Occupy Wall Street's debt buying strikes at the heart of capitalism

[Omicron]

Well all of that is just a big old pile of manure.

Ooo... and with that witicism the argument is settled.

The 1% are the most charitable. Good Grief! AHHHHH. I have just fallen into the trap. Clearly, there are stingy stooged scrooges in all classes. And if one day only a few own everything you can thank Obama and his ilk. Spreading the wealth does NOT work. In so doing, you spread poverty and then the super rich hold on to their coins all more because they don't want what they worked for going to sluggards. They gladly (not all) give to the poor. Look at your philanthropists - they aren't the people making minimum wage. Did you personally get burned by a "corportation" or are you just looking for something to gripe about?

You might want to thank the 1% and the corporations for footing 90% of bill.

In terms of economic effects, I bet you don't know the difference between a rich person spending it to buy goods and services produced by those who work, versus using the money to buy other companies to boost profits, so you can use the bigger profits to buy more companies, so you can use the bigger profits to buy more companies...

Having a person be rich doesn't hurt one damn thing if he spends it back on where he made it from.

In fact, it can help in some interesting ways, because if he's got surplus cash, he might use it to buy a very fancy bicycle made with the finest materials by the most skilled engineers, who wouldn't have been able to show their engineering talent and make a sale if there hadn't been someone rich enough to buy their product.

It's when they *don't* spend it back... when they instead use it to monopolize... that everything goes in the direction which, judging according to behavior, is where the current orchestrator Satan wants it to go, which is hell... dragging the rest of the planet with it.

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy;
Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery” ... Winston Churchill

You do know that Churchill was drunk when he slured out those platitudes, right?

 

[Walter]

I call BS to the whole article. I don't believe a word of it. Why was there not one person who received these so-called letters named as a recipient of said letter? We'd see stories on every lefty website in the US if this was happening.

 

[Omicron]

capitalism ain't working so well anymore either...we need a new system

Yeah... and you know, Gorbachov used to talk about that.

He used to say that Capitalism still has all the intrinsic paradoxical flaws that it always had, so he didn't want to see Russia go back to the beasts (which it did anyway, through a painful process in the late 90's leading to their current system under the Oligarchs) but that the style of communism tried by the Bolshevics - Marxism Leninism - wasn't working either, therefore he used to wonder out loud about a thing he called "The Third Way".

Looks like China's closest to nailing it. Technically they're still communist, and they still enforce some fundamental communist positions, like not allowing a rich person to buy up and control infrastructure essential for all, but they opened it up to Free Enterprise.

This was possible because Free Enterprise is not the same as Capitalism. Free Enterprise is a means of production, whereas Capitalism is a system of ownership.

You'd be *amazed* how many Americans think Free Enterprise and Capitalism are the same thing.

Chinese Communists let Free Enterprise loose, and most Yanks think it means the Communist government in Bejing has turned "Capitalist".

 

[pgs]

Entitlements? Everybody has to be earning money for their entitlements and it is the government’s job to protect the jobs and enforce the laws like illegal aliens taking away jobs that are for the citizens of this country.

Are you a liberal ?

Yes I know. That was my point.

Hmmm if I want to build a mine log a forest or sink a well I am pretty sure I must provide my own access .
I may be wrong .

 

[cj44]

Ooo... and with that witicism the argument is settled.

In terms of economic effects, I bet you don't know the difference between a rich person spending it to buy goods and services produced by those who work, versus using the money to buy other companies to boost profits, so you can use the bigger profits to buy more companies, so you can use the bigger profits to buy more companies...

Having a person be rich doesn't hurt one damn thing if he spends it back on where he made it from.

In fact, it can help in some interesting ways, because if he's got surplus cash, he might use it to buy a very fancy bicycle made with the finest materials by the most skilled engineers, who wouldn't have been able to show their engineering talent and make a sale if there hadn't been someone rich enough to buy their product.

It's when they *don't* spend it back... when they instead use it to monopolize... that everything goes in the direction which, judging according to behavior, is where the current orchestrator Satan wants it to go, which is hell... dragging the rest of the planet with it.



You do know that Churchill was drunk when he slured out those platitudes, right?

