Osama bin Laden is dead.

[Icarus27k]

who gives a **** about the FBI, they have nothing to do with Pakistan or anything outside the usa... it's not their jurisdiction

It is their jurisdiction. As Chris Brown, professor of international relations at the London School of Economics and Political Science points out, Pakistan retroactively gave the U.S. government permission to enter the country after the mission was over.

Pretty cut and dry.

 

[Unforgiven]

who gives a **** about the FBI, they have nothing to do with Pakistan or anything outside the usa... it's not their jurisdiction

 

[PoliticalNick]

Pretty sure it was not illegal, and I actually don't think you'll find many respectable people arguing that it was.

That is, it was an attempt to arrest a pretty evil guy. This evil guy didn't surrender and was threatening. Therefore, legitimate self-defense was taken.

Everything, considering that the target was No. 1 on the FBI's Most Wanted list. An attempted arrest of bin Laden, that turned into him not surrendering and thus getting killed, sounds perfectly legal.

As I understand the official story he was in bed and unarmed and never given the chance to surrender, it was a kill mission as some in the govt have said.

It is their jurisdiction. As Chris Brown, professor of international relations at the London School of Economics and Political Science points out, Pakistan retroactively gave the U.S. government permission to enter the country after the mission was over.

Pretty cut and dry.

Cut and dry huh? The FBI has NO jurisdiction outside of the United States as per their mandate. they require cooperation and assistance from authorities in any foreign nation. The CIA has been given jurisdiction to operate outside US borders in their mandate but only by the US and not by any foreign nations so are actually a criminal enterprise and could theoretically, along with the US govt, be charged under the RICO laws as organized crime.

 

[lone wolf]

the legality of the raid on osama's compound is now in question, the pakistani's had no prior notice...

Compass error.... Happens all the time....

 

[PoliticalNick]

I don't suspect you care much anyway. I don't think anyone hates my freedom, want to convert me. Terrorists just want me dead because they only hold hatred in their hearts. If I was just like them, they would still hate me. If everyone was just like them everyone would just hate each other. If you don't want to be bombed and killed, negotiate, use diplomacy, work toward peace and prosperity. No country needs to be occupied that can keep the peace and foster a life for the people of that country. Sadly there are a few Muslim countries that simply can't manage that. Some Muslims just can't control themselves without a gun pointed at their head. We have people like that too but most of them are in prison, not starting clubs to go kill Muslims. Get that down and we can talk.

So any country that doesn't want to deal with the US and keep the peace and foster a life for its citizens should be invaded and occupied by the US. The list of countries is verrry long. Also consider if you preach freedom then each sovereign nation has the freedom to do whatever it wants within its borders and the US has no say in it or you are denying the freedom you preach about. Or is it they can have freedom as long as it is your version and up to your standards?

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

So any country that doesn't want to deal with the US and keep the peace and foster a life for its citizens should be invaded and occupied by the US. The list of countries is verrry long. Also consider if you preach freedom then each sovereign nation has the freedom to do whatever it wants within its borders and the US has no say in it or you are denying the freedom you preach about. Or is it they can have freedom as long as it is your version and up to your standards?

Up until this happened.

The US has very little interest in Afghanistan.

 

[PoliticalNick]

no idea what you're trying to say... but apparently, and embarrassingly, it still seems you have that belief that the muslims hate us for our freedoms and want to convert us ...
i'll tell you , they don't give a **** about what religion we are, they just want us to stop bombing or supporting the bombing, and occupying of muslim countries.

Its a wast of time Bert, some people will never understand or admit that the US, by its own actions and foreign policy, started all this in the first place and the resulting terrorism is a not so peaceful protest of their actions. I tried earlier to get some to understand that OBL's big protest was about permanent US bases on Saudi soil, he stated it many times that all he wanted was the american presence in Saudi Arabia and the middle east gone.

That is exactly right. It's war, not negotiation. We want all of them dead or under lock and key if they are too afraid to die for their beliefs. I don't expect any mercy from terrorists. I fully expect my children to be killed or held hostage against me, my culture to become more closed and suspicious as a result of terrorism and in turn the terrorists can expect that when they are spotted they will be murdered if they don't simply drop to the ground and surrender pronto.

So I don't care if killing bin Laden is legal. I don't care if he is a martyr or then thousand step up to fill the vacancy he left. We have plenty of bullets and the resources to wait and dig each and every one of them out from the rat hole they hide in and kill them in front of their children. If the kiddies get in the way or the wives act a human shields well they can die too.

Feel free to appeal to my reason but if you want to force me to change by hurting or killing me or those around me, well, all I can say is fu ck off and die.

As I said before, you have given up your morals and your honor and now are reduced to the same thing you supposedly fight against. They won, you lost!!

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

As I said before, you have given up your morals and your honor and now are reduced to the same thing you supposedly fight against. They won, you lost!!

Sorry Nick, that is total bullsh!t. If I were to take up his tactics, like sending suicide bombers into markets, or cutting the heads off hostages while they begged for life, or disfigured girls with acid you might have a point, but I have yet to see a comparable act of savagery unless you were to consult an apologist nitwit like CUbert or EAO.

