Obama - What is your opinion so far on his Presidency

[TenPenny]

That's true ... the middle earners always pay the most. As soon as someone moves into the $60k bracket, taxes bring them back to when they were in the $40k bracket and so on.

Can you give an example of how that happens?

 

[Goober]

I saw that report about $15,000 application fees to build a pool, corruption and ... well, there's also the laziness factor with early retirement and extensive vacation time for everyone. I don't know what's going on in the US with finances except that the pyramid banking/real estate scheme put the country into a downward financial spiral that they're still trying to climb out of.

That did not create the big problem - 2 wars - trillions.

 

[JLM]

On the news this evening, the US is being compared to Greece in terms of financial problems ... in fact, it's suggested that the US will surpass Greece as the biggest financial mess. I think this is a problem that was mostly inherited by Obama, but I don't think anyone will remember that when the election roles around.

The sub prime mortgages that the crooked bankers and mortgage brokers
tried to fly was the beginning of the end. How it ever got started I don't know, my 10 year old grand daughter knows you can't spend money you don't have. I guess the people who did know better but sanctioned it must have been raking in huge payoffs. 8O

It's absolutely impossible for Obama or any other president to do anything about it. What you have is 250 million people living too high on the hog. As much as I'm against taxes they may be a fact of life as the only solution. Perhaps "work co ops" have to be formed, to get everyone working, so there are 20 million more employed (and paying taxes) and 20 million less drawing welfare.

Can you give an example of how that happens?

She can't,it's bullsh*t. The more you earn the more you pay and it increases exponentially- like a person earning $50 grand pays about 4 times what a person earning $25 grand pays.

 

[Machjo]

The sub prime mortgages that the crooked bankers and mortgage brokers
tried to fly was the beginning of the end. How it ever got started I don't know, my 10 year old grand daughter knows you can't spend money you don't have. I guess the people who did know better but sanctioned it must have been raking in huge payoffs. 8O



It's absolutely impossible for Obama or any other president to do anything about it. What you have is 250 million people living too high on the hog. As much as I'm against taxes they may be a fact of life as the only solution. Perhaps "work co ops" have to be formed, to get everyone working, so there are 20 million more employed (and paying taxes) and 20 million less drawing welfare.



She can't,it's bullsh*t. The more you earn the more you pay and it increases exponentially- like a person earning $50 grand pays about 4 times what a person earning $25 grand pays.

To be fair to Obama, you do have a point there. So, how do you create full employment while spending as little as possible?

I'd say fight each type of unemployment on its own merits:

Classical unemployment: Eliminate the minimum wage.

Geographical unemployment: Establish common educational standards for trades and professions and open up your borders to trade in labour.

Skills-deficient unemployment: Provide education in a trade or profession for the unemployed.

Unfortunately there is no escaping government spending for that last type of unemployement, but at least the first two can be solved relatively cheaply, which is still better than nothing.

 

[TenPenny]

She can't,it's bullsh*t. The more you earn the more you pay and it increases exponentially- like a person earning $50 grand pays about 4 times what a person earning $25 grand pays.

Exactly, the way the tax brackets work, it is impossible. Anyone who has ever done their own taxes would know that.

On your fist $X of income, you pay Y% of tax.

On the NEXT increment of income, you pay a different rate.

The higher rates DO NOT apply to the earlier increments, so it is impossible for what was claimed to actually happen.

 

[Machjo]

And any funding increase in skills training from the unemployed could come from cuts to otehr government funding.

 

[Ariadne]

Can you give an example of how that happens?

Here's the tax rates: federal, and below is the provincial. Alberta is 10% regardless of income, other provinces fluxuate.

What are the income tax rates in Canada?

What I was referring to was that when we roll into the next tax bracket, the taxes are higher so, in effect, the take home seems to be the same ... but that's a federal tax bracket. I don't know much about taxes and actively avoid anything to do with arithmetic.

 

[Tonington]

She can't,it's bullsh*t. The more you earn the more you pay and it increases exponentially- like a person earning $50 grand pays about 4 times what a person earning $25 grand pays.