Yeah, I am known for my wit.

capitalism ain't working so well anymore either...we need a new system

capitalism is working fine. the problems we are experiencing are due to our nanny government.

 

[Goober]

Corporations pay taxes too.
You might want to thank the 1% and the corporations for footing 90% of bill.

Nope- have a link for those numbers- now while you look I expect you back just after Armageddon.

 

[cj44]

Omicron: What is wrong with ownership? Ownership Good. Free Enterprise Good. Both Good.

Nope- have a link for those numbers- now while you look I expect you back just after Armageddon.

Goober Goober Goober. If you are able, get a look at the 60 Minutes program that aired tonight. They had many billionaires - you know those evil 1% capitalists talking about how they pledged to give 50% of their wealth away to help the poor, the environment, education etc. Of course we will find a few bad apples - some real scrooges that keep every penny they earn - which by the way is their right to do so. But, overall, I find wealthy people to be extrodinarily generous. Can we not be happy for those that have been blessed with wealth?????

Just who in the world do you think pays the majority of taxes???? Do you think it is the folks on food stamps???? Middle Class is getting nailed for sure, but Buffet and Gates are really paying through the nose. Even if they are keeping some in off shore accounts, they are paying a hefty sum. Can't escape the tax man.

 

[Sal]

Yeah... and you know, Gorbachov used to talk about that.

He used to say that Capitalism still has all the intrinsic paradoxical flaws that it always had, so he didn't want to see Russia go back to the beasts (which it did anyway, through a painful process in the late 90's leading to their current system under the Oligarchs) but that the style of communism tried by the Bolshevics - Marxism Leninism - wasn't working either, therefore he used to wonder out loud about a thing he called "The Third Way".

Looks like China's closest to nailing it. Technically they're still communist, and they still enforce some fundamental communist positions, like not allowing a rich person to buy up and control infrastructure essential for all, but they opened it up to Free Enterprise.

This was possible because Free Enterprise is not the same as Capitalism. Free Enterprise is a means of production, whereas Capitalism is a system of ownership.

You'd be *amazed* how many Americans think Free Enterprise and Capitalism are the same thing.

Chinese Communists let Free Enterprise loose, and most Yanks think it means the Communist government in Bejing has turned "Capitalist".

thanks for that explanation ♦

Yeah, I am known for my wit.


capitalism is working fine. the problems we are experiencing are due to our nanny government.

no it isn't working there is enough money to ensure everyone eats and has healthcare and has their basic needs met ... we should be there, instead food stamp usage in your country has risen by 20%, people have lost their jobs...same with here in Ontario... it's all gone to hell in a hand basket because the wealthy are squeezing out the middle class...soon there will be the poor and the rich...guess where we will be...luckily for me, I'm old enough that it won't much matter...it's the grandchildren who will be screwed six ways to Sunday. Hopefully they can clean up this mess we've left for them.

 

[cj44]

thanks for that explanation ♦

no it isn't working there is enough money to ensure everyone eats and has healthcare and has their basic needs met ... we should be there, instead food stamp usage in your country has risen by 20%, people have lost their jobs...same with here in Ontario... it's all gone to hell in a hand basket because the wealthy are squeezing out the middle class...soon there will be the poor and the rich...guess where we will be...luckily for me, I'm old enough that it won't much matter...it's the grandchildren who will be screwed six ways to Sunday. Hopefully they can clean up this mess we've left for them.

Capitalism isn't the reason for social ills. And by the way, everyone in America has enough to eat and we all had access to health care before the great obamacare. Don't believe the lie the liberals are peddaling. The biggest lie is that Americans do not have access to health care. You know St. Jude hospital for children stricken with cancer? They do not charge for their services. The greedy wealthy donate millions every year so no family has to pay a dime!!!!! Food Stamp usage increased because Obama and company wanted it to. And Georgy W. didn't help things in that department either. The wealthy are NOT squeezing the middle class. The wealthy are providing jobs for the middle class. The wealthy are the ones repainting/furnishing their homes every few years. They are the ones buying stuff, lots of stuff, even expensive stuff. That's good. Let them buy yachts and private jets - all good. Those jobs, the yacht builders, designers, jet builders - they make a comfortable wage. The wealthy buy decent clothing - not the five dollar shirts at walmart. Let them spend $200 on a shirt or a pair of socks for that matter. The profit on that $200 pair of socks will support the sock designer, manufacturing manager, sock maker, retail store, and saleslady. The wealthy go to the salon every week to have their face waxed and their toes painted - that is good. Let the wealthy be and let them spend their money and donate their money. We are being squeezed by BIG government and being taxed to death. It's time we have a parade for the wealthy. Tell them to bring their wallets and purses and then unleash them to the shoppes and clothiers and boat builders. Shazaam! Employment for everyone!

