NDP recordings proof of power grab, Tory MP alleges

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
116,335
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Low Earth Orbit
- Company isn't dragged down by the 19'th century unions representing the domestic builders

Here is an eye opener for you....non-union autoworkers makes as much and sometimes more than the unionized employees. Why is that?

Why haven't these non-union people stepped up to the plate and proposed wage cuts to support their jobs? If they were sucjh wonderful caring Canadians they would be the first ones piling the hay on the bandwagon and tuning up their fiddles.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
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Larnaka
Two points:

1. Many Canadians wanted to punish the liberals for the sponsorship scandal.
2. Having the NDP in government scares the hell out of me.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
For God's sake, seeking a coalition is not against the law. They are doing it in plain daylight. To have a successful coalition you first have to have a majority of supporters. Harper's mistake was trying to govern like he had a majority when he didn't.

A reasonable accessment Juan. Harper has very bad advisors I think. It seems such an alien read of the Canadian public, not the first either. Who are they?
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
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Toronto
- Company isn't dragged down by the 19'th century unions representing the domestic builders

Here is an eye opener for you....non-union autoworkers makes as much and sometimes more than the unionized employees. Why is that?

Why haven't these non-union people stepped up to the plate and proposed wage cuts to support their jobs? If they were sucjh wonderful caring Canadians they would be the first ones piling the hay on the bandwagon and tuning up their fiddles.

Oh ya, the classic socialist BS about the unions driving up wages for everyone. 40 years ago perhaps but the last time I checked the average person working in manufacturing does not make $30.00/h like GM workers.

Honda hasn't been shutting down assembly lines hence the employees not having to accept any concessions to their employment.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Yeah, Prax, the Cons are the only bad ones in the cart. :roll:

They had their run, they played their game of politics by throwing everyone through and election and bring us back to the exact same spot as before, only gaining a few extra seats, claimed he was going to work more with the other parties and have this all figured out, and now he's gone and D*cked it all up for more political brownies and everything is right back to where it was a few months ago and all that money that went into the election..... which he called..... was for nothing.

He had his chance to lead and he has done a super duper piss poor job of it.

And I hate the Liberals almost as much, but not as much. They both screw the average Canadian over real smooth like, the only difference is that the Liberals sometimes get results!

That's why I am for either the NDP or some other party I may help create or be a part of that has similar ideals like mine.... until then, they'll do.

And if Layton becomes dept Prime Minister as they plan, then there will be some control on the Liberals and make sure they don't Carbon Tax our asses to the stone age..... and Layton isn't given enough power to cause any major concern or harm or anything to matter at this point, unless he Caesar's Dion. If anything, it'll give the rest of Canada a chance to see if the NDP actually do suck, or at least know what they are doing better then the other two dim wits everybody keeps putting us back into this stupid circle of idiocy.

And if they suck like the other two or three parties, then we change the government ourselves.

Win win situation in my books. And if it all goes to hell, then it'll go either way regardless, no matter if we stick with these idiot conservatives and Harper, or if we go with a collective of what the other 60 some odd % of the country voted for..... seems to make sense because either way we'll have to go through some hard times, but at least this way everything is democratic... and why they're going completely open in the media with what they are doing.

And that audio tape from what I heard had nothing sensible or worthwhile as any evidence towards anything. If they were planning on making a deal with the Bloc for this sort of thing before it happened, well that's just good sense of planning and knowing this sort of thing was going to happen to create this opportunity.

And let's not forget that our best pal Harper and his party goers did the exact same thing back when Martin was PM.

Yeah..... not to mention that recording is against the law and therefore illegal? I don't remember anybody else pulling such a pathetic attempt to fear monger the whole situation..... and a very poor audio of nothing that is really a big deal.....

It's called panic mode for the Conservatives. Yeah, they're smart fellas and know how to plan things out, but they like everyone else, are human, therefore get stupid once in a while and make silly decisions with bad consequences.

Yeah I know, sucks, but true.

I don't think Harper has done much but I'm not naive enough to think that this coalition has some magic plan to lift us from recession. This is a global issue effecting all the large economies, the coalition will be rather limited in in correcting that.

They already had it in the news today as I ate, and they laid out their plans already, which follow along the same lines as the rest of the world who have a clue. Yes our economy is supposed to be "Better" then everybody elses, but that doesn't mean you don't do anything while you still see thousands of people losing jobs, more people heading to the food banks, less people buying?

If our economy is ok, then it won't be for very long..... something needs to be done.... frig, a long time ago, and the Harper Gang just delayed and delayed, and they are now planning to delay more by stopping the government until the new year to buy him some more time.

Which once again, shows he is not capable of dealing with issues and controlling the government, AKA: Not a leader. And 67 or 64 or whatever % of the rest of Canada doesn't think so either.

This is why people don't vote..... if this sort of government was the way things went, then you have more people actually being represented and things get done because they have a larger spectrum of what Canadians want, rather then one party telling everybody else how it's going to be.

And I will admit I am a bit concerned of our government suddenly becomes much like the US with just two parties, but if the current system isn't working, fix it.

It's not, therefore fix it. And the Gov Gen get's the final say either way. Maybe she'll just tell everyone to grow the hell up and get back to work, or get a good spank on the butt...... hmmmmm......

How can the coalition create more high paying jobs short of expanding the government 10 fold? The manufacturing sector is disappearing and those types of high paying jobs are likely gone for good.

