Obamacare upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court

[Bar Sinister]

Well... now the people will be forced to pay for Health Care. Not the so called "poor" mind you. They have always had Free Health Care. They won't be paying for anything as long as they stay on welfare and this is great incentive to do so.

Yes it certainly is terrible having the government force unwanted programs on the citizens of the US, such as financing the invasion foreign nations, subsiding massive transnational corporations, and paying for useless things like roads, libraries, schools, and hospitals.

Again... Americans are fat and glutinous. Our lifestyles are horrible... particularly among our poor. They are the fatest of all socioeconomic classes. Obamacare will not save them.

HARVARD STUDY USES QUESTIONABLE METHODOLOGY, SAY CRITICS



I wonder why wealthy Canadians and Canadian politicians run to the U.S when they need treatment.

Please Grumpy.

Do you now, and I wonder why poor and middle class Americans sneak across the border to use the Canadian health care system and why Mexican doctors are doing such a thriving trade with Americans health care tourists.

 

[Liberalman]

The rest of Americans can suffer the same fate as the rich, "Better Health"

 

[Locutus]

Twitchy link is wonky...click it from the link at the top of this page:

Left attacks Sarah Palin's '****' daughters and 'retard' son after she tweets about SCOTUS ruling; Update: Death wish

https://twitter.com/imsure/statuses/218386507738775552

 

[EagleSmack]

Yes it certainly is terrible having the government force unwanted programs on the citizens of the US, such as financing the invasion foreign nations, subsiding massive transnational corporations, and paying for useless things like roads, libraries, schools, and hospitals.

Hey how do you make the rolling eyes emoticon?

Do you now, and I wonder why poor and middle class Americans sneak across the border to use the Canadian health care system and why Mexican doctors are doing such a thriving trade with Americans health care tourists.

LOL. That was funny.

Tough to hear that wasn't it? I bet that boils you when that happens.

The rest of Americans can suffer the same fate as the rich, "Better Health"

Obamacare is going to stop our poor from gorging on KFC?

Ooooo this is going to be fun to see.

Which is why they reported adjusted hazard ratios, accounting for socioeconomic and lifestyle factors....those without insurance tend to be less educated, lower earners, and with poorer relative diets. Account for confounding variables.

The Harvard report didn't... if that is what you mean. Before the report there was a conclusion established. They just worked it out to say more people die who aren't covered than those that do.

All these reports are pretty much the same.

For example...
How many people died in NYC? How many didn't have Health Insurance? Then that is their number to say...

"10,000 people died in NYC because they didn't have health insurance."

It's assinine.

 

[Tonington]

The Harvard report didn't... if that is what you mean.

It is, and yes they did. From their results:

In the model adjusted only for age and gender, lack of health insurance was significantly associated with mortality (hazard ratio

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=1.80; 95% CI=1.44, 2.26). In subsequent models adjusted for gender, age, race/ethnicity, poverty income ratio, education, unemployment, smoking, regular alcohol use, self-rated health, physician-rated health, and BMI, lack of health insurance significantly increased the risk of mortality (HR=1.40; 95%CI=1.06,1.84; Table 2).
​

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Before the report there was a conclusion established.

There was? Can you post a link to where they established the conclusion before they analyzed the data?

They just worked it out to say more people die who aren't covered than those that do.

No, they didn't.

Replicating the methods of the IOM panel with updated census data and this hazard ratio, we calculated 27,424 deaths among Americans aged 25 to 64 years in 2000 associated with lack of health insurance. Applying this hazard ratio to census data from 2005 and including all persons aged 18 to 64 years yields an estimated 35,327 deaths annually among the nonelderly associated with lack of health insurance. When we repeated this approach without age stratification, (thought by investigators at the Urban Institute to be an overly conservative approach) we calculated approximately 44,789 deaths among Americans aged 18 to 64 years in 2005 associated with lack of health insurance.
​

All these reports are pretty much the same.

For example...
How many people died in NYC? How many didn't have Health Insurance? Then that is their number to say...

"10,000 people died in NYC because they didn't have health insurance."

No, that is not at all what they did. The survey data they used only had 33,994 individuals. How could they possibly get a number like 44,789 if they simply counted...logic fail.

Read the report for yourself, you're labouring under some false notions:
http://pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults.pdf

It's assinine.

Something here is assinine...

 

[captain morgan]

Every other nation in the modern world has a form of medicare and far better
that in America.

Really?

Got a link maybe?

It is now time for governments to take on
the big drug companies, and force them to bring their prices into line. They do
have a right to profit but they should not have the right to gouge.

Sounds good as long as you are happy with the drug companies spending a lot less of R&D or developing better products.