So maybe we don't agree on everything, but I really like that hypnotic blue squiggly avatar.

 

[Omicron]

capitalism is working fine. the problems we are experiencing are due to our nanny government.

Oh really. So it was a nanny government, and not capitalism, to cause the meltdwon in 2008 which America has still not recovered from six years later?

Capitalism isn't the reason for social ills.

And that simple statemnet proves it, eh? You're definitely American. I've become tuned to telling the difference by virtue of the absense of premises in American arguments.

And by the way, everyone in America has enough to eat and we all had access to health care before the great obamacare.

Aside from the fact that you've got the highest rate of infant mortality among the industrialized nations, how come what you call "liberals" (with not the same meaning that the other industrialized democracies ascribe to the term), you've got the pro-Obamacare people saying it now brings tens of millions into the fold of having insurance, while on the other hand those of your ilk are saying its reducing the number of people covered?

Who's right? Show us the facts.

Try to answer without saying something simple-minded and blankly robotic like, "They're lying". I've noticed in the States, it's become fashionable to twist the meaning of the word "lying" to include situations where a person thought they were stating the truth, but simply didn't have all the facts.

Lying is when you *know* that what you're saying is not the truth.

Don't believe the lie the liberals are peddaling.

See... you did it.

The biggest lie is ...

And you did it again. That's how I know you're American.

... that Americans do not have access to health care.

Everybody knows Americans have access to health care if they have money and can afford it.

Do you have any idea at all how the rest of the industrialized nations on the planet handle it? They never got all bent up and twisted out of shape like you guys. They just did it. Everyone gets covered, and the premiums are affordable.

Why didn't you just copy Germany or Japan or Canada or Australia or Holland or Taiwanese or French or Italian or any of the other industrial democracy's systesm, and be done with it?

 

[EagleSmack]

Where do corporations get their money?
From your pocket. The loop is closed. There is only one dollar.

Corporations get their money from providing a service or a product. And they pay taxes.

Oh really. So it was a nanny government, and not capitalism, to cause the meltdwon in 2008 which America has still not recovered from six years later?

Correct! A big part was the nanny government.

Aside from the fact that you've got the highest rate of infant mortality among the industrialized nations, how come what you call "liberals" (with not the same meaning that the other industrialized democracies ascribe to the term), you've got the pro-Obamacare people saying it now brings tens of millions into the fold of having insurance, while on the other hand those of your ilk are saying its reducing the number of people covered?

Because millions are losing their coverage.

Everybody knows Americans have access to health care if they have money and can afford it.

And if they are poor. They are and have always been covered 100%.

 

[taxslave]

Are you a liberal ?


Hmmm if I want to build a mine log a forest or sink a well I am pretty sure I must provide my own access .
I may be wrong .

Yes and no. Often the government will provide some infrastructure up front because of the high cost but it is recovered in the form of use fees, royalties etc.

 

[petros]

Yes and no. Often the government will provide some infrastructure up front because of the high cost but it is recovered in the form of use fees, royalties etc.

9 times out of 10 a chunk of Crown land will be set aside as collateral for funding that road as a Provincial Park on that road.

 

[cj44]

Oh really. So it was a nanny government, and not capitalism, to cause the meltdwon in 2008 which America has still not recovered from six years later?



And that simple statemnet proves it, eh? You're definitely American. I've become tuned to telling the difference by virtue of the absense of premises in American arguments.

