Objection to some astronomers.

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I tell you what I told one of my Christian colleagues who once said to me: "No difference between us whether Christians or Muslims!"
I said: "No difference in citizenship, in salary in justice and in common rights... true. But if you do not believe in God as One (not Trinity) and in the Quran, then you will lose in the Hereafter."
So he resented and was angry and could not withstand this; even he told me to go out of his room.
Few months later, I asked his relative about him, who said: that one died.
I praised God that I answered him like that, because he might have taken it as a plea before God and said: they told me no difference. and I would have been responsible for that.
Gotta have the Trinity.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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As you said in the later decades conflicts appeared, but you ignored the important reason: their enemies who used the policy of divide and rule.
Later decades? It happened almost immediately after the death of Mohammed, in a dispute over the succession of leadership, and it's been simmering ever since. There were assassinations and massacres in the first generation after Mohammed's passing, they've been intermittently blowing up for the entire history of Islam, and not just between Sunnis and Shias, but between sects within them.

 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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As you said in the later decades conflicts appeared, but you ignored the important reason: their enemies who used the policy of divide and rule.

You are starting to show yourself to not even understand the history of your own Religion. Which makes me wonder if you even are really a believer or just a troll.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Could be both, I suppose. No doubt he can find a way to blame Zionists for the schism, even though it was a matter strictly internal to Islam and there were no Zionists in the 7th century, it's a 19th century movement.
 
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Torch light

House Member
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Later decades? It happened almost immediately after the death of Mohammed, in a dispute over the succession of leadership, and it's been simmering ever since. There were assassinations and massacres in the first generation after Mohammed's passing, they've been intermittently blowing up for the entire history of Islam, and not just between Sunnis and Shias, but between sects within them.

True, people conflicted, but it is not the Islam or the Quran in strict words, that told them to do so. They conflicted in contradiction of the teachings of the Quran, which tells them as in the Quran 3: 103, which means:
(And hold fast [O believers] all together, with the 'communicating-cause‘ b of God, and do not scatter into [several] divisions c .)
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................

b Which is the Quran: it is the joining or connection between you and God, and you should work according to its instructions and statements.
c Do not divide into sects and parties as did those before you divide, then you will lose, become weak and your enemy will have control over you.
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/3.htm#a3_103

In fact, in the lifetime of Prophet Mohammed, many plots were done against him.
Example:
"[This aya was revealed about the group of the Aqaba, who intended to assassinate God's messenger in the Aqaba, when they returned from Tabuk. They decided to sever the ties of his riding camel, then to prick his camel so that he would fall from it. But God acquainted him about that. Therefore, God's messenger moved along in the Aqaba, while Ammar and Huzaifa were with him, one in front of his camel and the other behind it. And he commanded all people to take the way in the bottom of the valley. Those who intended to kill him were twelve men; then when the Prophet inquired them concerning what they said about him, they swore by God that they did not say any bad words against him. Therefore, His saying – be glorified – was revealed"

9: 74. (They swear by God that they said nothing [bad, concerning the Prophet], but [actually] they said the word of unbelief [in the prophet-hood of Mohammed], and they denied [his prophet-hood] after they had admitted it. And they intended to [kill the prophet] but they could not achieve that [because God acquainted him about their plot, so he took heed.])

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_74
 

Torch light

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Could be both, I suppose. No doubt he can find a way to blame Zionists for the schism, even though it was a matter strictly internal to Islam and there were no Zionists in the 7th century, it's a 19th century movement.
But you said you follow science and scientific ways; I did not say Zionists were in that time, but Jews worked to make seditions even in the lifetime of Prophet Mohammed.
 

Torch light

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What many blame about the Islam religion and about Muslims divisions ... the same happened for Jews and Christians before.

Divisions of Jews were evident even in the time of Moses himself, and people murmured and rebelled, and when he left them for forty days, they divided into two parties: those who worshiped the calf, and others the believers who remained steadfast with Aaron to worship God alone and reject the idolatry.
While after Moses their history is full of divisions and schisms.
The Book of Judges and other books of the Torah collection is full of such examples.
Their Rebellion against Their Prophet
Their Hearts Were Hardened
In the above link, see the wars and fighting between brothers and cousins with tens of thousands of killed victims among them.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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What many blame about the Islam religion and about Muslims divisions ... the same happened for Jews and Christians before.

Divisions of Jews were evident even in the time of Moses himself, and people murmured and rebelled, and when he left them for forty days, they divided into two parties: those who worshiped the calf, and others the believers who remained steadfast with Aaron to worship God alone and reject the idolatry.
While after Moses their history is full of divisions and schisms.
The Book of Judges and other books of the Torah collection is full of such examples.
Their Rebellion against Their Prophet
Their Hearts Were Hardened
In the above link, see the wars and fighting between brothers and cousins with tens of thousands of killed victims among them.
What does the Quran say about the expansion of the universe?
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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But you said you follow science and scientific ways; I did not say Zionists were in that time, but Jews worked to make seditions even in the lifetime of Prophet Mohammed.

Interesting (though not surprising) you focus on Jews working to "make seditions". What about other people who were of Islam? Remember, Islam COMES from Abraham, a Jew.

Islam is just the same as Christianity; Judaism rebranded and re-Prophetized.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Interesting (though not surprising) you focus on Jews working to "make seditions". What about other people who were of Islam? Remember, Islam COMES from Abraham, a Jew.

Islam is just the same as Christianity; Judaism rebranded and re-Prophetized.
Well, they got their prophet. And took some losses.

