Ontario set to retroactively raise minimum wage

[Locutus]

via sda


Ontario is set to raise the minimum wage - retroactively.

Update: a somewhat "better" explanation here.

[...] the number of minimum wage workers in Ontario more than doubled since the Liberals came to power in 2003 [...]






while we're at it:

Wynneing!

 

[SLM]

I was reading this yesterday. Retroactive, argh! I know it's selfish but right now all I can envision is going back through payroll records for the past couple of years and how much of a pain in the butt that's going to be.

 

[Walter]

That is a huge tax increase for small business and will cause bankruptcies and higher unemployment; typical Lib policy.

 

[BornRuff]

I was reading this yesterday. Retroactive, argh! I know it's selfish but right now all I can envision is going back through payroll records for the past couple of years and how much of a pain in the butt that's going to be.

Lets be clear, they are not talking about going back and paying people more money for work their did over the last 4 years.

They are talking about tying the minimum wage to the CPI. The "retroactive" aspect is that they are proposing to count the last 4 years of inflation into the initial starting point once the system is in place. That would bring the minimum wage up to around $11, up from $10.25.

That is a huge tax increase for small business and will cause bankruptcies and higher unemployment; typical Lib policy.

Well, no. A 1%-3% increase in labor costs that only applies to the workers who happen to be making minimum wage is a very very tiny increase in costs.

If we were going to go the other route and distribute more money through something like the EITC, we would probably be looking at a much larger tax increase.

Granted, this bump isn't large enough to significantly change things for people trying to live on minimum wage, but it does keep them from falling further behind. It also provides predictability for businesses, which is much better for them than sudden large jumps.

 

[DaSleeper]

When Troudeau did the wage and price control (retroactive) in '75... I had to return three months of a raise I had got.............

 

[captain morgan]

They are talking about tying the minimum wage to the CPI. The "retroactive" aspect is that they are proposing to count the last 4 years of inflation into the initial starting point once the system is in place. That would bring the minimum wage up to around $11, up from $10.25.

The CPI doesn't necessarily measure the COGS and profit margins at the wholesale/retail level. The problem being that the increase may be harmful for those companies that are at a marginal level of profitability and can not afford to up the hourly rates

 

[Walter]

When Troudeau did the wage and price control (retroactive) in '75... I had to return three months of a raise I had got.............

History is showing Turdoh's policies not to be n the interest of Canadians.

Well, no. A 1%-3% increase in labor costs that only applies to the workers who happen to be making minimum wage is a very very tiny increase in costs.

Where are you getting those numbers from? The numbers you gave ($11 from $10.25) show a 7.3% increase. A small retail outlet will have most of its employees on min.wage. That makes for a huge tax hike for the businessman.

 

[BornRuff]

Where are you getting those numbers from? The numbers you gave ($11 from $10.25) show a 7.3% increase. A small retail outlet will have most of its employees on min.wage. That makes for a huge tax hike for the businessman.

I am talking about the yearly increases. It is an increase for sure if you do happen to employ people at the minimum wage, but huge is a bit hyperbolic.

 

[Walter]

I am talking about the yearly increases. It is an increase for sure if you do happen to employ people at the minimum wage, but huge is a bit hyperbolic.

You're lucky if you think a 7.3% increase in taxes isn't huge.

 

[BornRuff]

The CPI doesn't necessarily measure the COGS and profit margins at the wholesale/retail level. The problem being that the increase may be harmful for those companies that are at a marginal level of profitability and can not afford to up the hourly rates

Nobody said this is supposed to track the costs of doing business. It is supposed to track to the costs of living.

You need to think about people who are struggling to get by on the very meager minimum wage that we have now. Allowing it to get lower and lower in real terms as cost of living increases is very harmful to them.

 

[taxslave]

Yet another poorly thought out plan by a government desperate to buy votes.

 

[SLM]

Lets be clear, they are not talking about going back and paying people more money for work their did over the last 4 years.

They are talking about tying the minimum wage to the CPI. The "retroactive" aspect is that they are proposing to count the last 4 years of inflation into the initial starting point once the system is in place. That would bring the minimum wage up to around $11, up from $10.25.

Not everybody gets my humour.

 

[lone wolf]

I hope they plan on raising ODSP to match the inevitable cost of living increase a raise at the grocery store incurs. Retro would be nice....

 

[captain morgan]

Nobody said this is supposed to track the costs of doing business. It is supposed to track to the costs of living.

You need to think about people who are struggling to get by on the very meager minimum wage that we have now. Allowing it to get lower and lower in real terms as cost of living increases is very harmful to them.

Business owners do not strive to amass losses and or seek to pay out of pocket to operate.

When thinking about those that are struggling to get by, you also need to assess the ramifications and affects of small business that down-size, lay off staff or simply shut their doors... No employer means no opportunity to receive a salary/wage of any kind

Those that are affected by that circumstance no longer care what the wages is (was), they are out on the street

 

[petros]

History is showing Turdoh's policies not to be n the interest of Canadians.


Where are you getting those numbers from? The numbers you gave ($11 from $10.25) show a 7.3% increase. A small retail outlet will have most of its employees on min.wage. That makes for a huge tax hike for the businessman.

What tax would that be?

 

[mentalfloss]

I am talking about the yearly increases. It is an increase for sure if you do happen to employ people at the minimum wage, but huge is a bit hyperbolic.

You're actually trying to rationalize with Walter.

Good luck buddy.

Anyway, tying minimum wage to the economy is a great - dare I say, right wing - idea.

But we all know Walt would prefer the socialist approach.

 

[taxslave]

You're actually trying to rationalize with Walter.

Good luck buddy.

Anyway, tying minimum wage to the economy is a great - dare I say, right wing - idea.

But we all know Walt would prefer the socialist approach.

So next time the economy tanks would the minimum wage go down? I'd like to see a government pull that one off.

Might be a good way to calculate government employees wages too.

 

[mentalfloss]

So next time the economy tanks would the minimum wage go down? I'd like to see a government pull that one off.

Might be a good way to calculate government employees wages too.

I agree with all of this, actually.

Just bear in mind we still have to consider inflation.

 

[BornRuff]

So next time the economy tanks would the minimum wage go down? I'd like to see a government pull that one off.

Might be a good way to calculate government employees wages too.

I guess, but that is kind of a moot point. The chances of us ever seeing the CPI go down is slim to none. We didn't even see that happen during the 2008 recession. We just saw slower inflation.

Business owners do not strive to amass losses and or seek to pay out of pocket to operate.

When thinking about those that are struggling to get by, you also need to assess the ramifications and affects of small business that down-size, lay off staff or simply shut their doors... No employer means no opportunity to receive a salary/wage of any kind

Those that are affected by that circumstance no longer care what the wages is (was), they are out on the street

If you raise it high enough to put lots of companies out of business, yes, that is bad. This is a very meager increase though, just keeping the minimum level at the same real level from year to year.

Cost of business change all the time, including the costs around maintaining employees. Companies make adjustments and carry on.

There are always costs to whatever you choose to do, but there is significant support among economists for the idea that the benefits from a reasonable increase in the minimum wage can outweigh the costs.

The facts are that over decades of research, the number of jobs actually lost due to increases in the minimum wage is very small. The elasticity of demand for workers in this price range is close to non existent.

 

[Walter]

I hope they plan on raising ODSP to match the inevitable cost of living increase a raise at the grocery store incurs. Retro would be nice....

The inflation snowball is worrisome.