 

[lone wolf]

Dead bodies don't call "HELP!"

 

[PoliticalNick]

Up until this happened.

The US has very little interest in Afghanistan.

Valid point. But why did it happen?

Did Bin Laden just wake up one day and say I think I will attack america cause it will be fun? Not likely.
Was it because he hates freedom? Doubt it. He lived in the west for too long
Was it because he thinks all non-muslims should die? Considering he was educated in England and lived a great portion of his life in the west I doubt this one too.
I know, it was because he hates the capitalism. Wrong again because he and his family are big-time capitalists in Saudi Arabia.
Or was it something else that nobody seems to want to talk about or admit? I'm going with this one. The US foreign policy in the middle east is like a bull in a china shop looking for their profit and a stable supply of oil at any expense. This was the expense.

 

[lone wolf]

I still think he was the middleman

 

[In Between Man]

But why did it happen?

Was it because he thinks all non-muslims should die?

Yes! Islam commands its followers to kill all non believers, no matter if Christian, atheist, or agnostic etc. They hate you! Where have you been?

I still think he was the middleman

Don't tell me you're a truther!

 

[lone wolf]

Yes! Islam commands its followers to kill all non believers, no matter if Christian, atheist, or agnostic etc. They hate you! Where have you been?



Don't tell me you're a truther!

How did the extremists get so much power? Why are people turning to them and away from western influence?

Truther? How so?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Sorry Nick, that is total bullsh!t. If I were to take up his tactics, like sending suicide bombers into markets, or cutting the heads off hostages while they begged for life, or disfigured girls with acid you might have a point, but I have yet to see a comparable act of savagery unless you were to consult an apologist nitwit like CUbert or EAO.

I get where you are coming from with this. Although we drop bombs from planes 10,000 feet up or send in drones which kill civilians instead of walking in to a market with it strapped to a body so I can't agree with the bombing part. Chopping off a head or throwing acid at someone is just wrong.

What I am getting at is we live by the rule of law. That means the law applies equally to everyone at all times, no one is above it or beneath it for any reason. If we are willing to give up that law and due process for any exception we might as well give it up entirely because once you give it up once it no longer exists. It is like the woman on CNN on Monday that said in one sentence she was a good christian and against murder but she could make an exception for this case. That one exception, IMHO, takes away her right to call herself a good christian and be against murder forever.

 

[In Between Man]

How did the extremists get so much power? Why are people turning to them and away from western influence?

Because they have the a sshole brigrade preaching to them! Radical imams calling for the desruction of Israel and the west. Not to mention indoctrinating their children over the years!

They've gained power because of radical religious influence.

Truther? How so?

If you think Osama was the middle man, who are you implying was the head orchestrator? If you believe it was the US government you have something in common with the truther movement.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

How did the extremists get so much power? Why are people turning to them and away from western influence?

Truther? How so?

How did David Koresh found Camp Davidian in Waco? How did Jim Jones carry out the massacre in Guyana?

These guys are a cult. Granted, one of epic proportion, but still a cult.

Perhaps if we spent a lot less time worrying about their feelings and lot more time killing them we might not have as many to deal with.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Yes! Islam commands its followers to kill all non believers, no matter if Christian, atheist, or agnostic etc. They hate you! Where have you been?

That's funny because I know plenty of muslims, even have a few in the extended family in England, and none of them promotes killing people that don't follow Islam nor would any of them kill someone in general. You mistakenly take the interpretations of some radicals as what the entire muslim world believes. The interpretation of the bible during the Spanish inquisition and some other points in history was that all non-christians should accept Jesus or die.

Don't tell me you're a truther!

If by this you mean I seek the real truth at its deepest levels then yes. If you mean am I a conspiracy nut no.

 

[lone wolf]

Because they have the a sshole brigrade preaching to them! Radical imams calling for the desruction of Israel and the west. Not to mention indoctrinating their children over the years!

They've gained power because of radical influence.



If you think Osama was the middle man, who are you implying was the head orchestrator? If you believe it was the US government you have something in common with the truther movement.

But it's okay for you to preach at work.... What sort of double standard is that? They have the asshole brigade preaching to them. They've been bullshat upon by once being important to the United Stated in their battle to oust Russia. They've also lived so long in war they have forgotten how to wage peace. It's not all black and white, good guys versus bad guys.

How do I see Bin Laden as the middleman? He brokered a lot of US hardware into Afghanistan for Mujawhateveritwas. Business went bad when the Russians left. He learned capitalism well. He went for it again ... and it fell flat on it's face. 'Evil' Uncle Sam betrayed them....

 

[PoliticalNick]

If you think Osama was the middle man, who are you implying was the head orchestrator? If you believe it was the US government you have something in common with the truther movement.

No hard evidence of either theory in any way and the govt won't cough up the hard evidence they say they have so it's hard to make any judgement. Without real proof and evidence anything is just propaganda.

 

[PoliticalNick]

They've been bullshat upon by once being important to the United Stated in their battle to oust Russia.

Most of the real evidence doesn't point to the US wanting to oust Russia but to prolong the war to bankrupt them, and it worked.;-)