Oh, the easy way out - which is exactly what he's been asking for as well.
Conservative justice right here on display.
No wonder our country's criminal justice system is going down the ****ter.
Norway's mass killer Breivik declared sane
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
Oh, the easy way out - which is exactly what he's been asking for as well.
Conservative justice right here on display.
No wonder our country's criminal justice system is going down the ****ter.
Breivik is sane alright. I read his manifest and its coherent. Breivik has character flaws.... an extreme viewpoint and no empathy for others.
Not even the prosecution thinks he's sane, as I already posted...
Norwegian Prosecutors Want Breivik Declared Insane - International Business Times
Norwegian Prosecutors Want Breivik Declared Insane - International Business Times
That means absolutely nothing in the contexted of ones sanity.
Good.... Now can he be extradited to some place were they know how to tie an eight-looped knot with old rope?
I did read the article. If Breivik was insane for years, then you'd think someone would have noticed before his rampage. Schizophrenia is impossible to hide for any length of time. Psychosis makes people incoherent and delusional. Yet Breivik was able to lead a normal life, more or less.
He's just a cold blooded and ruthless variant of the same people he quoted and referenced in his manifesto. If he only killed a handful of Muslims, he'd have barely made the news and no one would questioned his sanity. But because he decided that if he was going to cross the line and become a murderer, he'd be better at it than anyone else. He meticulously planned his actions for years. He picked targets that he knew would result in the greatest possible notoriety. That would make Breivik a perfectionist as well as cold blooded and ruthless.
Even though you and Brievik share similar viewpoints regarding "the Muslim threat" I have no doubt that you and Brievik are completely different. Like most normal people, you feel compassion and empathy for others. Breivik completely lacks this fundamental human quality. Lack of compassion and empathy for others is a character flaw, not a mental illness.
That is a patently false generalization.
That is a patently false generalization.
Difficulties in Detecting Schizophrenia Can Have Serious Consequences in Military Setting
NAMI | Diagnosing Schizophrenia
Some more suggested reading for your misconceptions...
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Read your own article:
“You need to remember that the incidence of psychotic disorders is less than 100 a year in the entire military, so it’s not all that common,” Hammer says. “When it does occur, it’s obvious enough that people know what to do and they are able to get the individual appropriately referred.”
While diagnosing schizophrenia might be difficult, identifying that someone suffering schizophrenia is behaving abnormally is not.
I've only met two people diagnosed with schizophrenia and it was obvious that both suffered a mental problem even when they were on their medication. When they stopped taking their medication, one guy rambled incoherently and |the other guy became catatonic and stopped moving. He'd piss and crap himself while staring into space. When they were on their medication, I'd describe their behavior as barely functional.
Breivik doesn't appear to be like either of these people. But I'm not an expert in mental diseases. The experts in Brievik's case come to different conclusions.
My personal opinion is that Breivik is a psyhcopath... a personality disorder that has been variously described as characterized by shallow emotions (in particular reduced fear), stress tolerance, lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, nonplanfulness, impulsivity, and antisocial behaviors such as parasitic lifestyle and criminality.
Those characteristics describe Breivik much better than schizophrenia... as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood.
or pschosis... an abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality". People suffering from psychosis are described as psychotic. Psychosis is given to the more severe forms of psychiatric disorder, during which hallucinations and delusions and impaired insight may occur.[2]
Breivik never suffered from hallucinations. He might be somewhat delusional, but no more so than people who fall within the range of normal behavior.
“You need to remember that the incidence of psychotic disorders is less than 100 a year in the entire military, so it’s not all that common,” Hammer says. “When it does occur, it’s obvious enough that people know what to do and they are able to get the individual appropriately referred.”
While diagnosing schizophrenia might be difficult, identifying that someone suffering schizophrenia is behaving abnormally is not.
I've only met two people diagnosed with schizophrenia and it was obvious that both suffered a mental problem even when they were on their medication. When they stopped taking their medication, one guy rambled incoherently and |the other guy became catatonic and stopped moving. He'd piss and crap himself while staring into space. When they were on their medication, I'd describe their behavior as barely functional.
