Rational Faith
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I did, but you seem a well informed and articulate sort, I presumed you would speak for yourself if you felt the need.
Our definitions of reason and logic differ greatly then. My definitions do not dismiss evidence and fact in favor of hearsay and there's a preponderance of evidence and facts supporting evolution.
Cliffy, I am speaking of universal christian belief which is based on biblical teaching. I am not saying you or anyone else had to believe as Christians do. Speaking within the context of Christianity, the Holy Spirit is the One who creates spiritual birth in a believer. This is a Christian belief. I am not aware of other religions that recognize the Holy Spirit as Deity/Personal Being. That is the Holy Spirit in which I speak.
But it's ok for your god to prey upon these people or at least allow them to be victimized? That seems quite irrational and hypocritical to me.
I think it started out pure. It wasn't until later that certain people corrupted the intentions and motives.
Gilbert,
There will one day be peace. God has His own timeline. I know that is in no way a satisfactory answer. Something to ponder though - there will be peace.
The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
I'll believe it when I see it (to state at the risk of using a very old cliche). Until then, I'll continue to think that the universe is in charge and it has no love, hate, jealousy, etc. but is entirely indifferent to any form of life anywhere in it. It has been for as long as life has existed on this planet and shows no sign of changing.
Gilbert,
Must we believe your nightmares?
I'll be back with perhaps some more uplifting verse.
Francis Collins' rational faith:
"So, some have asked, doesn't your brain explode? Can you both pursue an understanding of how life works using the tools of genetics and molecular biology, and worship a creator God? Aren't evolution and faith in God incompatible? Can a scientist believe in miracles like the resurrection? Actually, I find no conflict here, and neither apparently do the 40 percent of working scientists who claim to be believers.
Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things. But why couldn't this be God's plan for creation?
True, this is incompatible with an ultra-literal interpretation of Genesis, but long before Darwin, there were many thoughtful interpreters like St. Augustine, who found it impossible to be exactly sure what the meaning of that amazing creation story was supposed to be. So attaching oneself to such literal interpretations in the face of compelling scientific evidence pointing to the ancient age of Earth and the relatedness of living things by evolution seems neither wise nor necessary for the believer."
Collins: Why this scientist believes in God - CNN.com
Some nightmare.Gilbert,
Must we believe your nightmares?
I'll be back with perhaps some more uplifting verse.
So far the universe and I respect each other. I even like it and its phenomena.
Why is the biblical creation story any more believable than, say, the Haida creation story? Both take as much imagination and incredulity to believe. Why is your god better than their god or anybody else's? Because some goat herders in a Middle Eastern desert said so or because you believe it is?
They believe in superstitions: good for them. I'll think what I will and it contradicts their opinions.
As I keep pointing out; it's apparent that the substances necessary for creating life landed here on meteorites and began assembling life. I believe those bits of proteins and acids began the same as water, bits of stars, sand, etc. began in the universe. There's nothing that says the universe had to begin, however, just our version of it.
I've never heard of this word "ultra-literal". To me there is literal or not.
Probably because there is no "story", just a series of events.
Yeah, and I am fine with that as long as faith sticks to the social aspects of humanity like morals and how we associate with each other and stays out of the business of facts, laws, and theories. That still doesn't mean I have to believe in Mother Goose (et al) tales and fables nor does it verify existences of gods.
I've read a few. That is my point: the Creator gave his word to all people, at all historical time frames, in all geographical locations in words and symbols (words are symbols). So why can't some people see that? Just because some call it Yahweh and others call it the Great Spirit doesn't change what it is. It just is.
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Exactly. I also believe that Christ/God manifested himself to more than just the Jews and the Christians. He manifested himself in ways that the locals would understand. The Holy Spirit does the same. Those that are so closed minded that they can't see or accept this and condemn those that don't believe exactly what they believe are missing out on a whole hell of a lot. The only solace I have is, they will be surprised when the time comes.
Ya,ya, I herd it beefour. Yoo to got it all tuhgither much better than us po unbuleevers cuz we iz so stoopid fer not buleevin. lol
Oh, ya an weall'll never be happy cuz we uz unbuleevers, to. An well bee curst ferever, to.
Oh, ya an weall'll never be happy cuz we uz unbuleevers, to. An well bee curst ferever, to.
