Ontario Election 2014 - The Official Thread
- Thread starter mentalfloss
- Start date
Huh.
I saw an opposite poll but I will take yours as it seems the aggregate is in favour of PCs right now.
There were 2 polls with exactly opposite results today. Sort of shows how much you can trust polls.
I think the media and their individual spin on things is way out of hand in Ontario.
The polling people , I've always considered bogus and paid for by party interest, somewhere down the ladder.
Since Bell media owns everything television except CBC , the whole spin on all television is pro Conservative.
It's why the right questions are not asked or pushed.
Case in point, allowing Hudak to get away with the million job con.
I said get away with for there is no hard media uncovering this out right con.
They do not ask.
From day one of the announcement CTV news at noon has given the edge to Hudak.
You watch this news and they give you a glimmer of maybe vote for NDP, and Wynne has to go.
And because Hudak has no real plan they just leave him sort of float about.
Rant over , thank guys for the chance to do it.
Behind the #ONelxn Spin: The reality behind Hudak’s 100,000 job cut promise
At a campaign stop on Friday morning, Ontario Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak pledged to cut 100,000 jobs from the public service in Ontario in order to balance the budget.
According to the Globe and Mail’s description of the announcement, “Mr. Hudak did not say exactly which jobs would be cut, but promised not to touch doctors, nurses or police officers. He suggested instead that he would mostly look to eliminate administrative positions and to privatize some services. The Tories have, in the past, talked about privatizing gambling and the LCBO, among other things.”
It’s easy for politicians to attack the public service and pledge to cut “government waste” to pay for other promises; however, delivering is much harder. As Alex and Jordan Himelfarb recently noted, “there’s never enough gravy”. Therefore, any assessment of Hudak’s pledge to cut the public service should start with the question: “Is this promise realistic?”
To answer that question, first consider the size of the Ontario public service: The so-called “core public service” in Ontario employs approximately 60,000 people – these are the public servants who would work in the departmental structure and are likely what you think about when Hudak promises to ‘eliminate administrative positions’ – although many would work in front-line services, implementation or policy development.
Including agencies, boards and commissions (such as Metrolinx, the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation, the Niagara Falls Bridge authority and several hundred other organizations) and provincial police and judicial employees, Statistics Canada numbers from 2012 place the number of Ontario public servants in the general government category as 88,483. The OPP, which Hudak said he would not touch, consists of 9,000 of these positions. Hudak confirmed at his press conference that he would eliminate some of these agencies, including the Ontario Power Authority, Local Health Integration Networks and the College of Trades.
Since Hudak says some of the job cuts would come from privatization, some of the 100,000 could come from the 39,712 people – including part-timers – employed by ‘government enterprises’ such as the LCBO, the OLG and provincial parks. Of course, many of these government enterprises are revenue-generating, so privatizing them might decrease government revenues more than they cut costs.
Now here’s a scary number: If Hudak’s job cuts were to come entirely from eliminated “administrative positions” and privatization, it would represent a devastating 78% reduction in this pool of workers.
The truth is that most public sector workers in Ontario work in the MUSH sector (Municipalities, Universities, Schools and Health). The health and social services sector in Ontario employs 238,555 people and, while Hudak said he wouldn’t cut “doctors [or] nurses” specifically, it is possible that some of the staff cuts would come from this sector. Indeed, in 2012, Hudak promised to close Ontario’s LHINs and Community Care Access Centres, which he estimated would cut 2,000 health administration positions.
The largest government employers in Ontario are actually the local school boards, which employ teachers, support staff and educational administrators. Together, Ontario’s school boards employ 285,623 people. A PC white paper on education released in January 2013 suggested cutting 10,000 “non-teaching positions” and delaying full-day junior kindergarten until the budget is balanced. The white paper’s conclusion said: “Education is vitally important, but we can’t pay for it with borrowed funds. As Don Drummond recommended, that means increasing class sizes a bit, eliminating some non-teaching jobs and controlling the cost of full-day kindergarten while we see if it really works [ii].” At his press conference, Hudak confirmed that teachers would be on the cutting block saying: “Will it mean fewer teachers? It does.”
The postsecondary education sector and municipalities also employ a large number of Ontarians, but it’s likely that these areas would be harder for Hudak to cut. The government could starve funding to municipalities or universities, but it wouldn’t guarantee job cuts since they have independent budgeting processes and other non-provincial revenue streams.
The breakdown of the Ontario public employees is as follows:
If Hudak’s cuts to the public service are going to come from core government, government enterprises as well as health and education sectors, then firing 100,000 workers would represent a 15.3% cut in these areas. Excluding “doctors, nurses or police officers” from this group, the cuts would represent 18.9% of the remaining public sector.
