Ontario Election 2014 - The Official Thread

BornRuff

Time Out
Nov 17, 2013
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"Piffle" translates to you are correct but I wouldn't dare admit to it because it may cause me to actually think outside the Kool-Aid jug

Lol, yeah. Apparently a very basic economic history lesson is "Piffle".

Everyone in power during a good economy loves to take credit for it, but even a cursory view at the macro level really questions the impact that any one government can have.

In the late 90's, the federal Liberals were also slaying a massive deficit at the same time that the provincial PCs were doing the same.

After 2008, the Federal Cons went from surpluses to the largest budget deficit in Canadian history at the same time that the Ontario Liberals went from surpluses to largest deficit in the history of Ontario.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
14,903
2,600
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Toronto, ON

The architect of throwing costs down to successive levels of government. Good role model. People get upset with Harris throwing costs down to municipalities. Those are the same costs thrown down to the province from the federal government in order for the Lieberals at the fed level to look good.

This idea they are selling is the stupidest on record. It is a forced tax on every resident of Ontario.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Oh dear.... Wasn't that Rae's government who caught "Those are the same costs thrown down to the province from the federal government in order for the Lieberals at the fed level to look good."...?
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
14,903
2,600
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Toronto, ON
Oh dear.... Wasn't that Rae's government who caught "Those are the same costs thrown down to the province from the federal government in order for the Lieberals at the fed level to look good."...?

Rae no doubt got some of it. There were cuts successive Lieberal budgets and one or 2 of them may be Rae's. I think Rae just added it to the deficit while Harris passed it on and cut programs and waste.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
141
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Rae no doubt got some of it. There were cuts successive Lieberal budgets and one or 2 of them may be Rae's. I think Rae just added it to the deficit while Harris passed it on and cut programs and waste.

thank god he cut hoola hoops, hospitals, economical hydro, and safe water.

One would almost think McLiar took a page from the Harris playbook of fukk em all.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
14,903
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Aka. nurses, teachers, hospitals, highways...........

And he only fired 13,000 people.

When Martin axed the healthcare transfer payments and the education transfer payments, who do you think would be affected? Blame Martin and Creitien if you want to blame somebody.
 

BornRuff

Time Out
Nov 17, 2013
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When Martin axed the healthcare transfer payments and the education transfer payments, who do you think would be affected? Blame Martin and Creitien if you want to blame somebody.

The Feds made their choices and the provinces made theirs.

Provinces have the revenue tools available to them to raise the necessary funds if they want. Municipalities don't. Downloading costs to municipalities without giving them any tools to raise the money was pretty stupid.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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In the bush near Sudbury
The Feds made their choices and the provinces made theirs.

Provinces have the revenue tools available to them to raise the necessary funds if they want. Municipalities don't. Downloading costs to municipalities without giving them any tools to raise the money was pretty stupid.

Oh, the municipalities have tools ... the ones who pay property taxes. Cutting taxes, getting rid of civil servants and downloading expenses is a farce. Those fees are still there and the same people have to pay them - just to a different pocket. It's all a scam to make some government look like it's efficient at managing (or, is it manipulating?) the economy - thus conning investors. How stupid do they think we are?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,794
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83
Sorry Wally. Looks like I was right about how Ontarians feel about austerity and deals with the private sector.


Ontario Votes: Vote Compass users weigh in on economic options

When it comes to corporate tax cuts or bailouts for struggling corporations — ideas that have been on opposing sides of the economic debate in the current Ontario election campaign — both notions get a thumbs down from users of CBC's Vote Compass.

But on the subject of higher taxes on the wealthier earners, a key component of the provincial budget that preceded the election call, Vote Compass respondents are far more supportive.

Competing approaches to job creation and questions about fiscal responsibility have been front and centre in the Ontario campaign, which will send voters to the polls on June 12.

Ontario Votes 2014: Complete coverage
Vote Compass: Where do you fit on Ontario's political landscape?
PC Leader Tim Hudak's aggressive attack on taxes and spending — which includes a plan to cut 100,000 public-sector jobs while also promising to cut taxes — and Liberal Leader Kathleen Wynne's defence of her budget plans to raise spending and hike taxes on the wealthy have dominated much of the debate so far.

On Thursday, the NDP unveiled its platform, which includes a plan to raise Ontario's corporate tax rate to 12.5 per cent from the current rate of 11.5 per cent. By contrast, the PCs have promised a drastic drop in the corporate rate, vowing to cut it to eight per cent if elected.

