Ontario and, Quebec Play key Role in Oil Collapse
- Thread starter Retired_Can_Soldier
- Start date
Do you oppose free trade?
I could support an increase in the carbon tax which could make shipping crude from far away somewhat more expensive. Beyond that though, I'm pro-free-trade.
I kinda like the Libertarian Party platform on this point.
Do you think that the two provinces that make up most if Canada just started doing this? Is this some sudden Cabal aimed straight at Calgary because Harper is a gloomy Gus?
The East has never, ever had Western oil even offered them, let alone shipped to them. It has never been asked of any of us, ever. I will say that thousands in the West keep talking about the Evil Easterners and how we should all freeze in the dark. That would make me think twice about buying an essential commodity from those who mean us harm.
But...
The real reason is cost ...oh, and that ALL of your oil is earmarked for the US. We are part of a much bigger energy plan than that under the control of any Canadians. You may not even be allowed to send that oil to us if it is supposed to keep California going, or whatever.
The fact is, supertankers from all over (mostly the Gulf of Mexico) can sail right up to the cities in Quebec and unload their cargo. They used to do exactly that when a big part of our petroleum was fractured at the Montreal refineries. It seems to happen further East and South, now (no Canadians involved in that decision) The lower Great Lakes are just a few hundred feet above sea level and is reached by smaller tankers. The rest may be pumped up a very light gradiant from the sea to the population concentrations in Evil Ontario. There used to be refining all around where I am, now. There are only two small specialty refineries left that produce JP aviation turbine fuel and the other, lubricants. There is still refining going on in Sarnia, way to our West but close to the USMidwest market. All of our refining has gone straight South. No Canadians made that decision. No evil Quebec/Ontario cabal....
So If, those Evil Ontario/Quebecers stopped rubbing their hands together with glee at All if the hurt that we cause The West under Justin and we made it a point of transporting Western oil here (at considerably more expense, mind you) this is what would happen to that oil. It would be piped East, then straight South (the Trans Canada proposal is for another export route to the US. now that Keystone is dead. The many pipelines here ALL run North/South except for the Interprovincial gas route.) If you put it in rail cars, guess where it goes? Not here! We can't refine it here, anymore! Gone forever!
Now, because they Western stuff is sdo much more expensive to move "over the hump" in the middle of our continent, those Americans, who make ALL of the decisions about the allocation of petroleum everywhere in North America, won't touch the Western stuff because there is no margin to cover shipping. You won't sell a drop. You can continue to blame those fellow countrymen that you hate so deeply and get a warm and fuzzy that you are the "okay" ones, though because that is the way that you are.
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I agree CC, in that there are politics at play here that most of us are not aware of. There is also the constant increase in volume coming out of Alberta, out of the oilsands in particular. The existing pipelines out of Alberta, chiefly the Keystone and Kinder Morgan are running at capacity, and rail traffic is increasing steadily, all the the while more and more production capacity is coming online in the oilsands. With depressed prices per barrel, producers are hoping to gain back profits in the form of increased volume, but that is all moot if they can't get it to market.
It would if the governments in these provinces sat down and hammered out a deal.
Do I oppose free trade. No, we need to be able to trade, but I oppose trading with tyrannical states like Saudi Arabia or China.
Canada has the most effed up trade deals, even with the United States. We tax our own country into the ground while giving tax breaks to other countries. You can buy Canadian goods outside the country cheaper than within.
And of course the proposal of carbon taxes is just another way of stealing from the public.
Who do you folks think that cost get passed onto?
The complacency of Canadians and the utter lack of will and naivete is really disheartening.
Only 49% of oil goes to fuel.
The other 51% is used in manufactured goods and health.
Does ON want in on Canadian sourced "other" or not?
If you don't, Western Canada will.
The other 51% is used in manufactured goods and health.
Does ON want in on Canadian sourced "other" or not?
If you don't, Western Canada will.
Crude oil in the volumes intended to flow through energy East requires the use of solvents to thin it out. What is used is a refined product that easily cooks into fuels and various other light esters for goods and medicines. It would take two years tops to construct a refinery that removes and brews off these products leaving crude to export that cuts Irving out of the picture.
What say does Ontario or Quebec have in any of it? How do we demand "Canadian Sourced" anything from a system totally controlled by foreigners for their benefit?
You live in a democracy. You have an MP. Everyone in Canada has an MP. If Canadians weren't so complacent we could make substantial changes.
I do e-mail my MP, usually to propose freer trade, freer immigration, and ideas to promote greater administrative efficiency.
Do I pass the grade?
Yes, I wish more Canadian's did the same. But your love affair with carbon taxes is appalling.
