Occupy Wall Street Fail

[TenPenny]

I'm not trying to destroy capitalism. I'm hoping we can improve it, and stop the robber barons on wall street that are stealing from the economy, just like the railroad robber barons of old.

I know that some won't / can't see it, so perhaps it's simpler just to carry on, and let the taxpayers have their money taken to give bonuses to the folks who play with paper.

 

[GreenFish66]

Occupy Wall Street?

What do they have to offer us? Consider a complex machine which works but not perfectly. Anyone can destroy it; no advanced knowledge is usually needed to accomplish this. But one has to be highly knowledgeable in order to repair it, or to design a better replacement. I am thinking about sophisticated engines, airplanes, TV sets, X ray scanners, computers, airconditioners, oil refineries, etc.

The same is true for an economic system. No system is perfect; but some are more efficient than others. Trying to destroy US capitalism *without offering something better is likely to create a lot of misery. I am thinking about what Lenin and Stalin did, as decribed in my two short books. These books are now freely available online; the links are at:

Diary of a former Polish communist; two free books on-line

Note that even now, one hundred years after the Soviet revolution, standards of living in Russia are much lower than in the US, and in other western countries.

Ludwik Kowalski*(see Wikipedia)
.

Something better?......

Green/Clean Tech ...Is Now...Is the best way to ensure a Prosperous/Sustainable Future for all .....

Top 1% saw their wealth grow by 300% in last 10-15 yrs..They own 40% of the Globe...The rest are Capitalists...Who like to control the masses with their own (Market)interest in mind...

Capitalist/Dictators Hold Philosophical beliefs Like ;" Keep the Zombie Slave Drones Poor/Busy makin us money.They Don't/Can't over throw us.." ...kinda idea...

Nothing has changed too much in the last...say ...5000 yrs....really ...Relatively speaking ...Huge Pyramind scheme, where the Rich continue to try to Fool/Trick the Poor into believing, Wealth will trickle Down...It's largely Myth/Story/Fraction/B.S.

Some more Capitalistic Philosophical/Market beliefs - The ol' Trickle Down/Golden Shower Philosophy/Formula...." = Piss on em' all."...Or.." If they ain't making US $..They ain't worth the Time/(or maybe that's)Dime."....

Well they ain't foolin anyone anymore..

--------------------------------------------------

T.Roosevelt - " The Government aught not, to conduct the business of this country, but it aught to regulate it, so that it shall be conducted, in the interest of the public..........."
- " Eye to the Stars/Feet on the Ground ...."

Today would be - Feet on the ground ...(Let's all )Head to the stars....

All for 1, and 1 for all ...And all that other, philosophical drivel ...



Peace...

 

[JLM]

I'm not trying to destroy capitalism. I'm hoping we can improve it, and stop the robber barons on wall street that are stealing from the economy, just like the railroad robber barons of old.

I know that some won't / can't see it, so perhaps it's simpler just to carry on, and let the taxpayers have their money taken to give bonuses to the folks who play with paper.

Being sort of an unsophisticated country boy who grew up in the boondocks, I'm not quite clear on who exactly on Wall St. you are referring to. Are you talking day traders who make their money "selling short"? Or insider trading, which in Canada is against the law? Can you bring me up to speed in a couple of short sentences? Thank you. :smile:

 

[TenPenny]

Being sort of an unsophisticated country boy who grew up in the boondocks, I'm not quite clear on who exactly on Wall St. you are referring to. Are you talking day traders who make their money "selling short"? Or insider trading, which in Canada is against the law? Can you bring me up to speed in a couple of short sentences? Thank you. :smile:

'Wall Street' is shorthand for JPMorgan, Citibank, Bank of America, and Goldman Sachs derivatives units, and all who work for them.

I know it's hard for you to grasp, try reading 'Forbes' magazine for a few months, you'll learn a lot.

 

[JLM]

'Wall Street' is shorthand for JPMorgan, Citibank, Bank of America, and Goldman Sachs derivatives units, and all who work for them.

I know it's hard for you to grasp, try reading 'Forbes' magazine for a few months, you'll learn a lot.

Thank you.

 

[TenPenny]

See, an interesting thing happened a few years ago.

The Wall St companies (the ones in the background, that 90% of people have never heard of) hire the math wizards from MIT and the like.

One of them developed an equation that was said to quantify risk of things that were impossible to quantify. And everyone fell in love with the equation. He became a multimillionaire, of course, but what happened is that all of the Wall St firms started using this equation to rate the risk of investments that could not be rated before.

This led to the huge boom in packages of sketchy mortgages, all bundled together, because this equation could generate a risk based on taking 450,000,000 dollars worth of worthless mortgages, and lumping them together. Somehow, this equation made this collection of excrement into an investment grade item. All of the Wall St firms jumped onto this money-spinning machine, and it was great while it lasted. But in the end, **** is ****, and when the mortgages all went to hell (as they were destined to do), the equation that everyone used didn't hold up any more.

