On the status of Canada's First Nations.

[Machjo]

I had a bit of free time today, and was looking for information on Canada's First Nations that I couldn't find on line, so I strolled down to the headquarters of the Assembly of First Nations (I could have e-mailed them or phoned, but had an hour anyway, so might as well gor for a stroll) to see if I culd get the information I was looking for there.

While I was talking with one lady (I forget her name, but she really was helpful and friendly), she'd mentioned at one point in the conversation that the Conservatives were trying to force the First Nations to accept Canadian citizenship, but that the First Nations reject it.

Since that's not the topic I was there for, and time was starting to run short, I'd decided to not ask for further explanation. Leaving the building though, I have to admit that the comment came back to mind, and really peaked my curiosity. I wasn't so surprised by the comment overall (though I don't have any Aboriginal friends anymore, I used to and so it's not the first time I hear that they reject Canadian citizenship). What did surprise me, however, was the comment that the Conservatives were trying to force them to acept Canadian citizenship, and that this rejection ws comming from a member of the AFN (though that part didn't surprise me too much). About the Conservatives tryng to pressure them to accept Canadian citizenship was a first for me, as I'd never heard of this on the news (though I'm sure there's plenty of backdoor negotiations and so I'm sure the AFN knows some stuff we don't). Also, what exactly did she mean? I'm not sure, but certainly am curious.

As for First Nations rejecting Canadian citizenship, I am curious as to the legal status though. Does the Canadian government recognize them as citizens but they choose not to recognize themselves as such (I imagine that must be the case since they certainly don't have their own ambassador at the UN or their own passports), or is there some other legal status I don't know about?

Also, How many First Nations reject Canadian citizenship? I know some are in the military, and I can't imagine them rejecting Canadian citizenship. So though I've heard of many First Nations rejecting Canadian citizenship, I'm sure at least some might accept it. I'd be curious to see the stats on this, to see just what percentage accepts it, and what percentage rejects it.

With their recent history, I can't say that I particularly blame them for not wanting to acknowledge this citizenship. But again, I am curious about their status none-the-less.

Does anyone know any more on this?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

No federal govt will force Indians to accept Cdn citizenship. It's like Quebec and the BQ, no tough questions. They would simply say if pressed, Indians use a Cdn passport to travel so they accept Cdn citizenship. Some do some don't and don't worry, it's not an issue. This issue never makes it into the media.

When Indians travel they must carry a passport saying they are Canadians, otherwise they could never leave the country. Since only Canadian citizens can get a passport, one wonders how these non-Canadians, Indians, can get a passport. Perhaps the fed. govt has some special secret protocol here for Indians, but most likely Indians are registered with all the proper organizations saying they have been in Canada for decades and centuries so they qualify for a Canadian passport.

Now that even the USA is requiring passports this could be a problem for Indians. Especially since many Indians prefer to call themselves "North Americans" which neatly skirts the issue of whether they are Canadians or not. Yet, half of North America is starting to reject them-(the USA). With the USA having doubts about the Jay treaty since they want security on their borders, expect the USA to push this issue, since there is no political will in Canada to do anything about this.

 

[Cliffy]

With the USA having doubts about the Jay treaty since they want security on their borders,

I don't see this surprising anybody. They have not honoured a single treaty to date. Canada is not far behind the US on that one. That is why the Lakota Nation declared independence from the US in 2007.
Independent Lakota Nation - World Awareness Revolution - tribe.net

 

[AnnaG]

My father isn't Canadian, but I preferred to be Canadian of aboriginal origin. My kids are Canadian, too, as Canada doesn't recognize the children of female aboriginals as being aboriginal except under special circumstances. The kids of male natives are granted native status without question, though.
I don't feel any particular allegiance to Canada, even if I have citizenship, and that's mostly because of how bloody idiotic the gov'ts have been. Anyway, that's my end of the issue. I know a few others who refused to be treated with special status, too.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

With the USA having doubts about the Jay treaty since they want security on their borders,

I don't see this surprising anybody. They have not honoured a single treaty to date. Canada is not far behind the US on that one. That is why the Lakota Nation declared independence from the US in 2007.
Independent Lakota Nation - World Awareness Revolution - tribe.net

The Lakota, formerly called the Sioux have to get a passport to travel that says USA on it. The USA is just letting treaties fall into disuse because other bigger issues have taken hold in the country.

People are forgetting the Sioux, people will have no clue who the Lakota are. A good way to encourage obscurity and irrelevance. Bad bad marketing, if fewer and fewer know who you are, your voice fades. Lakota? Pardon me while I yawn.

People still know the Sioux, they know Sitting Bull and Buffalo Bill. Real people, real bullets, real history.

 

[petros]

What does it mean to be a citizen of Canada versus being a person living in Canada?