To put these promised cuts in perspective, according to a recent report by the Parliamentary Budget Officer, the total federal public service cuts since March 2010 have amounted to about 20,000 FTE positions, with an additional 8,900 positions scheduled to be eliminated by 2016-17.
I’ll leave it to readers to determine if they think this a realistic promise, however, if such cuts were implemented it would be unrealistic to think services would be unaffected and it would ultimately mean 100,000 fewer good paying middle-class jobs in Ontario. And, with the economic multiplier effect, firing these public servants would decrease economic growth and hurt jobs in the private sector.
Behind the #ONelxn Spin: The reality behind Hudak’s 100,000 job cut promise
At a campaign stop on Friday morning, Ontario Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak pledged to cut 100,000 jobs from the public service in Ontario in order to balance the budget.
According to the Globe and Mail’s description of the announcement, “Mr. Hudak did not say exactly which jobs would be cut, but promised not to touch doctors, nurses or police officers. He suggested instead that he would mostly look to eliminate administrative positions and to privatize some services. The Tories have, in the past, talked about privatizing gambling and the LCBO, among other things.”
It’s easy for politicians to attack the public service and pledge to cut “government waste” to pay for other promises; however, delivering is much harder. As Alex and Jordan Himelfarb recently noted, “there’s never enough gravy”. Therefore, any assessment of Hudak’s pledge to cut the public service should start with the question: “Is this promise realistic?”
To answer that question, first consider the size of the Ontario public service: The so-called “core public service” in Ontario employs approximately 60,000 people – these are the public servants who would work in the departmental structure and are likely what you think about when Hudak promises to ‘eliminate administrative positions’ – although many would work in front-line services, implementation or policy development.
Including agencies, boards and commissions (such as Metrolinx, the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation, the Niagara Falls Bridge authority and several hundred other organizations) and provincial police and judicial employees, Statistics Canada numbers from 2012 place the number of Ontario public servants in the general government category as 88,483. The OPP, which Hudak said he would not touch, consists of 9,000 of these positions. Hudak confirmed at his press conference that he would eliminate some of these agencies, including the Ontario Power Authority, Local Health Integration Networks and the College of Trades.
Since Hudak says some of the job cuts would come from privatization, some of the 100,000 could come from the 39,712 people – including part-timers – employed by ‘government enterprises’ such as the LCBO, the OLG and provincial parks. Of course, many of these government enterprises are revenue-generating, so privatizing them might decrease government revenues more than they cut costs.
Now here’s a scary number: If Hudak’s job cuts were to come entirely from eliminated “administrative positions” and privatization, it would represent a devastating 78% reduction in this pool of workers.
The truth is that most public sector workers in Ontario work in the MUSH sector (Municipalities, Universities, Schools and Health). The health and social services sector in Ontario employs 238,555 people and, while Hudak said he wouldn’t cut “doctors [or] nurses” specifically, it is possible that some of the staff cuts would come from this sector. Indeed, in 2012, Hudak promised to close Ontario’s LHINs and Community Care Access Centres, which he estimated would cut 2,000 health administration positions.
The largest government employers in Ontario are actually the local school boards, which employ teachers, support staff and educational administrators. Together, Ontario’s school boards employ 285,623 people. A PC white paper on education released in January 2013 suggested cutting 10,000 “non-teaching positions” and delaying full-day junior kindergarten until the budget is balanced. The white paper’s conclusion said: “Education is vitally important, but we can’t pay for it with borrowed funds. As Don Drummond recommended, that means increasing class sizes a bit, eliminating some non-teaching jobs and controlling the cost of full-day kindergarten while we see if it really works [ii].” At his press conference, Hudak confirmed that teachers would be on the cutting block saying: “Will it mean fewer teachers? It does.”
The postsecondary education sector and municipalities also employ a large number of Ontarians, but it’s likely that these areas would be harder for Hudak to cut. The government could starve funding to municipalities or universities, but it wouldn’t guarantee job cuts since they have independent budgeting processes and other non-provincial revenue streams.
The breakdown of the Ontario public employees is as follows:
If Hudak’s cuts to the public service are going to come from core government, government enterprises as well as health and education sectors, then firing 100,000 workers would represent a 15.3% cut in these areas. Excluding “doctors, nurses or police officers” from this group, the cuts would represent 18.9% of the remaining public sector.
To put these promised cuts in perspective, according to a recent report by the Parliamentary Budget Officer, the total federal public service cuts since March 2010 have amounted to about 20,000 FTE positions, with an additional 8,900 positions scheduled to be eliminated by 2016-17.