Breivik doesn't appear to be like either of these people. But I'm not an expert in mental diseases. The experts in Brievik's case come to different conclusions.
My personal opinion is that Breivik is a psyhcopath... a personality disorder that has been variously described as characterized by shallow emotions (in particular reduced fear), stress tolerance, lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, nonplanfulness, impulsivity, and antisocial behaviors such as parasitic lifestyle and criminality.
Those characteristics describe Breivik much better than schizophrenia... as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood.
or pschosis... an abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality". People suffering from psychosis are described as psychotic. Psychosis is given to the more severe forms of psychiatric disorder, during which hallucinations and delusions and impaired insight may occur.[2]
Breivik never suffered from hallucinations. He might be somewhat delusional, but no more so than people who fall within the range of normal behavior.
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Defence argues for Breivik's sanity
The trial of Anders Behring Breivik entered its last day on Friday, with the defence trying to prove his killing of 77 people in twin attacks last July was not an act of insanity.
Breivik's main lawyer Geir Lippestad launched into his closing arguments at the Oslo district court 11 months to the day after Breivik's July 22 attacks, countering a call from prosecutors for the 33-year-old right-wing extremist to be locked up in a psychiatric ward instead of prison.
While prosecutors argued that Breivik's sanity had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt and that his attacks may have been sparked by delusions, Lippestad insisted his client was a political extremist.
His actions were "based on extremism," not psychotic delusions or an uncontrollable urge to violence, Lippestad insisted. Even though there is no chance Breivik will be set free, the defence lawyer must also formally make the request since Breivik has pleaded not guilty, despite having confessed to carrying out the murderous twin attacks on July 22.
That day, Breivik first set off a car bomb outside government buildings in Oslo, killing eight people, before travelling to Utoeya island, northwest of the capital. There, he spent more than an hour methodically shooting and killing another 69 people, mostly teenagers.
The victims, the youngest of whom had just celebrated her 14th birthday, had been attending a summer camp hosted by the governing Labour Party's youth organisation.
Breivik has evoked the "principle of necessity", claiming his attacks were "cruel but necessary" to protect Norway against a "Muslim invasion".
With no illusion of getting his client off, Lippestad said he would mainly focus on the tricky question of Breivik's sanity, which has been the main focus of his 10-week trial, which began on April 16.
Psychiatric evaluations of Breivik's mental health have sharply contradicted each other, with two court-appointed expert teams reaching diametrically opposed conclusions.
Breivik himself is intent on proving his sanity even though it will mean a lengthy prison term. He wants to establish that his far-right, Islamophobic ideology is not just the rantings of a lunatic.
Court-ordered psychiatric confinement would be "a fate worse than death," he has said. Last month vowed to the court that he would not appeal a certain guilty verdict if he was found to sane and sentenced to prison.
On Thursday however, the prosecution called on the five judges to send him to a closed psychiatric ward, arguing his sanity had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
"Our request is that he be obliged to undergo psychiatric treatment" in a closed unit, prosecutor Svein Holden said, wrapping up the prosecution's three-hour closing arguments.
"In our opinion, it would be worse to sentence someone who is psychotic to prison than to send someone who is not psychotic to psychiatric care," he said.
Lippestad countered Friday that "it is just as bad to treat a healthy individual (in a psychiatric ward) as to not treat someone who is ill."
If found criminally sane, Breivik should be sentenced to Norway's harshest penalty: 21 years in prison, with the possibility of extending the sentence for as long as he is considered a danger to society, prosecutors said.
The judges will rule on the question of whether Breivik is criminally sane or not when they hand down their verdict, which is expected on either July 20 or August 24.
Defence argues for Breivik's sanity
The trial of Anders Behring Breivik entered its last day on Friday, with the defence trying to prove his killing of 77 people in twin attacks last July was not an act of insanity.
Breivik's main lawyer Geir Lippestad launched into his closing arguments at the Oslo district court 11 months to the day after Breivik's July 22 attacks, countering a call from prosecutors for the 33-year-old right-wing extremist to be locked up in a psychiatric ward instead of prison.
