Poll:- life better now or in 1959?

[countryboy]

No counrtyboy, I had not read that when I responded. A great bit of poetry, you sure have hidden talents (assuming it was composed by you). However, I can appreciate good poetry without necessarily agreeing with the message of it.

In fact, that is the case with Gilbert and Sullivan. Gilbert can only be described as a right wing nut even by the standards of 19th century. And his right wing nutty ideas keep cropping up in the operas from time to time. But while I enjoy the operas tremendously (great, soul lifting music, crisp, sharp lyrics, gut splitting humour etc.), I don’t have to agree with their message. It is the same with your poetry.

I agree. On the heavier side, Wagner's works are a bit extreme but interesting to listen to from time to time. Music is a wonderful thing and I agree, Gilbert and Sullivan's works are outstanding and highly entertaining in many ways. Especially Gilbert's political leanings...they lend it that extra "something special."

Thanks for the kind words on the poetry...yes, I did write it (I noted that at the top so JLM wouldn't have to take abuse for it) but I disagree with you...to me, the structure of it doesn't even reach the beginner level...it's the content that I think contains a sterling (stirring?) message of great quality, urgency, and importance! :lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sorry to intrude on this one...just wanted to offer my thoughts as I'm awake anyway.

How do you get rid of drugs? Check out Singapore. They don't have any there. They have a death penalty for possession of illegal drugs. Like freedom and most other things, a drug-free society has a price. Just depends how much you're willing to "pay" to fix problems. If drugs aren't a problem in Canada, I wouldn't worry about it. What's that old expression...either sh*t or get off the pot! Actually, another one I like is, "Either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way."

The other way might be to focus a police task force (a big one) on cutting off the routes into the country, shutting down the distributors and dealers, and helping the users kick the habit.

Those are only a couple of suggestions...I'm sure there are many more and better ones out there.

Two things about Singapore, counrtyboy. One, it is a very small place, it is just a city and half the size of New York city at that. It is easy to control policy in such a small place.

But even more important, it is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship. Oh, they have trappings of democracy all right, such as Parliament, MPs etc. But one party is perpetually in power, and no dissent is tolerated. Essentially it is a one party dictatorship, like Egypt or Syria.

It is much easier to implement draconian, extreme policies (such as death penalty for drug possession) in a dictatorship. Witness the one child policy in China. They could do it in China, a dictatorship, but it was a spectacular flop in India, a democracy.

So at the end of the day it does come down to this, how much are we willing to give up in terms of civil liberties, individual rights, in order to maintain law and order, in order to maintain peace and quiet, an orderly society?

I don’t think Canadians will go for such draconian measures as death penalty for drug possession (in fact, Canadians wouldn't go for death penalty for any offense).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Thanks for the kind words on the poetry...yes, I did write it (I noted that at the top so JLM wouldn't have to take abuse for it) but I disagree with you...to me, the structure of it doesn't even reach the beginner level...it's the content that I think contains a sterling (stirring?) message of great quality, urgency, and importance! :lol:

I didn't say it was great poetry, countryboy, I said it was good poetry. OK, it is not perfect, but how many do you think will be able to come up with even that much?

 

[countryboy]

Two things about Singapore, counrtyboy. One, it is a very small place, it is just a city and half the size of New York city at that. It is easy to control policy in such a small place.

But even more important, it is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship. Oh, they have trappings of democracy all right, such as Parliament, MPs etc. But one party is perpetually in power, and no dissent is tolerated. Essentially it is a one party dictatorship, like Egypt or Syria.

It is much easier to implement draconian, extreme policies (such as death penalty for drug possession) in a dictatorship. Witness the one child policy in China. They could do it in China, a dictatorship, but it was a spectacular flop in India, a democracy.

So at the end of the day it does come down to this, how much are we willing to give up in terms of civil liberties, individual rights, in order to maintain law and order, in order to maintain peace and quiet, an orderly society?

I don’t think Canadians will go for such draconian measures as death penalty for drug possession (in fact, Canadians wouldn't go for death penalty for any offense).

Like I said, it all depends on how badly people want to solve the problem. No pain, no gain.

 

[countryboy]

Like I said, it all depends on how badly people want to solve the problem. No pain, no gain.

PS - I'm not sure why we should be concerned about the civil liberties of a drug pusher.

 

[JLM]

1959 was no picnic either, we were finally going to a one station music format for
example, up until 59 there were Black music stations and white music stations.
We had the beginning of the civil rights movement, our attitudes were much different, and society didn't outwardly express sex, or liberal attitudes on anything it
seemed. While simple, everyone was repressed. Television today isn't bad, its just
more real than the programming years ago, many people today don't want to face
the reality of what society has created. Today we have much more freedom to do whatever we bloody well please we didn 't really have that freedom in 59

What is more important? The freedom or the way that freedom makes others feel and the other impacts it has on them?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

What is more important? The freedom or the way that freedom makes others feel and the other impacts it has on them?

Freedom.

 

[countryboy]

I didn't say it was great poetry, countryboy, I said it was good poetry. OK, it is not perfect, but how many do you think will be able to come up with even that much?

Well, based on what I've seen in this Forum, quite a few! :smile:

 

[ironsides]

You mean that crackpot Marconi? He even had the nerve to utilize electricity (which you can't "see") to energize the machinery that transmitted voices (which you also couldn't see). I tell you, what good are nut cases like that?