"How much tax should corporations pay?" was among the questions Vote Compass users were asked.

Chart: How much tax should corporations pay? (Mobile users, view the charts here)

Sixty per cent of respondents said corporations should be taxed more, while 24 per cent support current tax rates. Just 12 per cent of respondents said corporations should pay less tax.

Vote Compass broke down the responses further, including by voter intention.

Among respondents who said they intended to vote for the Progressive Conservatives, 35 per cent said corporations should pay about the same level of taxes as they do now. Twenty-seven per cent said corporations should pay less tax — while 34 per cent of PC supporters said corporate taxes should be higher.

On several stops in this campaign, Hudak has denounced government funds to corporations — which he calls "corporate welfare" — while Wynne has said a Liberal government would continue to "partner" with industry to promote jobs and competitiveness.

Chart: Government should provide bail-outs to large corporations that are struggling (Mobile users, view the charts here)

Vote Compass asked users whether they felt the provincial government should bail out struggling corporations. Here, the negative response was even stronger: 67 per cent said they disagreed with government funds for struggling corporations.

Another question that drew a strong response was the one that asked users how much "wealthier people" should pay in taxes. A total of 71 per cent of respondents said they should pay more.

Chart: How much should wealthier people pay in taxes? (Mobile users, view the charts here)

Tackling the deficit: Assessing the trade-offs
Vote Compass users were also asked about trade-offs when it comes to tackling the $12.5-billion provincial deficit.

Hudak is in favour of extensive belt-tightening in a bid to eliminate the deficit by 2016, one year earlier than the NDP and Liberals, who have countered that Hudak's plan is a recipe for recession.

Users were randomly presented with one of four statements about how to cut the deficit. The options included cuts to either education, or health care; laying off government workers or raising taxes.

Chart: The provincial budget deficit should be reduced, even if means... (Mobile users, view the charts here)

The prospect of cuts to health care drew the strongest opposition among respondents, with 70 per cent disapproving of such cuts to pare the deficit. Eight per cent of respondents indicated they approved of health care cuts as part of a deficit-reduction strategy while nine per cent were neutral.

"As expected, health care emerges as the third rail in Ontario politics," said Gregory Eady, senior data scientist at Vox Pop Labs, the makers of Vote Compass. "Lowering the deficit via cuts to the public sector or raising taxes are more palatable to Ontarians."

Education cuts are also unpopular, with 65 per cent of respondents opposing education cuts to balance the budget, compared to 18 per cent who were favourable to the idea and 9 per cent who were neutral.

Cutting government workers drew a mixed response, with a total of 48 per cent of respondents saying they agree that workers should be laid off to pay down the deficit, compared to 37 per cent who disagreed. Thirteen per cent were neutral.

Of the four options offered, higher taxes met the least resistance. Forty-five per cent of respondents were amenable to tax hikes to pay down the deficit. Thirty per cent were against increasing taxes to cover budget shortfalls, while 22 per cent were neutral.

The findings are based on 34,019 respondents to Vote Compass between May 7 and May 18. Though Vote Compass is not a poll, respondent data are weighted using the latest population estimates from Statistics Canada to approximate a representative sample of the Ontario population.

Ontario Votes: Vote Compass users weigh in on economic options
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,794
460
83
CBC is pretty widely accepted as a fair outlet and 35K respondents is a very high sample size.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
Actually the CBC is not perfect but is is reliable. As for the election Provincially in
Ontario the government could in fact be returned and in better shape than before.
Wait till voters find out Harper saved us from nothing they overspent not so much
they gave huge breaks to the corporate sector and lowered their taxes.
Everyone gets to pay their share and that of the companies. I am looking forward to
the day when the electorate sobers up and finds out just how much the Tories have
wasted and how much damage they have done to the delivery of services to people.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
27,356
7,323
113
B.C.
Actually the CBC is not perfect but is is reliable. As for the election Provincially in
Ontario the government could in fact be returned and in better shape than before.
Wait till voters find out Harper saved us from nothing they overspent not so much
they gave huge breaks to the corporate sector and lowered their taxes.
Everyone gets to pay their share and that of the companies. I am looking forward to
the day when the electorate sobers up and finds out just how much the Tories have
wasted and how much damage they have done to the delivery of services to people.
A conservative like you should take the CBC vote meter to see how Liberal you really are .