While prosecutors argued that Breivik's sanity had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt and that his attacks may have been sparked by delusions, Lippestad insisted his client was a political extremist.
His actions were "based on extremism," not psychotic delusions or an uncontrollable urge to violence, Lippestad insisted. Even though there is no chance Breivik will be set free, the defence lawyer must also formally make the request since Breivik has pleaded not guilty, despite having confessed to carrying out the murderous twin attacks on July 22.
That day, Breivik first set off a car bomb outside government buildings in Oslo, killing eight people, before travelling to Utoeya island, northwest of the capital. There, he spent more than an hour methodically shooting and killing another 69 people, mostly teenagers.
The victims, the youngest of whom had just celebrated her 14th birthday, had been attending a summer camp hosted by the governing Labour Party's youth organisation.
Breivik has evoked the "principle of necessity", claiming his attacks were "cruel but necessary" to protect Norway against a "Muslim invasion".
With no illusion of getting his client off, Lippestad said he would mainly focus on the tricky question of Breivik's sanity, which has been the main focus of his 10-week trial, which began on April 16.
Psychiatric evaluations of Breivik's mental health have sharply contradicted each other, with two court-appointed expert teams reaching diametrically opposed conclusions.
Breivik himself is intent on proving his sanity even though it will mean a lengthy prison term. He wants to establish that his far-right, Islamophobic ideology is not just the rantings of a lunatic.
Court-ordered psychiatric confinement would be "a fate worse than death," he has said. Last month vowed to the court that he would not appeal a certain guilty verdict if he was found to sane and sentenced to prison.
On Thursday however, the prosecution called on the five judges to send him to a closed psychiatric ward, arguing his sanity had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
"Our request is that he be obliged to undergo psychiatric treatment" in a closed unit, prosecutor Svein Holden said, wrapping up the prosecution's three-hour closing arguments.
"In our opinion, it would be worse to sentence someone who is psychotic to prison than to send someone who is not psychotic to psychiatric care," he said.
Lippestad countered Friday that "it is just as bad to treat a healthy individual (in a psychiatric ward) as to not treat someone who is ill."
If found criminally sane, Breivik should be sentenced to Norway's harshest penalty: 21 years in prison, with the possibility of extending the sentence for as long as he is considered a danger to society, prosecutors said.
The judges will rule on the question of whether Breivik is criminally sane or not when they hand down their verdict, which is expected on either July 20 or August 24.
Defence argues for Breivik's sanity
I already did. And I didn't post one article.
Your focus on only one aspect that supports you false generalizations, is absurd.
LOL, you have to love wild contradictions.
You know 2 schitzo's? Wow.
It shows.
Which means nothing since you aren't an expert in mental illness.
So than you agree with Breivik's opinion of Muslims?
Geeze, a Lawyer doing what his client demands?
How outrageous! :roll:
I think you missed my point CB. Your articles only say that schizophrenia is hard to diagnose. But it also says its easy to tell something isn't right.
If I try to start my car and I notice that when I turn the key, the car makes a unusual rattling noise, flames and smoke come out from under the hood and I smell burning plastic. Do I have to be a mechanic or know precisely the cause in order to know the car's behavior is not normal? Would my car be fine to drive if the mechanic had difficulty diagnosing what was wrong with it?
If Breivik had schizophrenia or was psychotic, everyone around him would have noticed something was wrong. But they wouldn't know he was schizophrenic or pyschotic. they'd just know something wasn't right.
But Breivik behaved in a rational and sane manner right up until he went on his rampage. His behavior in court indicates that he is fully aware of what he did. He believes his actions were completely justified. IN order to save Norway from the Muslim threat he had to do something outrageous to draw attention to the himself so he could make people aware of the threat. He could have started an Islamaphobic thread on a web forum like Colpy, but being an extreme psychopath, he was able to kill all those people and not feel a shred of compassion or empathy for them. The extreme nature of the threat required extreme measures according to Brievik.. as documented in his manifest.
A psychopath isn't insane. They have a character flaw. I don't have to be a shrink to know that Breivik appears rational and sane.
