Priest found with pantless boy has been reassigned by Diocese 15 times since 1988

[#juan]

He is well aware of what he typed. If you had a rebuttal then post it.
Why are you trolling him?

I don't need to troll Gerry. He is a troll all by himself.......

 

[karrie]

So you think relatives report one another more diligently? People don't try to deal with it 'in family', keep it quiet? See, my real life experience with pedophiles outside the church is that there are usually a LOT of offenses before anyone prosecutes them. Whereas, no one gives a crap about protecting their priest. They'll report him in a heartbeat.

 

[Goober]

I don't need to troll Gerry. He is a troll all by himself.......

That is what you were doing. Call it what ever you want.

 

[hunboldt]

I don't need to troll Gerry. He is a troll all by himself.......

I do believe Goober was referring to "the other":lol:

 

[Sal]

It doesn't matter what study you look at it will be unreliable due to the fact we will only ever have results based on either those reported or convicted. The only thing we know for certain about the subject is that a majority of victims will never come forward.

Now in the Unholy Roman Catholic Church what we find that is different from other incidents is even when victims do come forward or abusers are discovered there is a systematic, institutionalized proclivity to attempt to keep it internal and hide the abuser somewhere they can find a whole new crop of victims instead of bringing the perpetrator directly to justice. This leads me to believe that there has to be far more incidents within the church than other institutions like schools because the school will bring forward the accuser every time whereas the church will not therefore if the reported incidents are about equal the church must have more total incidents because they hide as many as they can.

While that is true in today's world Nick it is a recent development. If you study Freud and his pupil Jung ( in my opinion one of the greatest minds to date) Freud's female patients reported repeatedly about sexual abuse within the home. When Freud went to make it public he was told...NO... he did not fight it. He turned it back on his patients and told them it was fantasy. This was the beginning of the rift between Freud and his pupil Jung...Jung split from him.

It is common for this to be hidden it is so hideous. More common than we wish to accept.

Thus hiding is nothing new, and sexual abuse is only now emerging really in society. And as the church progresses and people fight for it, everything will come to the light.

 

[Goober]

I do believe Goober was referring to "the other":lol:

Correct again.

 

[PoliticalNick]

So you think relatives report one another more diligently? People don't try to deal with it 'in family', keep it quiet? See, my real life experience with pedophiles outside the church is that there are usually a LOT of offenses before anyone prosecutes them. Whereas, no one gives a crap about protecting their priest. They'll report him in a heartbeat.

Why so defensive over the church?

I'll repeat myself again....The only thing we know for certain is that most victims will not come forward.

Can we speculate on which institution you will find more pedophiles a part of? Sure. Can we say with some degree of confidence that one institution has had, and still does have, a habit of trying to hide offenders found within it? Yes. That institution happens to be the RCC. Like it or not schools and sports organizations and daycares etc do not have that same habit which gives a credence to the though that abuse is more rampant within the church.

I have never heard of a teacher being moved 15 times because of abusing a student. I have never heard of a coach being moved 15 times for being an abuser. This behavior is only evident in the church. Infer what you like from that behavior but a logical conclusion would be abuse is more prevalent and steps are taken to minimize the amount of instances that are reported and known about.

I do not discount the amount of family members that abuse but the discussion is about whether the church has more offenders than other institutions and the clear answer is yes.

 

[MHz]

Hey Dummy, they already did. The guys in jail.

25 years too late, the victims should be able to sue the Vatican directly as they are enablers to a crime(s)

 

[karrie]

Why so defensive over the church?
.

You mistake an attempt at clarity, for defensiveness.

The problem is that when we have misconceptions about who is being victimized, and how and why, we incidentally, without meaning to, perpetuate it.

Things like 'celibacy causes it', means that people don't make sure that they take the same precautions with their kids around married men.

We need to be honest and clear about the issue and not let scandalous media slants and political biases make us think that our own backyard is clear and safe.

The reality of it is, I have looked into the stats, many, many times. It's something I've been angry with my church over. It is THE wedge between myself and my church. The lack of reporting, the priest shuffling, is a source of much anger. But, in researching and getting mad over it, I've had to see the picture for what it really is. And the issue is, entirely, on the shoulders of bureaucrats. It's not that there are more pedos. It's not that the celibacy has made them that way. It is, plain and simply, an issue because paper pushers and bureaucrats have tried to save face by moving these men around.

25 years too late, the victims should be able to sue the Vatican directly as they are enablers to a crime(s)

The victims also need to speak loudly, and clearly.... the ONLY thing you do when a crime has been committed, is go to the police.

The cure for all of this lies directly in the hands of society.

NEVER report a molestation to anyone but the police (unless it was a police officer, then go to social services). Don't tell the principal. Don't tell the baseball league. Don't tell the bishop. Don't take it to grandma to decide. Don't take it to your priest to tell you what to do about your relative.

No one should be deciding what to do with a pedophile but the legal system.

 

[Goober]

You mistake an attempt at clarity, for defensiveness.

The problem is that when we have misconceptions about who is being victimized, and how and why, we incidentally, without meaning to, perpetuate it.

Things like 'celibacy causes it', means that people don't make sure that they take the same precautions with their kids around married men.