I'd say they're still in the red.
 

Torch light

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Divisions and wars of Christians:
Even in the lifetime of Jesus Christ, the disciples divided among themselves on some points and after his escape from Pilate's prison, they divided about that: some said he escaped, others said he was crucified and then resurrected, and some of them doubted.
Following the death of Jesus Christ, the wars among Christians cannot be denied.

God - be glorified - said in the Quran 5: 14, which means:
(Also those [Christians] who said: "We are the helpers of God's [religion]" – We ratified the covenant with them, but they have forgotten a portion of what they were admonished with; so We have provoked enmity and hatred among them [and so they divided into many sects] till Doomsday, and God will inform them [on the Day of Judgment] about [the statues of Mary and the crosses of the Christ] that they used to make.)

The complete explanation in the following link:
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/5.htm#a5_14

And in the Quran 2: 253, which means:
(Had God willed, then after these [messengers: Moses and Jesus, people] would not have fought among themselves, even after the obvious revelations had come to them [included in the heavenly books.]
But they fell into dissension [and they contradicted the first commandment]: some [steadfastly] believed and others disbelieved. Had God willed, they would not have fought each other, but God does whatever He wills.
)

See the complete explanation of this aya here:
quran-ayat.com/pret/2.htm#a2_253
 

Dexter Sinister

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But you said you follow science and scientific ways; I did not say Zionists were in that time,
I didn't claim you did. Apparently irony and sarcasm are lost on you too.
but Jews worked to make seditions even in the lifetime of Prophet Mohammed.
Of course they did, and well before Mohammed's time too. It happens in all religions, because faith and revelation are not reliable guides to knowledge. People working from the same base of faith and revelation will come to different conclusions about what's true and important, and the religion will splinter, always. You've done it yourself, rejecting both Sunni and Shia factions in favour of your own interpretation.
 

Torch light

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Abraham was not a Jew; he had been before Judaism.
In fact, Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob: Israel, and the father of Ishmael.
From Ishmael, the Arab of Mecca descended.
So Abraham was the father of the Arab and the Israelite.
But he was neither a Jew nor a Christian, because he was far before Moses and Jesus and Mohammed.
Mohammed and the believers who followed him are more worthy of pertaining to Abraham, and they follow his creed of pure monotheism. For both Abraham and Mohammed broke the idols.
Remember, Islam COMES from Abraham, a Jew.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
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Abraham was not a Jew; he had been before Judaism.
In fact, Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob: Israel, and the father of Ishmael.
From Ishmael, the Arab of Mecca descended.
So Abraham was the father of the Arab and the Israelite.
But he was neither a Jew nor a Christian, because he was far before Moses and Jesus and Mohammed.
Mohammed and the believers who followed him are more worthy of pertaining to Abraham, and they follow his creed of pure monotheism. For both Abraham and Mohammed broke the idols.

He's considered the "Father" of Montheisum and the source of where the Torah came from.

But sure, semantics says he wasn't actually a Jew, just a guy in the desert.

The point is, he's the SAME guy that Islam claims. So by that link, he's the main guy for Islam, for Judaism and Christianity.

Islam is just a "Retelling" of Judaism, a re-prophetizing. That DOESN'T make it somehow super special. It's just telling the same story over and over, using different words by people in power and from people in power to KEEP that power.
 
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Jinentonix

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Mohammed and the believers who followed him are more worthy of pertaining to Abraham, and they follow his creed of pure monotheism. For both Abraham and Mohammed broke the idols.
Wow, so they were both power-tripping vandals. Did you know that God actually gave Abraham 15 commandments. But ya know, three heavy stone tablets, two hands...
 

Torch light

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Wow, so they were both power-tripping vandals. Did you know that God actually gave Abraham 15 commandments. But ya know, three heavy stone tablets, two hands...
Quran 53: 36, which means:
(36. Or has he not been informed [in the Quran] of that which is in the Scripture of Moses [his prophet]?
37. And [of] Abraham who fulfilled [his vow.]

[Haven’t We told him also about what in the Scripture of Abraham, in which is written:]
38. That no ‘soul laden with sins’ may bear the load of [the sin of] another [soul.]
39. And that: man can have nothing [in the Hereafter] but only [the good and righteous deeds] that he strives for [in the life of the World.]
40. And that his striving shall surely be seen.
41. Then [God] will reward him for [his striving] with a most full reward.
42. And to [the neighborhood of] your Lord [in the spiritual heavens] is the terminal end [of his journey.]
43. And that it is He Who makes [people happy so they] laugh [from delight], and makes [them miserable so they] weep [from sadness.]
44. And that it is He Who causes death [of fathers] and gives life [to their seed.]
45. And that it is He Who creates the two sexes: the male and the female.
46. From a [scanty seminal] fluid when it is poured [into the womb.]
47. And that He has promised another formation.
48. And that it is He Who gives wealth and gives property.
49. And that He is the Lord of [the star] Sirius.
50. And that He destroyed the past [tribe of] Aad [when they denied their messenger.]
51. And [the tribe of] Thamood: He did not spare [when they denied their messenger.]
52. And [We destroyed] the people of Noah before; surely they were more unjust and more rebellious [than ‘Aad and Thamood.]
53. And the ‘demolished and overturned’ [cities of Lot's people] were even more at going down [into Hell.]

54. And there covered them [the wreckage] that did cover the [city because of the earthquake.])

A detailed explanation of these great ayat is here:
quran-ayat.com/pret/53.htm#a53_36