Motar said:
“Faith and reason are not, as many seem to be arguing today, mutually exclusive. They never have been. The letter to the Hebrews in the New Testament defines faith as 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of the things not seen.”
― Francis S. Collins, Belief: Readings on the Reason for Faith
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Electrricity is not seen. But wait! There is evidence it exists! Faith is evidence of what? I'd suggest Collins has no idea what the definition of evidence is.

Rational faith is the happy marriage of how and why, head and heart, science and art, judgment and mercy. Reasoned belief is the harmonious alliance of natural and moral, truth and grace, competence and compassion, material and spiritual. Rational faith is inclusive. It is both this and that.

Reason and belief are integrated in Christ.
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and without Yahweh, there is no Christ. No evidence exists that this Yahweh exists outside the minds of some people.As I said earlier to 44, the faithful and the rest of us have different definitions of fact and evidence, reason and logic. Personally, I get my definitions from dictionaries, not books based upon imaginary beings.
The one book the churches should have burned and didn't were dictionaries. lol

Cliffy said:
Investigate grounding before you dismiss it out of hand. There is a ton of evidence out there. Don't take my word for it.

You can be as sarcastic as you want, it doesn't affect me.
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Of course it exists. Try operating your vehicle without it being grounded (the black cable clamped to your negative post on your battery). No touchy, no speedy.
 
Motar

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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L Gilbert said:
Electrricity is not seen. But wait! There is evidence it exists! Faith is evidence of what? I'd suggest Collins has no idea what the definition of evidence is.

and without Yahweh, there is no Christ. No evidence exists that this Yahweh exists outside the minds of some people.As I said earlier to 44, the faithful and the rest of us have different definitions of fact and evidence, reason and logic. Personally, I get my definitions from dictionaries, not books based upon imaginary beings.
The one book the churches should have burned and didn't were dictionaries. lol

Of course it exists. Try operating your vehicle without it being grounded (the black cable clamped to your negative post on your battery). No touchy, no speedy.
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What is the definition of evidence, LG?
 
Dexter Sinister

Dexter Sinister

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Cliffy said:
Investigate grounding before you dismiss it out of hand. There is a ton of evidence out there.
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Nobody's dismissed it out of hand, any engineer knows electrical systems of any sort don't work without it. What seems doubtful is the efficacy of earthing your body. There's a ton of anecdotes out there, but not much good evidence. Even the premier New Age crackpot himself is doubtful. Is There Anything To "Earthing"? - Ask Dr. Weil
 
Motar

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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L Gilbert said:
evidence: definition of evidence in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)Good evidence is independently verified and tested. Facts speak for themselves and are what you might call irrefutable.
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evidence (n.)
1 the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid
1.1 information drawn from personal testimony, a document, or a material object, used to establish facts in a legal investigation or admissible as testimony in a law court
1.2 signs or indications of something
evidence: definition of evidence in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

According to your selected definition, LG, personal testimony, document(s) and material object(s) all provide admissible information or testimony used to establish facts in legal proceedings. So, do these sources meet your criteria for evidence?
 
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