Omnibus Russia Ukraine crisis

[The_Foxer]

The Left does seem determined to repeat the mistakes of the Right. Bookburners and suchlike. You'd think they'd draw the parallel between how the censorship and bookburning and jailing didn't stop them and. . . but alas! no.

Well the one thing you've said here that gets universal buy in and is often quoted is your comment that politics is not a line, it's a horseshoe. Such things are really the realm of the totalitarian rather than the left or the right per se, authortarians on either side will see the 'advantages' of attacking people who speak things they don't like.

Freedom is hard. Freedom means accepting that bad people will say bad things. And think and even do things you dont' approve of. That's not easy to live with. But i think we need to really push for that. "I dont' agree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death..." and all that good stuff. These days that is pushed to the wayside.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Ironic you mention book burning...

Yep, nice to see the assholishness exists on both sides.

Might almost make a body believe that it's more a characteristic of power than of politics, but nah! We all know OUR side is far too wonderful to do such terrible things!

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

It does not say anywhere in there what you personally can do. It specifically was in reply to your comment:
"At a hockey game one voices ones freedom of expression with boos and cheers. "

We were discussing booing because of someon'es political posiiton. You made the above statement. When people are booing or cheering at a hockey game, they are not doing so in order to present their approval of the players political position. We both know that's true. It doesn't say someone can't boo for a different reason but if you're trying to claim the reason people boo is because they don't like player's politics, rather than they don't like the call the ref just made, we both would know that's a lie.

And interestingly i HAD already clarified that. I specifically said you were free in this country to act like a facist dictator and attempt to censor and cancel people if you want to. The left does it all the time. So i was very clear you COULD do it. I very specifically said that - and that what i was saying is given that in retrospect why would you want to?

So your "confusion" over my meaning seems pretty silly. Kinda sounds more like you got caught in a lie and are looking for a way out. But whatever.

I didn't peg you for the left wing idolizing Putin-friendly cancel culture type but to be clear yes, if that's the kind of person you want to be then you absolutely can choose to be so. Nobody's stopping you. IN fact - do it to the right people and justin will sing your praises.

You are making assumptions about why people are booing or not booing. I don't see anything wrong with people booing someone for their political opinions. That does not make them facist dictators. Had OV actually done anything of note in yesterday's game I would have booed because of his ties with Poutine. My choice. I don't care what others would have done.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Well the one thing you've said here that gets universal buy in and is often quoted is your comment that politics is not a line, it's a horseshoe. Such things are really the realm of the totalitarian rather than the left or the right per se, authortarians on either side will see the 'advantages' of attacking people who speak things they don't like.

Freedom is hard. Freedom means accepting that bad people will say bad things. And think and even do things you dont' approve of. That's not easy to live with. But i think we need to really push for that. "I dont' agree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death..." and all that good stuff. These days that is pushed to the wayside.

Nonsense. Freedom is easy and wonderful.

My freedom, that is. YOUR freedom, not so much.

Remember the old saying: Your freedom ends where my feelings begin. (That appears to be the actual saying. It apparently was altered just a bit for PR purposes.)

 

[The_Foxer]

Ironic you mention book burning...

Umm - restricting books to children in their place of learning is not book burning. We don't allow the teachers to give them playboys either.

But nice try

However - it walks a line and many are uncomfortable with how close that does come. Jorden peterson has been speaking against florida's attempts to 'ban CRT' because of the problems of censorship that spring from it

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Umm - restricting books to children in their place of learning is not book burning. We don't allow the teachers to give them playboys either.

But nice try

However - it walks a line and many are uncomfortable with how close that does come. Jorden peterson has been speaking against florida's attempts to 'ban CRT' because of the problems of censorship that spring from it

I had a girlfriend whose kids (12 and 9 at the time) would ask me questions about sex. I answered frankly and freely. The 12-year-old was fascinated. The 9-year-old quickly grew bored. To him it was complicated, academic, and uninteresting. I imagine that changed a few years later.

 

[The_Foxer]

You are making assumptions about why people are booing or not booing.

No, i'm a canadian male, i've been to hockey games and i have a brian. So i'm aware that when people cheer or boo, it's not generally a reflection of their opinion on the ref or the players politics. I'lll bet you any amount you care to mention that if we go to a game and ask 100 people every time the croud cheers or boos if they did so with the intent of commenting on the player's politics that we'll find the vast majority will say no.