That's not true. In Ontario, for example, the marginal tax scale looks like this:

• 3%: $0 - $3,500
• 10.5%: $3,501 - $8,943
• 15.55%: $8,948-$10,382
• 30.55%: $10,383 - $37,106
• 34.15%: $37,107-$40,970
• 41.65%: $40,971-$43,200
• 38.65%: $43,201-$47,200
• 31.15%: $47,201-$74,214
• 33.16%: $74,215-$81,941
• 37.16%: $81,942-$127,021
• 40.16%: $127,022-inf

 

[Ariadne]

The sub prime mortgages that the crooked bankers and mortgage brokers
tried to fly was the beginning of the end. How it ever got started I don't know, my 10 year old grand daughter knows you can't spend money you don't have. I guess the people who did know better but sanctioned it must have been raking in huge payoffs. 8O



It's absolutely impossible for Obama or any other president to do anything about it. What you have is 250 million people living too high on the hog. As much as I'm against taxes they may be a fact of life as the only solution. Perhaps "work co ops" have to be formed, to get everyone working, so there are 20 million more employed (and paying taxes) and 20 million less drawing welfare.



She can't,it's bullsh*t. The more you earn the more you pay and it increases exponentially- like a person earning $50 grand pays about 4 times what a person earning $25 grand pays.

I followed it closely at the time because I was interested in how it would impact the Canadian housing market ... but it didn't. What happened was people that couldn't afford a mortgage went to brokers that offered low interest rates for a limited term. They borrowed the money and invested in real estate. The mortgages were then sold from one broker to another, and after the limited term expired, the interest rates were put back where they should be ... much higher. When people tried to renew, they could no longer afford the mortgage payments so the properties reverted to the brokers. The property values plummetted because people could no longer afford to buy real estate, and the mortgages were valued at more than the value of the property. The brokers ended up with a bunch of worthless properties that they tried to unload ... it was something along those lines ... the pyramid banking scheme that happened in the US could not happen in Canada ... thankfully.

 

[TenPenny]

What I was referring to was that when we roll into the next tax bracket, the taxes are higher so, in effect, the take home seems to be the same ... but that's a federal tax bracket. I don't know much about taxes and actively avoid anything to do with arithmetic.

When you roll into a higher bracket, the higher rate only applies to the income above the amount for the lower bracket.

The old myth about taking home less pay because of a raise hasn't been true for 30 years, if it ever was.

 

[Ariadne]

She can't,it's bullsh*t. The more you earn the more you pay and it increases exponentially- like a person earning $50 grand pays about 4 times what a person earning $25 grand pays.

That's right ... the more you earn, the more you pay ... so when we move into the next tax bracket, our taxes are higher ... thus leaving us with pretty much the same take home until we surpass the $128k mark ... and then the tax bracket no longer increases. I noticed that the tax brackets are different than a few years ago.

When you roll into a higher bracket, the higher rate only applies to the income above the amount for the lower bracket.

The old myth about taking home less pay because of a raise hasn't been true for 30 years, if it ever was.

I know that ... I was only saying that, in my experience, each time I rolled into the next tax bracket the taxes were higher and my take home seemed to remain the same. That was very definitely the case when I was just into the next tax bracket.

 

[Walter]

The only fair tax is a consumption tax. All other forms of taxation are regressive.

 

[JLM]

To be fair to Obama, you do have a point there. So, how do you create full employment while spending as little as possible?

QUOTE]

That part is very simple, you cut everyone's wage in half, with a lower standard of living they don't need all that money. You create full employment building Hondas and Chevrolets and cut down on the Lamborginis and Cadillacs.

The only fair tax is a consumption tax. All other forms of taxation are regressive.

You've got a good point there. The only thing is if you are imposing "sin" taxes then all the sins should be taxed. Pretty soon it's going to water skis and hiking boots (after all a guy could fall off the trail and kill himself)

That's not true. In Ontario, for example, the marginal tax scale looks like this:

• 3%: $0 - $3,500
• 10.5%: $3,501 - $8,943
• 15.55%: $8,948-$10,382
• 30.55%: $10,383 - $37,106
• 34.15%: $37,107-$40,970
• 41.65%: $40,971-$43,200
• 38.65%: $43,201-$47,200
• 31.15%: $47,201-$74,214
• 33.16%: $74,215-$81,941
• 37.16%: $81,942-$127,021
• 40.16%: $127,022-inf

That's Ontario!!!!!!!!!!! If you want to split hairs I was wrong, if you want to be practical I was close- on $25 grand you would pay $5020 on $50 grand you would pay $13383. But you are forgetting that on the additional $25 grand you are also paying other taxes...........if you spend the money. I see Ontario's income tax is a hell of a lot more onerous than B.C. To start with we only have four tax categories.