You only have action in the West until you stop digging money out of the ground then you go "Oh, well" pull up stakes and move on. There are the skeletons of communities just like that all over the West. When the oil is gone and the water is gone, Calgary will end up like Detroit, a has-been place with no reason to exist.
Think this guy is going to ask for better gps aps for people who use them? (now would be a good time for the prisoner and staff of one certain prison hit him up and the validity of some publications compared to real world applications)
News - Nunavut MLA and family lost for nine days in the Arctic - The Weather Network
Why would it be in the west's advantage/interest to increase financial growth past a certain point if that income is just taken away and handed to Provinces like Ontario and Quebec? Ontario has enough agricultural land if they swapped out crops like tobacco for pot. medical pot with the seeds coming from BC 'outlaw growers'. Grind it up, rate it's potency and mix with other blends so the thc content is the same across a certain level but aroma and taste differs. The Great Lakes should be fished like the Grand Banks were, Canada doing the maintenance of the water and the US processing the catches and the profits are fed back into both areas with the goal being increased production equates to a lower prices for the locals and a high demand for the (very healthy) fish on a foreign market. That would include people in the west.
Then it was obviously overbuilt in the first place, which is true. Why are the lakes not part of the income for every Province/State that has a shoreline rather than all the money being sank into mines, that always have a finite life. The lakes are natural for a renewable resource and anybody with a fish ponds knows the fish grow way too fast when being 'overfed'. On a larger scale on the lakes the feeding could promote the schools of fish to move from area to area in a controlled manner. The 'flatlands' have lots of sloughs and shallow lakes that are green with algae because of the phosphate that runs off the fields. That could be harvested and shipped east and dumped in the water where there are alge eating fish.
If we can't come up with simple and effective plans then we are bound to become a failed state. Calgary and other places that are seeing vacancies rise could become full again if the east starts running out of heating oil. That is all it would take to make the West look the the EU when overwhelmed by unwanted immigrants.
These are not fishponds. They are no leaping with fish. Various things have devastated the Great Lakes fishery over the last couple of centuries ...MAJOR pollution from the sixty million people living on their banks, for one (although, they ARE getting cleaner, right now). The biggest devastator of the native fishery has been wave after wave of invasive species that outright destroy or subtley displacing native species. When the St.Lawrence Seaway system opened up the Lakes to species like Lamprey Eels that wiped out the already vulnerable native Atlantic Salmon. They are gone forever and they were replaced by Coho (by Fisheries people) that grow to the size of submarines but are not recommended for human consumption more often than once a year, uless you don't mind getting Minimata Disease. Species after species have come acropper. The sweet and delicious Perch are being wiped out by invader Carp that are only fit to feed to kittycats.the Zebra Mussels, brought in from Eastern Europe in bilge water, are removing ALL of the nutrients from the water column, leaving sterile deserts behind them.
Just like on the Grand Banks, the commercial Fisheries are practically wiped out and so are the species that sustained them.
The Great Lakes are a major environmental disaster that will take a hundred years plus to right, if it is even possible. There are fresh invaders being brought in (illegally) in ballast water in ships from every foul mud hole on this planet. The Lakes are filling up with inedible pests
Just like on the Grand Banks, the commercial Fisheries are practically wiped out and so are the species that sustained them.
The Great Lakes are a major environmental disaster that will take a hundred years plus to right, if it is even possible. There are fresh invaders being brought in (illegally) in ballast water in ships from every foul mud hole on this planet. The Lakes are filling up with inedible pests
For those of you that don't understand, here's a brief - yes, it's Wikipedia - that will explain how and why oil doesn't flow from west to east as easily as most reasonably expect it should. It also explains the mindset of the major players in 1961 and again, with Justin's father, in 1980.
You people sure like to argue about stuff. Facts checks are good things to do. Most will be interested in starting at - National Oil Policy (1961) - although a good rounding demands you read the entire page.
Just before you go, does anyone remember the complaints from Ontario drivers through the 1960s about paying more at the pumps than Quebec and the Maritimes? I do. We were talking about that this afternoon. It came up in conversation at a gathering this afternoon. It was NOT inspired by anything read here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Canada#National_Oil_Policy_.281961.29
You people sure like to argue about stuff. Facts checks are good things to do. Most will be interested in starting at - National Oil Policy (1961) - although a good rounding demands you read the entire page.
Just before you go, does anyone remember the complaints from Ontario drivers through the 1960s about paying more at the pumps than Quebec and the Maritimes? I do. We were talking about that this afternoon. It came up in conversation at a gathering this afternoon. It was NOT inspired by anything read here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Canada#National_Oil_Policy_.281961.29