And yet, everyone on Wall St still gets multimillion dollar bonuses, for packing **** and selling it to each other.

There was a great article about the equation and its inventor in Wired Magazine a year or two ago, it was fascinating.

 

[Cliffy]

That video I posted a few pages back, Meltdown, by the CBC is also a wealth of information about how this whole mess came down and who orchestrated it.

 

[JLM]

See, an interesting thing happened a few years ago.

The Wall St companies (the ones in the background, that 90% of people have never heard of) hire the math wizards from MIT and the like.

One of them developed an equation that was said to quantify risk of things that were impossible to quantify. And everyone fell in love with the equation. He became a multimillionaire, of course, but what happened is that all of the Wall St firms started using this equation to rate the risk of investments that could not be rated before.

This led to the huge boom in packages of sketchy mortgages, all bundled together, because this equation could generate a risk based on taking 450,000,000 dollars worth of worthless mortgages, and lumping them together. Somehow, this equation made this collection of excrement into an investment grade item. All of the Wall St firms jumped onto this money-spinning machine, and it was great while it lasted. But in the end, **** is ****, and when the mortgages all went to hell (as they were destined to do), the equation that everyone used didn't hold up any more.

And yet, everyone on Wall St still gets multimillion dollar bonuses, for packing **** and selling it to each other.

There was a great article about the equation and its inventor in Wired Magazine a year or two ago, it was fascinating.

Well, those F****rs should all be in jail sharing a single cell with Bernie Madoff. :lol:

 

[Colpy]

I'm not trying to destroy capitalism. I'm hoping we can improve it, and stop the robber barons on wall street that are stealing from the economy, just like the railroad robber barons of old.

I know that some won't / can't see it, so perhaps it's simpler just to carry on, and let the taxpayers have their money taken to give bonuses to the folks who play with paper.

I absolutely agree.

Unfortunately, you have just outlined the problem much better than anyone that I have seen interviewed from the OWS movement.

And I'm still not sure what the solution is........but it will not be reached by people camping out in public parks.

 

[Locutus]

Riot police arrest "Occupy Oakland" protesters

Oakland police say they arrested 75 people while clearing an anti-Wall Street protest in front of City Hall that had grown into an encampment with dozens of tents. Most of the people arrested were taken into custody on suspicion of misdemeanor illegal lodging, as police raided the encampment around 5 a.m. Tuesday.
Interim Oakland Police Chief Howard Jordan said at a news conference later in the morning that hundreds of officers and sheriff's deputies from more than 12 agencies moved in on about 170 protesters.
He said police fired beanbag rounds and tear gas, but no one was injured. Television news footage showed protesters being taken away in plastic cuffs without incident, although an officer did fire a non-lethal projectile from a shotgun at a protester who lobbed a bottle, authorities told the San Francisco Chronicle.





Riot police arrest "Occupy Oakland" protesters - CBS News

Police tear gas Occupy Oakland protesters



Break cop car window, burn trash cans and throw paint at the police eh.


Ok then, gtfo. :lol:

Telegraph thermal imaging video at protest camp show most tents are empty




Images taken by the Telegraph confirm that many of tents on the encampment outside St Paul's Cathedral are actually empty


Infra red images taken by a police helicopter during the early hours show that only around 20 of the 200 tents on the encampment actually have people staying in them.

The Daily Telegraph has shot its own video of the St Paul's camp using thermal imaging equipment which appears to confirm these claims.

The footage, shot at 1230am on Tuesday Oct 25 shows a multitude of darkly coloured tents around the courtyard indicating those that were unoccupied.

It would appear most of the protesters are heading home to sleep in their own beds at night rather than staying onsite.

On Monday the revelation was described as a "charade" and pressure was growing on the church and other authorities to evict the camp.





Video: Telegraph thermal imaging video at protest camp show most tents are empty - Telegraph

 

[ironsides]

I'll admit that those bonuses given to corporate executives were obscene.but the company earned that money (it is their money) and as long as stock holders are happy can do pretty much anything they want with it. When those executives were hired, I am pretty sure those bonuses were factored into their contracts.

Today it probably still goes on but not as much in the open.. Capitalism is the only way to go and make money.

 

[MHz]

I'll admit that those bonuses given to corporate executives were obscene.but the company earned that money (it is their money) and as long as stock holders are happy can do pretty much anything they want with it. When those executives were hired, I am pretty sure those bonuses were factored into their contracts.

Today it probably still goes on but not as much in the open.. Capitalism is the only way to go and make money.

Those bonus do not come out of company profits from dining business. They bailouts come from taxpayers via a Government sanctioned 'gift' because the 'administrators' failed at running a business that was profitable and that means the stock-holders should see their stocks tumble in price and how happy would they be about that?

The banks and companies are not responsible for paying back that money, the taxpayers who are not stockholders or employees are the ones footing the bills so how can you claim that the various companies earned it when banker fraud saw some in Iceland being sent to jail for the same sort of activity.