Now are you about done pretending otherwise or are you going to stick to the idiotic idea that people cheering or booing at a hockey game are doing so to express their opinion of the player's politics in the vast vast majority of cases.

I don't see anything wrong with people booing someone for their political opinions. That does not make them facist dictators.

Sure it does. Well - at heart anyway. You go to someone's work and try to get them cancelled by attacking them not for their work but for their politics. It's authoritarian, it's totalitarian, it's dictatorial.

That's not in question. That's pretty obvious. What I"M asking is .. is that who we want to be? Or do we want to be the kind of people who will tolerate others having an opinion we don't like without attempting to attack them for it, and not let that define all our interactions with them.

I believe in freedom and free speech So i believe we can disagrree even passionately about politics and other things and still at the end of the day set that aside and not try to harm each other's lives over it.

You don't. You believe in supressing those with a dissenting point of view. It's very dictatorial. But -that is your choice. I"m simply pointing out that it may not be the best choice and you should think about that.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Since when is booing suppressing?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

No, i'm a canadian male, i've been to hockey games and i have a brian.

So THAT's where Brian got to!

 

[The_Foxer]

I had a girlfriend whose kids (12 and 9 at the time) would ask me questions about sex. I answered frankly and freely. The 12-year-old was fascinated. The 9-year-old quickly grew bored. To him it was complicated, academic, and uninteresting. I imagine that changed a few years later.

It may well have. Children age at different rates and at some point he'd have been interested and it would be up to the parents or guardians etc to assess that and take the appropriate steps. Sounds like you handled it well .

But that really is something that should be left up to the parents or guardians. I'm not sure those children should have been exposed to sexually explicit material for example at age 5. So limiting access to that in their places of education may not be a bad idea

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

It may well have. Children age at different rates and at some point he'd have been interested and it would be up to the parents or guardians etc to assess that and take the appropriate steps. Sounds like you handled it well .

But that really is something that should be left up to the parents or guardians. I'm not sure those children should have been exposed to sexually explicit material for example at age 5. So limiting access to that in their places of education may not be a bad idea

Yeah, I knew a girl whose parents were so repressed and repressive that she didn't realize she had been raped until she was six months along.

Makes me wonder how she ever got conceived. . .

A young farmboy married the lass from the next farm over. On the first night of their honeymoon, the lad's father was surprised to receive a phone call from his son. "Daddy, we're in bed and all, but what am I supposed to do now?" The father just chuckled and said "It's easy, son. Just take the hardest part of your body and stick it in the wettest part of her body." A bit later the girl's mother was equally surprised to receive a call from her daughter. "Mama, how do I get out of this? That dang fool keeps trying to stick his elbow in my mouth!"

 

[The_Foxer]

Since when is booing suppressing?

Since you did it with the intent of attacking someone else for their political views at their job. Why else are you doing it.

I get it - you don't want to be a dictatorial left wing cancel culture type of person - but you still want to actually behave that way. So you're trying to pretend that there's absolutely no meaning to booing him for that and wishing others did as well.

That's not how it works. Sorry for the inconvenience. Either being that kind of person is ok with you or it isn't. Doing it and pretending you're not isn't a thing. Well, it's not a thing anyone else is going to buy, perhaps you can convince yourself if you try hard.

 

[petros]

So what you're saying is that it's not Zelenski's efforts but rather the electrical grid from the donbas region that's winning the war? Or are you saying that until they take back all of donbas they're still losing? That wasn;t quite clear from what you wrote.

Are you high? In our media Zelensky is the hero to Ukrainians it's General Zaluzny.

What year did the USSR fall? Who today wants the Soviet system back and still thinks the thermal power and steel mills are Soviet assets?

After getting their asses kicked in the Battle of Kyiv and then sinking of The Moskva and Azov's stiff resistance it was clear to the Katsaps they weren't getting the Donbass assets back intact. Then came the Kharkiv Offensive which initiated the conscription of Mobiks and the scorched earth "if we can't have it, you can't have it" policy.

Scorched earth is the only exit plan and declaration of losing badly.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Since you did it with the intent of attacking someone else for their political views at their job. Why else are you doing it.

I get it - you don't want to be a dictatorial left wing cancel culture type of person - but you still want to actually behave that way. So you're trying to pretend that there's absolutely no meaning to booing him for that and wishing others did as well.