We need to be honest and clear about the issue and not let scandalous media slants and political biases make us think that our own backyard is clear and safe.

The reality of it is, I have looked into the stats, many, many times. It's something I've been angry with my church over. It is THE wedge between myself and my church. The lack of reporting, the priest shuffling, is a source of much anger. But, in researching and getting mad over it, I've had to see the picture for what it really is. And the issue is, entirely, on the shoulders of bureaucrats. It's not that there are more pedos. It's not that the celibacy has made them that way. It is, plain and simply, an issue because paper pushers and bureaucrats have tried to save face by moving these men around.




The victims also need to speak loudly, and clearly.... the ONLY thing you do when a crime has been committed, is go to the police.

The cure for all of this lies directly in the hands of society.

NEVER report a molestation to anyone but the police (unless it was a police officer, then go to social services). Don't tell the principal. Don't tell the baseball league. Don't tell the bishop. Don't take it to grandma to decide. Don't take it to your priest to tell you what to do about your relative.

No one should be deciding what to do with a pedophile but the legal system.

Excellent post Karrie, Thank you

 

[MHz]

So hundreds or more years after Jesus they decided upon this.
So in my opinion it could be changed.
Clergy of another faith, who are married and convert to the RCC stay married.

About the same time they switched to their Latin Bible.

 

[Sal]

The victims also need to speak loudly, and clearly.... the ONLY thing you do when a crime has been committed, is go to the police.

The cure for all of this lies directly in the hands of society.

NEVER report a molestation to anyone but the police (unless it was a police officer, then go to social services). Don't tell the principal. Don't tell the baseball league. Don't tell the bishop. Don't take it to grandma to decide. Don't take it to your priest to tell you what to do about your relative.

No one should be deciding what to do with a pedophile but the legal system.

So true. Unfortunately many victims told their mother about their father and it was then dismissed. I know of someone who was raped/abused, coerced by their teacher in high school; told their parents who refused to acknowledge it. This teacher pursued this person all the way through their university years. They are messed beyond belief. Part of the problem is this is not necessarily like a rape by a stranger over and done. No this is repetitive. And like any victim, the blame is taken on by the victim. It takes unbelievable courage to report this and back in the day, it was pretty much useless.

 

[MHz]

The victims also need to speak loudly, and clearly.... the ONLY thing you do when a crime has been committed, is go to the police.

The cure for all of this lies directly in the hands of society.

NEVER report a molestation to anyone but the police (unless it was a police officer, then go to social services). Don't tell the principal. Don't tell the baseball league. Don't tell the bishop. Don't take it to grandma to decide. Don't take it to your priest to tell you what to do about your relative.

No one should be deciding what to do with a pedophile but the legal system.

The Vatican knew about the molesting and they covered it up rather than taking it to the law, do you really think the RCC would encourage victims to step forward. Ask Judge Goldstone what is is like to buck the system that you belong to.

 

[karrie]

So true. Unfortunately many victims told their mother about their father and it was then dismissed. I know of someone who was raped/abused, coerced by their teacher in high school; told their parents who refused to acknowledge it. This teacher pursued this person all the way through their university years. They are messed beyond belief. Part of the problem is this is not necessarily like a rape by a stranger over and done. No this is repetitive. And like any victim, the blame is taken on by the victim. It takes unbelievable courage to report this and back in the day, it was pretty much useless.

I never reported any of the abuses I suffered growing up. I'm only 34 years old. In a generation that should have felt empowered to report, I still didn't. It absolutely does take a ton of courage to report sexual crimes. I still wish I'd had it, and at the very least, I've vowed that my daughter will never hear her mom say 'let's just keep it to ourselves'.

The Vatican knew about the molesting and they covered it up rather than taking it to the law, do you really think the RCC would encourage victims to step forward. Ask Judge Goldstone what is is like to buck the system that you belong to.

This is my point... do NOT take a crime to your church, take it to the police. The church has a history of hiding these crimes. And parishioners have a history of talking to the church instead of the law. That needs to change. The church can't hide it if it was reported to the police.

 

[gerryh]

This is my point... do NOT take a crime to your church, take it to the police. The church has a history of hiding these crimes. And parishioners have a history of talking to the church instead of the law. That needs to change. The church can't hide it if it was reported to the police.

Actually, that isn't entirely true. In Ireland victims went to the police and then the police went back to the local diocese and colluded with the diocese to keep it all hush hush. The fact is, the blame for cover ups can't be laid at the feet of just the RCC. Society as a whole is responsible for this.

 

[karrie]

Actually, that isn't entirely true. In Ireland victims went to the police and then the police went back to the local diocese and colluded with the diocese to keep it all hush hush. The fact is, the blame for cover ups can't be laid at the feet of just the RCC. Society as a whole is responsible for this.

I don't disagree.

I've seen parents cover pedophilia up for their kids. Spouses cover up for their spouses. Churches cover it up. Schools cover it up.

And the resounding, most predominant.... COVER IT UP SO YOUR DAD DOESN'T GO TO JAIL FOR MURDER.