If I try to start my car and I notice that when I turn the key, the car makes a unusual rattling noise, flames and smoke come out from under the hood and I smell burning plastic. Do I have to be a mechanic or know precisely the cause in order to know the car's behavior is not normal? Would my car be fine to drive if the mechanic had difficulty diagnosing what was wrong with it?
If Breivik had schizophrenia or was psychotic, everyone around him would have noticed something was wrong. But they wouldn't know he was schizophrenic or pyschotic. they'd just know something wasn't right.
But Breivik behaved in a rational and sane manner right up until he went on his rampage. His behavior in court indicates that he is fully aware of what he did. He believes his actions were completely justified. IN order to save Norway from the Muslim threat he had to do something outrageous to draw attention to the himself so he could make people aware of the threat. He could have started an Islamaphobic thread on a web forum like Colpy, but being an extreme psychopath, he was able to kill all those people and not feel a shred of compassion or empathy for them. The extreme nature of the threat required extreme measures according to Brievik.. as documented in his manifest.
A psychopath isn't insane. They have a character flaw. I don't have to be a shrink to know that Breivik appears rational and sane.
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It also says that it can be hidden. Not all schizophrenics are a like. Not all schizophrenia manifests identically. Schizophrenia does not come in one size fits all.
Take the test.
Test for Psychopathy
For each of the 20 characteristics, give a score of 0 if it does not apply, 1 if it applies partially and 2 if it is a perfect match.
1 Glib and Superficial Charm The tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.
2 Grandiose Self-Worth A grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.
3 Need for Stimulation or
Proneness to Boredom An excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.
4 Pathological Lying Can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.
5 Conning and Manipulativeness The use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.
6 Lack of Remorse or Guilt A lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.
7 Shallow Affect Emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.
8 Callousness and
Lack of Empathy A lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.
9 Parasitic Lifestyle An intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.
10 Poor Behavioral Controls Expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.
11 Promiscuous Sexual Behavior A variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.
12 Early Behavior Problems A variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.
13 Lack of Realistic,
Long-Term Goals an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.
14 Impulsivity The occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.
15 Irresponsibility Repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.
16 Failure to Accept Responsibility
for Own Actions A failure to accept responsibility for one's actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.
17 Many Short-Term Marital Relationships A lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.
18 Juvenile Delinquency Behavior problems between the ages of 13-18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.
19 Revocation of Condition Release A revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.
20 Criminal Versatility A diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.
Based on what Breivik wrote about himself in his manifest and how people have described him, he had many (but not all) of the above traits:
1 Glib and Superficial Charm The tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.
2 Grandiose Self-Worth A grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.
3 Need for Stimulation or
Proneness to Boredom An excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.
5 Conning and Manipulativeness The use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.
6 Lack of Remorse or Guilt A lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.
7 Shallow Affect Emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.
8 Callousness and
Lack of Empathy A lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.
10 Poor Behavioral Controls Expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.
11 Promiscuous Sexual Behavior A variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.
1 Glib and Superficial Charm The tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.
2 Grandiose Self-Worth A grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.
3 Need for Stimulation or
Proneness to Boredom An excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.
5 Conning and Manipulativeness The use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.
6 Lack of Remorse or Guilt A lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.
7 Shallow Affect Emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.
8 Callousness and
Lack of Empathy A lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.
10 Poor Behavioral Controls Expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.
11 Promiscuous Sexual Behavior A variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.
Several... to some degree or another and coincidentally they are all men. I try to keep my distance from people like that.
Anyone who feels remorse or guilt, isn't a psychopath. Another clue that someone isn't a psychopath is when they genuinely care about the suffering of others.
Anyone who feels remorse or guilt, isn't a psychopath. Another clue that someone isn't a psychopath is when they genuinely care about the suffering of others.
Funny. I could say the same thing about your peddling for the state prosecution. :roll:
You could, but you'd just be posting more nonsense.
1, I've been of the opinion (and posted that opinion) that he was schizophrenic since the first assessment.
2, The comparison is ridiculous.