Aside from the fact that you've got the highest rate of infant mortality among the industrialized nations, how come what you call "liberals" (with not the same meaning that the other industrialized democracies ascribe to the term), you've got the pro-Obamacare people saying it now brings tens of millions into the fold of having insurance, while on the other hand those of your ilk are saying its reducing the number of people covered?

Who's right? Show us the facts.

Try to answer without saying something simple-minded and blankly robotic like, "They're lying". I've noticed in the States, it's become fashionable to twist the meaning of the word "lying" to include situations where a person thought they were stating the truth, but simply didn't have all the facts.

Lying is when you *know* that what you're saying is not the truth.

See... you did it.

And you did it again. That's how I know you're American.

Everybody knows Americans have access to health care if they have money and can afford it.

Do you have any idea at all how the rest of the industrialized nations on the planet handle it? They never got all bent up and twisted out of shape like you guys. They just did it. Everyone gets covered, and the premiums are affordable.

Why didn't you just copy Germany or Japan or Canada or Australia or Holland or Taiwanese or French or Italian or any of the other industrial democracy's systesm, and be done with it?

I guess it is easier to blame American success on us Yankees being greedy - that is the lie you want to believe. You know, before Obamacare, our single mother friend was able to enroll her 2 kids in Kids First State Insurance program for the poor. She had to pay only $25 per kid and that covered all their health needs. You don't hear about that do you? Instead, you want to believe that we throw the poor in the gutter. Now, that single mother will have to $99 per month per kid under obamacare.

We aren't bent up and twisted. We just believe in paying for services. Copy the French? Well, that is comical.

Don't confuse capitalism with financial regulation.

 

[coldstream]

I've always thought that if the Occupy Wall Street could focus.. on the corrupt Wall Street banks, on usury, on financial de-regulation and privatization, on their political coup of democratic institutions by way of campaign financing, of the take over of sovereign national institutions in currency and credit creation, on derivatives, on the impoverishment of vast sectors of the population by way of Free Trade, on steady re-assignment of tax burden from the rich to the poor.. the whole cruddy framework of Globalism.. THEN.. they'd be able to make some inroads into re-establishing a national sustainable economic system, and of rebuilding the Middle Class with policies promoting equitable sharing of wealth.

But they continually got de-focussed and infected by every half baked New Age social agenda that wanted equal billing... AGW and radical environmentalism, feminism, homosexuality and on and on.

This particular initiative is so small, representing far less than 1% of the take home pay of Wall Street CEO, that will have no effect on what seems inevitable now. A Global Financial Collapse by way of a series of shocks like those of 2008, each more devastating than the last. The World's economy has been a bouncing ball for the last 40 years, losing energy every time it hits the ground.

 

[eh1eh]

Corporations get their money from providing a service or a product. And they pay taxes.



Correct! A big part was the nanny government.





Because millions are losing their coverage.





And if they are poor. They are and have always been covered 100%.

They pay taxes with the money we gave them for their product or service. As a matter of fact they pay taxes on profit which is the difference between the cost they incurred providing said products and services and how much they got us to pay for the same.
It's a vicious circle.

 

[EagleSmack]

They pay taxes with the money we gave them for their product or service. As a matter of fact they pay taxes on profit which is the difference between the cost they incurred providing said products and services and how much they got us to pay for the same.
It's a vicious circle.

Which of course was taxed before it hits our bank accounts... and we are taxed when buying products and services.

And service and product providers are taxed to provide these to us.

 

[SLM]

They pay taxes with the money we gave them for their product or service. As a matter of fact they pay taxes on profit which is the difference between the cost they incurred providing said products and services and how much they got us to pay for the same.
It's a vicious circle.

Which of course was taxed before it hits our bank accounts... and we are taxed when buying products and services.

And service and product providers are taxed to provide these to us.

I see where you guys are going with this, it's all the taxmans fault! 8O

That bastard!!

The Beatles - Taxman (2009 Stereo Remaster) - YouTube

 

[taxslave]

Of course it's the taxman's fault. Without taxes your take home income would be double.

 

[SLM]

Of course it's the taxman's fault. Without taxes your take home income would be double.

Well that would be catastrophic.