Once this comes to pass and you are relegated to having the local Doc use leeches to cure all that ails ya, will you b*tch about the unconscionable profits generated from the high cost of leeches?

Which is why they reported adjusted hazard ratios, accounting for socioeconomic and lifestyle factors....those without insurance tend to be less educated, lower earners, and with poorer relative diets. Account for confounding variables.

It still begs the question: Is it the individual or is it society that is responsible for the decisions made by the individual.

 

[taxslave]

Why should it only be the poor that are covered? Middle class people don't get sick?

Nope. They just get to pay the bills. Can't afford to get sick.

 

[EagleSmack]

Nope. They just get to pay the bills. Can't afford to get sick.

I have insurance. I pay for it. Now I'll most likely pay more. Ah, well.

 

[captain morgan]

Nope. They just get to pay the bills. Can't afford to get sick.

Ain't equality grand?

 

[Tonington]

It still begs the question: Is it the individual or is it society that is responsible for the decisions made by the individual.

No it doesn't. Unless all illness and injury can be directly attributed to the decisions someone makes. That's simply not the case.

And as for society, society is better served by a healthy population.

I have insurance. I pay for it. Now I'll most likely pay more. Ah, well.

How do you figure that?
Health-Care Reform Brings Insurance Rebates | Fox Business

 

[taxslave]

I have insurance. I pay for it. Now I'll most likely pay more. Ah, well.

Not much different than here. In BC we pay over $100/mo for our "free" healthcare. Unless you have a really low income then it is free.

 

[EagleSmack]

No it doesn't. Unless all illness and injury can be directly attributed to the decisions someone makes. That's simply not the case.

And as for society, society is better served by a healthy population.

Is Obamacare going to change the behavior of the most unhealthy of our population? I doubt it.

How do you figure that?
Health-Care Reform Brings Insurance Rebates | Fox Business

From the article...

"If you have health insurance, you may be getting some money back this summer."

Can I let you know if I got a rebate on September 22?

Something tells me, just a hunch, that the billions needed to fund Obamacare is going to come from somewhere. The go-to class are usually the middle class.

 

[petros]

"Free healthcare"....I wouldn't mind that.

 

[Tonington]

Something tells me, just a hunch, that the billions needed to fund Obamacare is going to come from somewhere. The go-to class are usually the middle class.

So, you believe that your insurance premiums will go up so that Washington can pay for the healthcare reform?

Ok....

 

[petros]

As much as 50% of a Provincial budget goes for healthcare. That is insane. Under current financial
conditions there is no way in Hell this will be affordable for State and Fed govs.

 

[captain morgan]

No it doesn't. Unless all illness and injury can be directly attributed to the decisions someone makes. That's simply not the case.

And as for society, society is better served by a healthy population.

Understood and agreed. My point, much of the health related issues we have today relates to poor decisions that we all make, many of which are easily preventable

The comment I made harkens back to one of your posts in which you suggested that a persons good health should never be taken for granted (or words to that effect)

 

[JLM]

And as for society, society is better served by a healthy population.

Truer words were never spoken, one of the main problems today is we are too intent on remedying sickness and not intent enough on promoting health. The "drugstore mentality" is running rampant.

 

[captain morgan]

As much as 50% of a Provincial budget goes for healthcare. That is insane. Under current financial
conditions there is no way in Hell this will be affordable for State and Fed govs.

I recall hearing (tears ago) that the AB gvt used to provide an 'invoice-style' breakdown of the services that were received at the hospital. The letter wasn't issued as a bill, but more as a communications device to illustrate the costs (to the patient) that were consumed on each visit.

Maybe it's time that practice was brought back to help the general population understand the actual costs of the system

 

[JLM]

As much as 50% of a Provincial budget goes for healthcare. That is insane. Under current financial
conditions there is no way in Hell this will be affordable for State and Fed govs.

You have that right, Petros, health is the natural state, sickness is not. :smile:

I have insurance. I pay for it. Now I'll most likely pay more. Ah, well.

Maybe there is a key there to our health problems. Insurance can be obtaining in two ways, paying for it with cash or paying for it with time and effort. (Start running up those stairs)

 

[petros]

I recall hearing (tears ago) that the AB gvt used to provide an 'invoice-style' breakdown of the services that were received at the hospital. The letter wasn't issued as a bill, but more as a communications device to illustrate the costs (to the patient) that were consumed on each visit.

Maybe it's time that practice was brought back to help the general population understand the actual costs of the system

Some might decide it's a competition to have more spent on them so they feel they are getting their share.

Truer words were never spoken, one of the main problems today is we are too intent on remedying sickness and not intent enough on promoting health. The "drugstore mentality" is running rampant.

Who is a more cautious driver? Somebody with insurane or somebody without insurance?