I’ll leave it to readers to determine if they think this a realistic promise, however, if such cuts were implemented it would be unrealistic to think services would be unaffected and it would ultimately mean 100,000 fewer good paying middle-class jobs in Ontario. And, with the economic multiplier effect, firing these public servants would decrease economic growth and hurt jobs in the private sector.
Behind the #ONelxn Spin: The reality behind Hudak’s 100,000 job cut promise
Says Katheryn Wynn via the Toronto Star.
This is not a fact but a allegation presented by his chief compeditor. To present it as a fact shows that this particular rag has sunk to a point where one can safely say they have no journalistic integraty. Also shows the poster's bias (but that is not a sin as he is not a journalist).
The 'rag' clearly addresses it as an allegation, as do multiple other sources.
Only Mike Harris would trust Whodat to cut in the right places.
Only Mike Harris would trust Whodat to cut in the right places.
The Koebel bros., the ones who were so inept in Walkerton, were public employees; it was a private lab that figured out the water was poisoned.
Yesterday afternoon, I'm sitting at McDonalds having coffee with a couple of friends, one Anglo who doesn't understand a word of French
and one Lithuanian who understands a bit of French since he married a French girl :lol:
The Anglo is a Liberal voter and the Lithuanian is an NDP supporter.....(no names to protect the innocent)
Well, Sylvie Fontaine, the Liberal Candidate walks in with her daughter (I think) and as she walks by our table to go to order, she must have noticed my Francophone accent, because when she came back towards her table to sit with her daughter she started talking to me, in French with the usual politician schmooze angling for my vote.....
After she left to sit with her daughter, I turned to my Liberal friend and asked him ......"After that obvious insult to you when she completely ignored you and spoke in French only when she is fluent in English.....don't tell me you'll be voting Liberal!"
I never did get an answer from him :lol:
and one Lithuanian who understands a bit of French since he married a French girl :lol:
The Anglo is a Liberal voter and the Lithuanian is an NDP supporter.....(no names to protect the innocent)
Well, Sylvie Fontaine, the Liberal Candidate walks in with her daughter (I think) and as she walks by our table to go to order, she must have noticed my Francophone accent, because when she came back towards her table to sit with her daughter she started talking to me, in French with the usual politician schmooze angling for my vote.....
After she left to sit with her daughter, I turned to my Liberal friend and asked him ......"After that obvious insult to you when she completely ignored you and spoke in French only when she is fluent in English.....don't tell me you'll be voting Liberal!"
I never did get an answer from him :lol:
And Hudak is a public employee so he should be your #1 target on the chopping block.
Actually, my #1 target is Wynn to vacate the public employment as Preimier of Ontario. I am not trying to say Hudak will be good, just that Wynn will be worse.
Cutting through healthcare and education is never a good thing and the Liberal budget is already getting praise for bringing in 2.2 million jobs over 10 years which is double what Hudak is promising.
It's odd how the Conservatives are not posting much about their leader and his platform.
The silence is deafening.
It's that bad my little droogies that bad.
Viddy well viddy well.
The silence is deafening.
It's that bad my little droogies that bad.
Viddy well viddy well.
Praise from some libtards. It was a bad budget. It was an NDP budget (meaning bad). I don't see how increasing corporate taxes will encourage new business from starting up in Ontario when other places would be cheaper. And I don't like being forced to bail out governments of the future for their mis-spending now but a forced pension plan.
It's one and the same old chap.
Bell media's owns their journalists and there bent towards Conservatives is apparent.
Watch Question Period on CTV for a few weeks and see who's side they really are on, even with a journalist from the Toronto Star on board in the scrum.
Then CTV's news Bill Bliss, well, watch and see.
Unfortunatly what they have to work with is just pork barrelling of size never seen before in Canada. To retain some semblance of jounalistic integrity they don't push much.
The problem lies that the present day conservatives are offering only sheer buffoonery in their campaign .
The only saving grace, it allows for even the dullest of the dullard crowd ,to feel the wincing from the platform of Hudak.
Deep down in secret places of the conservative voter a stir is causing nightmares and nausea .
The pork barreling is off the scale. Between Hudak's promise of jobs and John Tory's promise there will be no one not working in the province.
People will be working from their hospice beds, and the in firmed working from home.
Forced labor everywhere to meet the promise made on the campaign.
And this means what! exactly?
Because she spoke to your grace and not anyone else directly at your table it's an affront to what exactly.
Do you live in area of Ontario where French Canadians live and dwell. She showed courtesy and you mock this?
Did you make eye contact with her as she approached ? Did she offer the courtesy?
Your reaching for something here.
If you really look you will see that the taxes paid by corporations in Ontario are far lower than in America.
There is room for a rise in them without causing an exodus.
Any corporation operating in Ontario does so because it is necessary.