That's not how it works. Sorry for the inconvenience. Either being that kind of person is ok with you or it isn't. Doing it and pretending you're not isn't a thing. Well, it's not a thing anyone else is going to buy, perhaps you can convince yourself if you try hard.

Since when is "attacking" suppressing? Ovi's a big boy now.

I've seen you attack a good few people hereabouts. Were you trying to suppress them? Cancel them, perhaps?

I recollect when conservatives tried, largely successfully, to "cancel" The Kinks when they finally figured out what "Lola" was about.

 

[The_Foxer]

Yeah, I knew a girl whose parents were so repressed and repressive that she didn't realize she had been raped until she was six months along.

Makes me wonder how she ever got conceived. . .

You'd think that would be something she would have noticed even if they hadn't mentioned sex.

But sure, some parents will make bad choices. THat's just the way some parents are. But the other option is to have the state become responsible for raising all children and taking them away from their parents because they know better. I'd rather live with a few bad parents. I would assume you'd tend to agree with that.

A young farmboy married the lass from the next farm over. On the first night of their honeymoon, the lad's father was surprised to receive a phone call from his son. "Daddy, we're in bed and all, but what am I supposed to do now?" The father just chuckled and said "It's easy, son. Just take the hardest part of your body and stick it in the wettest part of her body." A bit later the girl's mother was equally surprised to receive a call from her daughter. "Mama, how do I get out of this? That dang fool keeps trying to stick his elbow in my mouth!"

Hey - hey - you better not be making fun of the elbowsexuals out there. That's Racist!!!!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You'd think that would be something she would have noticed even if they hadn't mentioned sex.

But sure, some parents will make bad choices. THat's just the way some parents are. But the other option is to have the state become responsible for raising all children and taking them away from their parents because they know better. I'd rather live with a few bad parents. I would assume you'd tend to agree with that.


Hey - hey - you better not be making fun of the elbowsexuals out there. That's Racist!!!!

I think you mean "That's racy!"

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You'd think that would be something she would have noticed even if they hadn't mentioned sex.

But sure, some parents will make bad choices. THat's just the way some parents are. But the other option is to have the state become responsible for raising all children and taking them away from their parents because they know better. I'd rather live with a few bad parents. I would assume you'd tend to agree with that.


Hey - hey - you better not be making fun of the elbowsexuals out there. That's Racist!!!!

How bad are you willing to live with? Abuse? Neglect?

Does the state not have the authority to demand a certain minimum of treatment for children?

I would point out that if you don't want your kids to learn about sexuality in school, a number of options are available without insisting that no kids can learn about sexuality in school.

 

[The_Foxer]

Are you high? In our media Zelensky is the hero to Ukrainians it's General Zaluzny.

No, you just can't write worth shit and i'm trying to figure out what you're saying. Why don't you learn to communicate a bit. Although being high might well help understand your writing a bit more

What year did the USSR fall?

Who's even talking about that? I just asked you to clarify your point. I couldn't tell what you were trying to say for sure. I thought YOU might know what you were trying to say. Are you saying even YOU don't know what your'e talking about? (actually that would explain a lot).

Scorched earth is the only exit plan and declaration of losing badly.

No, they could just leave. Putin for example could 'die tragically' and his successor could end the war stating it was putin's bad idea. And they could be pushed out by force of arms. And if they were pushed out by force of arms that would be 'losing badly' without scorched earth. Do you even know what scorched earth means?

whatever. I don't know why i thought you might have a point to begin with but i thought i'd ask you to clarify what you were trying to say - obviously my mistake. Nevermind

 

[The_Foxer]

How bad are you willing to live with? Abuse? Neglect?

does it matter?

Does the state not have the authority to demand a certain minimum of treatment for children?

Not really. The state has the authority to ensure that the children are not harmed and that the 'necessaries of life' are provided. But not 'minimum treatment' which implies a host of other things.

I would point out that if you don't want your kids to learn about sexuality in school, a number of options are available without insisting that no kids can learn about sexuality in school.

I would point out that if they want to make it a parent's explicit decision to teach sex in school and not do so without such permission that's entirely in keeping with what i said. If they want to make sexually explicit material available to the child without supervision or parental consent, which is what we were discussing, that's something else.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Not really. The state has the authority to ensure that the children are not harmed and that the 'necessaries of life' are provided. But not 'minimum treatment' which implies a host of other things.

In what way is demanding children not be harmed and be provided the necessities of life not a "minimum treatment" level?