When you roll into a higher bracket, the higher rate only applies to the income above the amount for the lower bracket.

The old myth about taking home less pay because of a raise hasn't been true for 30 years, if it ever was.

Good point or I should say "essential point" If you earn $50,100 and the higher rate is for above $50,000 you are only paying it on the $100. Moral of the story is the more you make the more you take home.

I was working 50 years ago and it wasn't happening then.

 

[petros]

The Saskatchewan unemployment rate for June

2011 was 4.3 percent. This is a decrease of 0.6

percentage points from the May 2011 rate of 4.9

percent and also 0.6 percentage points lower than

the June 2010 level of 4.9 percent.

 

[Tonington]

The only fair tax is a consumption tax. All other forms of taxation are regressive.

What definition of regressive is that now?

That's Ontario!!!!!!!!!!! If you want to split hairs I was wrong, if you want to be practical I was close- on $25 grand you would pay $5020 on $50 grand you would pay $13383.

Yes, it's an example. Other provinces aren't that different if you tally it up. It's not exponential...if the tax rate did increase exponentially, then you very easilly could take home less pay when a raise increased your tax rate.

Also, you may want to check your math. A person earning 50,000 pays slightly more than double in taxes than a person who earns 25,000.

I see Ontario's income tax is a hell of a lot more onerous than B.C. To start with we only have four tax categories.

You can't have fewer than five, you have to include federal brackets too. The list I gave includes lots of other deductions, like payroll, CPP, EI contributions, etc. Ontario only has four brackets as well:

• 0%: $0-$8,943
• 5.05%: $8,944-$37,106
• 9.15%: $37,107-$74,214
• 11.16%: $74,215-inf

It's all in the link I provided...

 

[Walter]

What definition of regressive is that now?

Moving toward a less perfect state.

 

[YukonJack]

Since I've been excoriated, bashed, maligned and called a racist bigot for criticizing Obama, I will only quote others with whom I agree. Here is an interesting one:

Articles: The Left Starts to Dump Obama

Who would have thunk?

 

[JLM]

Since I've been excoriated, bashed, maligned and called a racist bigot for criticizing Obama, I will only quote others with whom I agree. Here is an interesting one:

Articles: The Left Starts to Dump Obama

Who would have thunk?

One eensy little problem, Y.J. "The American Thinker" is one of the most disreputable, sleaziest rags in the U.S. At least quote something credible!:smile:

 

[YukonJack]

One eensy little problem, Y.J. "The American Thinker" is one of the most disreputable, sleaziest rags in the U.S. At least quote something credible!:smile:

Not any sleazier or less disreputable rag than The Huffington Post, Mother Jones, The Nation and scores more of the liberal bent. I venture to guess that you are just as unfamiliar with these publications as you are with The American Thinker.

Of course in the narrow and short-sighted world of those who refuse to see, only conservatives deserve to be called sleazy and disreputable.

BTW, did you read the article? Tim time elapsed between my posting it and your indecently hasty response clearly indicates that you never bothered.

 

[EagleSmack]

I think this is a problem that was mostly inherited by Obama, but I don't think anyone will remember that when the election roles around.

Not even close. Obama inherited a big mess and made it even worse. He tripled the debt while he was in office and his stimulus packages failed.

This is all Obama.

It may have been inherited by Obama for the most part, but he hasn't done much to change the siuation either. At the very least, he could have aimed to leave the country in no worse shape than he'd inherited it. Had that been the case, I may have been able to forgive him not having improved the situation seeing that he had inherited the recession too to be fair. But at worst he coudl have at least planned on leaving the country the way he'd found it.

Right... instead he's made a bad situation into a worse situation.