Also, why are US taxpayers no supporting bailouts in Europe with the same deal, they pay the debt their Gov create via bailout funds, this isn't chimp change were're talking about.

 

[TenPenny]

I'll admit that those bonuses given to corporate executives were obscene.but the company earned that money (it is their money) and as long as stock holders are happy can do pretty much anything they want with it. When those executives were hired, I am pretty sure those bonuses were factored into their contracts.

Today it probably still goes on but not as much in the open.. Capitalism is the only way to go and make money.

The company did not EARN that money if it was going bankrupt and needed to be bailed out.

 

[Cliffy]

[/FONT]

The company did not EARN that money if it was going bankrupt and needed to be bailed out.

I'm amazed at the number of posters who support the right of the rich to screw the people and get well paid to do it. How many millions of people have suffered from these assholes' mismanagement of money? And now we see some here defend their right to pocket their tax dollars for doing such a piss poor job. Just not possible to wrap my mind around this nonsense.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who support the right of the rich to screw the people and get well paid to do it. How many millions of people have suffered from these assholes' mismanagement of money? And now we see some here defend their right to pocket their tax dollars for doing such a piss poor job. Just not possible to wrap my mind around this nonsense.

It seems that some people seem to be going off about regular corporations and their bonuses rather than just the ones that took public money and issued bonuses. Had the critisism remained focused, I would find it hard to find too many that would have supported that.

I hope the government has learned a valuable lesson in future bailout stategies. Bankruptcy is a viable option and usually the end of a mismanaged company.

 

[JLM]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who support the right of the rich to screw the people and get well paid to do it. How many millions of people have suffered from these assholes' mismanagement of money? And now we see some here defend their right to pocket their tax dollars for doing such a piss poor job. Just not possible to wrap my mind around this nonsense.

I agree with you about 95% Cliff. There is no f*cking way C.E.O.s of companies who are in the red should be receiving obscene (or any) bonuses. Same with the ones who get rich in any dishonest manner. BUT there is an onus on the rest to educate ourselves to a point, where we don't fall into these traps. You can cut your losses by just practicing a few simple things like don't carry over debt on credit cards. Never, never, never buy ANYTHING where you aren't the initiater of the purchase. If you are buying anything over about $10, sleep on it overnight to see if you actually really need it. I haven't been in Nakusp for a few years, are the Wall St. types starting to move in there? :lol:

 

[karrie]

I'm jumping into this thread way late, so I'm not even going to try to catch up. But I do have two different things I want to say.

1. There are a few things about current corporate culture that really get my goat. Probably the biggest one is the incentive for higher ups to fire people in order to protect their bonus structure. I'm not big on legislating business, but, if there's one I can get behind it's that lay offs and bailouts should preclude managers from bonuses.

2. Here in Alberta, we have 'occupy' protests going on, despite the fact that tons of people I know, can't get anyone to occupy a JOB. Welders, mechanics, appliance installers.... good paying jobs... no one to fill them. So, if we have more jobs than we have people to fill them, are we really justified, here, in piggy backing on the 'occupy' protests? Seriously?

 

[EagleSmack]

I'm jumping into this thread way late, so I'm not even going to try to catch up. But I do have two different things I want to say.

1. There are a few things about current corporate culture that really get my goat. Probably the biggest one is the incentive for higher ups to fire people in order to protect their bonus structure. I'm not big on legislating business, but, if there's one I can get behind it's that lay offs and bailouts should preclude managers from bonuses.

I'm with you there. If a corporation gets a public bailout they should not be getting their massive bonuses and their books should be open for scrutiny.

2. Here in Alberta, we have 'occupy' protests going on, despite the fact that tons of people I know, can't get anyone to occupy a JOB. Welders, mechanics, appliance installers.... good paying jobs... no one to fill them. So, if we have more jobs than we have people to fill them, are we really justified, here, in piggy backing on the 'occupy' protests? Seriously?

I hear that too. Those jobs that you described are hard jobs. I've done many. After I got out of the Marines and before I picked up my trade I did landscaping, roofing, drywall, and stucco. It's hard and not so glamorous work. But it is work and I did it to keep going before I finally got accepted into what I wanted. These folks simply have no desire to bust their azz and work. Just listen to them speak. They want to do what they want to do.

So OK... let's say we tax corporations the way they want. Then what? Do they just want to sit around and get paid to do nothing?

 

[JLM]

These folks simply have no desire to bust their azz and work. Just listen to them speak. They want to do what they want to do.

So OK... let's say we tax corporations the way they want. Then what? Do they just want to sit around and get paid to do nothing?

Yeah, it's just part of the feeling of entitlement that some folks under 50 think is their perfect right, known as "Screw you Jack, I'm alright".

 

[EagleSmack]

Yeah, it's just part of the feeling of entitlement that some folks under 50 think is their perfect right, known as "Screw you Jack, I'm alright".

Also the "20 Somethings" that just got out of college with their degree in Communications saying...

"Screw that... I'm not getting dirty...I'm a college graduate."