Lets not forget that Marconi stole his ideas from Nikola Telsa.

 

[countryboy]

I didn't say it was great poetry, countryboy, I said it was good poetry. OK, it is not perfect, but how many do you think will be able to come up with even that much?

Yes but I still think the content/meaning was GREAT! The poetry itself? Lousy.

 

[JLM]

Freedom.

To each his own opinion. I've always felt the well-being of others pretty well trumps everything, but that is just my own selfish opinion.

 

[JLM]

PS - I'm not sure why we should be concerned about the civil liberties of a drug pusher.

Well, I think you've just succinctly encapsulated about half the problems of society today.

 

[lone wolf]

Potty: Poll is opinions. You are the only one in this forum bold enough to claim to speak for everyone else. Isn't there a name for that, oh enlightened one?

 

[JLM]

PS - I'm not sure why we should be concerned about the civil liberties of a drug pusher.

For forty years we've heard lots of talk about the granting of rights and freedoms. There is an old saying "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"- that in itself can go a long way towards people being able to generate their own rights and freedoms. There is no need to put them on a platter in a public square. Decent people consider the rights and freedoms of others. When you put all the cake on a plate, at a kid's birthday party for everyone to grab, you know who gets most of the cake.

 

[countryboy]

For forty years we've heard lots of talk about the granting of rights and freedoms. There is an old saying "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"- that in itself can go a long way towards people being able to generate their own rights and freedoms. There is no need to put them on a platter in a public square. Decent people consider the rights and freedoms of others. When you put all the cake on a plate, at a kid's birthday party for everyone to grab, you know who gets most of the cake.

You say there's no need to put them on a platter in a public square? I might have to disagree with you there, just by a hair. If you had said, "Put them in a public square and then follow that up with a good, convincing caning for a first offence", I might have agreed with you. But you didn't say that. I did.

When that happened to a spoiled American brat living in Singapore a few years back (for "keying a car" on a street), I'm guessing the little bugger thought twice about ever doing it again. He discovered that Singapore isn't all hung up on rights and freedoms like the folks back home.

By the way, Singapore is really safe and nice place to live, work, and visit, as long as you behave yourself. Another poster pointed out to me that it is a dictatorship. So what? So is Thailand (it has a king) but as long as you don't forget to stand at attention when the national anthem is played and obey their laws, everything is cool. For all the law-abiding people. The other ones? Who gives a sh*t? Certainly not me.

 

[JLM]

You say there's no need to put them on a platter in a public square? I might have to disagree with you there, just by a hair. If you had said, "Put them in a public square and then follow that up with a good, convincing caning for a first offence", I might have agreed with you. But you didn't say that. I did.

When that happened to a spoiled American brat living in Singapore a few years back (for "keying a car" on a street), I'm guessing the little bugger thought twice about ever doing it again. He discovered that Singapore isn't all hung up on rights and freedoms like the folks back home.

By the way, Singapore is really safe and nice place to live, work, and visit, as long as you behave yourself. Another poster pointed out to me that it is a dictatorship. So what? So is Thailand (it has a king) but as long as you don't forget to stand at attention when the national anthem is played and obey their laws, everything is cool. For all the law-abiding people. The other ones? Who gives a sh*t? Certainly not me.

Yep, dictatorships are often quite under rated. But then of course we don't want the kind that Idi Amin or Mohamar Kadaffy was in charge of. Yep, I think the boy who keyed the car in Singapore learned his lesson, that's closer to the bottom line than any perceived rights he may think he has.

 

[TenPenny]

Here's one we could learn from:

China executed Tuesday the former manager of a securities company who embezzled millions of dollars – the first execution of an executive from the communist country's financial sector , state media said.
Some wanted Yang Yanming kept alive so he would explain where the 65 million yuan ($9.5-million U.S.) went, news reports said. Mr. Yang refused to tell.
China has also executed government officials in its long-running fight against corruption, which is a major source of anger among the country's citizens.
The Beijing Evening News said Mr. Yang was the first person from a Chinese securities company to be executed.
“Someone has to take responsibility in this case,” the 51-year-old Mr. Yang told a court in Beijing on Tuesday.
Mr. Yang served as general manager of the Beijing securities trading department of the China Great Wall Trust and Investment Corp. from 1997 to 2003.

 

[JLM]

Here's one we could learn from:

China executed Tuesday the former manager of a securities company who embezzled millions of dollars – the first execution of an executive from the communist country's financial sector , state media said.
Some wanted Yang Yanming kept alive so he would explain where the 65 million yuan ($9.5-million U.S.) went, news reports said. Mr. Yang refused to tell.
China has also executed government officials in its long-running fight against corruption, which is a major source of anger among the country's citizens.
The Beijing Evening News said Mr. Yang was the first person from a Chinese securities company to be executed.
“Someone has to take responsibility in this case,” the 51-year-old Mr. Yang told a court in Beijing on Tuesday.
Mr. Yang served as general manager of the Beijing securities trading department of the China Great Wall Trust and Investment Corp. from 1997 to 2003.

Well, two things are certain Mr. Yang wont' be doing that again and several others won't try it either. Less "sh*t happens" when people are certain of the consuences.

 

[JLM]

This thread seems to veer back and forth off course. I started a new thread on science hoping to redirect one of the subjects that was becoming part of this thread. There's a message for you over there, S.J.

 

[Cliffy]

Didn't we still have capital punishment back in '59? Man, those were the good old days!