 

[Sal]

I never reported any of the abuses I suffered growing up. I'm only 34 years old. In a generation that should have felt empowered to report, I still didn't. It absolutely does take a ton of courage to report sexual crimes. I still wish I'd had it, and at the very least, I've vowed that my daughter will never hear her mom say 'let's just keep it to ourselves'.




This is my point... do NOT take a crime to your church, take it to the police. The church has a history of hiding these crimes. And parishioners have a history of talking to the church instead of the law. That needs to change. The church can't hide it if it was reported to the police.

So many many children don't. So so sorry you experienced it. Good for you that you can speak of it.

I was chatting to someone about this the other day and sometimes it would explain why someone who came from an amazing home with fabulous parents just goes totally and completely off of the rails at some point and just never gets back on. And we as a society just don't get why they have everything going for them and they can't cope, they mess every up every chance and opportunity given to them, and people get angry with them. Sometimes they don't know how to survive it and make it back from shattered, others survive and thrive in spite of. And sometimes survivors are the nastiest to others who can't make it. They think, well "I made it" you should too.

So while the RC church has a terrible record we as Canadians do too.

The stats in Canada are alarming:

• 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually abused before they reach the age of 18. In 75% of these cases, the abuser will be a family member or someone well known to the child.
• In 1996, family members were responsible for the majority of assaults against very young children. Almost 70% of victims under the age of three were physically assaulted by family members, and parents accounted for 85% of these.
• According to a Health Canada study, two-thirds of murdered infants are killed by a parent, and this pattern holds for other young children.
• Girls were the victims of assaults by family members more often than were boys. Victims were female in 56% of physical assaults and almost 80% of sexual assaults.
• Fathers made up a large majority (80%) of parents accused of assaulting their children.

Terrible.

 

[PoliticalNick]

You mistake an attempt at clarity, for defensiveness.

Sorry, my mistake then.

Things like 'celibacy causes it', means that people don't make sure that they take the same precautions with their kids around married men.

As I have already stated I believe it is a continuation of the cycle. I think sexual abuse has been prevalent in the seminary and catholic church for a very, very long time and that a lot of those committing the acts today were likely to have been victims of abusers in the church in their youth. I don't buy the innuendo that celebacy is the reason or other hype. It is a proven fact that most abusers were once abused and I don't think that there is anything in the church to make a difference from this.

We need to be honest and clear about the issue and not let scandalous media slants and political biases make us think that our own backyard is clear and safe.

I agree. There is far to much speculation on failing of the church doctrine as cause when the most obvious and scientifically likely reason isn't mentioned.

The reality of it is, I have looked into the stats, many, many times. It's something I've been angry with my church over. It is THE wedge between myself and my church. The lack of reporting, the priest shuffling, is a source of much anger. But, in researching and getting mad over it, I've had to see the picture for what it really is. And the issue is, entirely, on the shoulders of bureaucrats. It's not that there are more pedos. It's not that the celibacy has made them that way. It is, plain and simply, an issue because paper pushers and bureaucrats have tried to save face by moving these men around.

While I can see your pain & anger and understand where you come from on this I have to disagree with you on the amount of abuse. I think that the repeated moving and hiding of offenders and the systematic pressure on the victims to not report makes for a high probability that there is far more than we may think and far more than in an institution like a school where cover-ups are a rare occurrence.

The victims also need to speak loudly, and clearly.... the ONLY thing you do when a crime has been committed, is go to the police.

The cure for all of this lies directly in the hands of society.

NEVER report a molestation to anyone but the police (unless it was a police officer, then go to social services). Don't tell the principal. Don't tell the baseball league. Don't tell the bishop. Don't take it to grandma to decide. Don't take it to your priest to tell you what to do about your relative.

No one should be deciding what to do with a pedophile but the legal system.

You can bet your booties on this. Report it and report it immediately to the correct authorities and if they don't listen report it to the media. Report it until somebody listens!

Actually, that isn't entirely true. In Ireland victims went to the police and then the police went back to the local diocese and colluded with the diocese to keep it all hush hush. The fact is, the blame for cover ups can't be laid at the feet of just the RCC. Society as a whole is responsible for this.

F*ck off! You can't blame the hiding of pedophiles and repeated moving of offenders within the church on society. Most of society as a whole would rather string up a pedophile than see him go to jail. It isn't society's fault at all. Stop defending and excusing the abhorrent actions of the people running the catholic church! You look like a complete fool when you do.

 

[karrie]

F*ck off! You can't blame the hiding of pedophiles and repeated moving of offenders within the church on society. Most of society as a whole would rather string up a pedophile than see him go to jail. It isn't society's fault at all. Stop defending and excusing the abhorrent actions of the people running the catholic church! You look like a complete fool when you do.

You'd be amazed Nick. I've seen plenty of cases of abuse, and there are ALWAYS people hiding and defending the pedophile. No one wants to admit they were friends with a pedo and didn't know, raised a pedo and didn't know, hired and didn't know, etc.

 

[petros]

Every ten seconds a report of child abuse is made in America. 5 kids per day die of it.

Why is this one any different?

****UPDATE****

Only 56 kids molested since I last posted 9 minutes ago....how may were done by Priests?