 

[ironsides]

American Indian tribes want more time to develop ID cards for use at the Canadian border.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By Krista J. Kapralos
Herald Writer
Local American Indians say they shouldn't be forced to comply when new passport requirements go into effect on June 1 along the U.S. border with Canada.

Federal homeland security officials agreed to allow tribes to create their own identification cards, as long as they are enhanced with security chips. Tulalip tribal leaders agreed to develop ID cards for several area tribes, along with a database that would link to computers at the border, but they're not sure they'll be able to create them in time.

http://www.heraldnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090330/NEWS01/703309897/0/opinion&template=printart
[/FONT]

 

[captain morgan]

Citizens, by definition, will be entitled to the full complement of services provided by the gvt/society. Similarly, those same citizens are bound by the laws an obligations dictated by society.

Someone living here (ie not a citizen) are bound by the laws but not entitled to teh same benefits.

 

[EagleSmack]

With the USA having doubts about the Jay treaty since they want security on their borders,

I don't see this surprising anybody. They have not honoured a single treaty to date. Canada is not far behind the US on that one. That is why the Lakota Nation declared independence from the US in 2007.
Independent Lakota Nation - World Awareness Revolution - tribe.net

How is that "revolution" coming?

Two years in the making and I am just hearing about it here on CanCon.

 

[EagleSmack]

Native Americans are pretty much allowed to do what they want provided they do not violate the laws of the US.

A case in point. In Rhode Island the Native Americans were selling cigarettes without attaching state taxes. The Rhode Island State Troopers went into the reservation and closed the place down and seized their cigarette stock.

Not sure what happened in court.

 

[ironsides]

With the USA having doubts about the Jay treaty since they want security on their borders,

I don't see this surprising anybody. They have not honoured a single treaty to date. Canada is not far behind the US on that one. That is why the Lakota Nation declared independence from the US in 2007.
Independent Lakota Nation - World Awareness Revolution - tribe.net

On December 20, 2007, a group of Lakota Representatives under the name Lakota Freedom Delegation traveled to Washington D.C. to announce a withdrawal of the Lakota Sioux from all treaties with the United States government.[11]. To be precise.

 

[Unforgiven]

As always talk is cheap. Declaring something is meaningless unless something material comes with that declaration.

 

[EagleSmack]

Exactly. No difference than Vermont declaring it's independence from the US. Even funnier was the movement on Martha's Vineyard, an island off Massachusetts, declaring it's independence from the US.

Page 4 off the Boston Herald.

 

[EagleSmack]

But hey... if you want to join Vermont...here is the website! :lol:

Free Vermont » FreeVermont.Net “200 Towns” Campaign

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

American Indian tribes want more time to develop ID cards for use at the Canadian border.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By Krista J. Kapralos
Herald Writer
Local American Indians say they shouldn't be forced to comply when new passport requirements go into effect on June 1 along the U.S. border with Canada.

Federal homeland security officials agreed to allow tribes to create their own identification cards, as long as they are enhanced with security chips. Tulalip tribal leaders agreed to develop ID cards for several area tribes, along with a database that would link to computers at the border, but they're not sure they'll be able to create them in time.

http://www.heraldnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090330/NEWS01/703309897/0/opinion&template=printart
[/FONT]

Indians seem to be in a grey zone of living on land what is now called Canada and the USA but not being full citizens. Interesting how ID cards can sometimes be substituted for passports, which allows Indians to cross the "North American" border of Canada and the US. But these ID cards won't work for Britain, Chile, Japan, Egypt or any other country.

Because we believe in equality, such a modern benevolent attitude can run roughshod over people like Indians who desire special status because previous, mostly foreign British govts, gave it to them.

The first rule of economics is that you can't push stimulus, in that you can't push a string. So we can't force people to want to be equal.

 

[EagleSmack]

Native Americans/First Nation having their own cards is sort of a...

"Sure why not...you can make your own cards."

...move by the US (and Canada I guess).

But I think when they want to enter OTHER countries...

"Passport please." (said in a number of foreign languages)

 

[petros]

Native Americans/First Nation having their own cards is sort of a...

"Sure why not...you can make your own cards."

...move by the US (and Canada I guess).

But I think when they want to enter OTHER countries...

"Passport please." (said in a number of foreign languages)

Spanish and Portugese?

 

[EagleSmack]

Spanish and Portugese?

Yup...German, Russian, etc.

 

[ironsides]

Native Americans in the U.S. are full citizens and can go, live anywhere they want. Most of the major Nations are a nation unto themselves. Any native American living and working on tribal lands only has to pay taxes to that particular nation, move off and your a regular citizen.

When they move off or travel for example to Canada, or any place in the world they have to do what every American citizen has to do. I find nothing wrong with that.