All I have heard is that there will be a bailout of the auto manufacturers, which might help Ontario for a bit but what does that do for the western or eastern provinces?

Speaking from the Atlantic area, I say go for it. Get them all fixed up, because plenty of those parts they use come from here as well which would be included into the package.... a few companies like Michelin Tire in Pictou Country laid off a bunch i heard a few days ago, and a few places up in Cape Breton. And I know there was plenty of more.

It's not just Ontario that get's the help.

If it is, then damit, get me my torch and pitch fork.... we'be havin an ol' fashion Reee-volt..... yip yip yeeeeaaaahhhh!
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,384
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It would at first appear that the big three misread the market, but who could have predicted the mess the economy turned into? And the gas prices? With the gas prices now dropping big time, who knows? Maybe the SUV market will pick up.


Risus....Once bitten, twice shy. Twice bitten is a sign of some mental defect on the
part of the consumer.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,677
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
They screwed Ontario.... I bet it will be decades before thay have a chance for power there again...

They've done quite well here in Nova Scotia for as long as I can remember... at last I can relate to much of their plans, I can't remember them directly screwing the province over at anytime, or bringing up any ideas that would and they've been more straight forward with what's going on then any of the other parties.

Layton brought the best to the elction out of all the other leaders, explained himself better then any of the others, and knew when to attack the other guy without going into low blows...... and if you think the sweater comments were low blows, geez, you missed out on a lot.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,384
10,691
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
And let's not forget that our best pal Harper and his party goers did the exact same thing back when Martin was PM.


Praxius, what you're describing was an agreement between the Bloc, NDP, & the Conservatives, in
writing, as a proposal to the Governor General to bring forth an election if need be to bring about
a change in Government from the Liberals under Paul Martin, letting the people decide with an
election the future fate of the country.

This was NOT a proposal to form a coalition government between the NDP & Conservatives, with
the Bloc having veto power over all future votes for that term. That is not the exact same thing.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
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Toronto
- Company isn't dragged down by the 19'th century unions representing the domestic builders

Here is an eye opener for you....non-union autoworkers makes as much and sometimes more than the unionized employees. Why is that?

Why haven't these non-union people stepped up to the plate and proposed wage cuts to support their jobs? If they were sucjh wonderful caring Canadians they would be the first ones piling the hay on the bandwagon and tuning up their fiddles.

Its the pansion plan that the union negotiated that is screwing the companies..
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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If the Conservatives have done their damn jobs in the first place as they should have, we all wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
The Conservatives were doing their job and if they were not - Canada would be in the same mess that the USA is in. Things are getting tougher by the day and with this added mess they are about to get much worse. People holding back room meetings to bring down the government instead of figuring out ways to help the economy should not be leading this country. They should have been working with government - not working against it in a power struggle. Mr. Dion is a nice man but he'll never make a leader. Jack Layton should live in a back room - forever out of sight. Once again we are an embarassment to the world.
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
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Lower Mainland, BC
Quoting DurkaDurka How can the coalition create more high paying jobs short of expanding the government 10 fold? The manufacturing sector is disappearing and those types of high paying jobs are likely gone for good.


Those jobs are gone only because we do nothing to protect them.

People keep saying jobs are gone for good but job keep returning after bumps in the economy or recessions because there is demand. We could not pull out of these problems in the economy without job creation if we did not have new job demand.. When people create fear it domino's like the stock market and bosses trade off positions like shares shedding off people.. When the time is right, others create the frenzy of job requirements making it look like there are not enough people for the market conditions asking the Government for more immigrants. That’s the way I see it.

Its just a way to keep salaries below proper levels by crying wolf.. If we have such a problem with job losses then close down or lower immigration during the recession.. It can always be adjusted again when times are better..
 
System

This issue is why would a government listen in, record and distribute an opposition party call?

As for the alliance - that is our parlimentary system. The question is - will Stephen Harper and his neocons respect it?

NDP recordings proof of power grab, Tory MP alleges


Kinda funny that all of a sudden any opposition parties decide to have a secret meeting, the conservatives are all over it and sneaking audio recordings of them, while if any of them did that in the past to the conservatives, they'd be sued in 2 minutes..... not to mention the majority of the Conservatives meetings have been tight lipped and their talks closed to the public, it's pretty hypocritical for them to be pulling this conny stunt to make the other parties look bad.

And if I was heading back into another government where the Conservatives are the minority leaders and they show signs of doing exactly what they have been doing since they've been the head hanchos, I'd be planning an escape plan as well if they attempted to continue their corrupt tactics which they did.

And now they're supposed to be the bad guys because they decided to plan ahead? Wow.... what a concept.

Sure beats the Conservative's plans on doing nothing and just forcing your wacky ideas onto every other party and citizen or face another expensive election during poor economic times.

What a joke. Doesn't suprise me that they'd try something as lame as this and release it to the public..... right or wrong, what they did was obviously illegal..... so why did they do it?

Because the average canadian would want to know? Wrong.... .it's fear mongering and if the majority of Canadians who voted didn't vote for the Conservatives in the first place, then forming up a government that has the parties that were voted in collectively above the Conservatives run things makes more sense at this time.

It's either that or we suffer with more of the Conservatives dumb ass methods of pitting everybody againsts each other for their own party's political gains.

If the Conservatives have done their damn jobs in the first place as they should have, we all wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ontario
The Conservatives were doing their job and if they were not - Canada would be in the same mess that the USA is in.

Sorry, Islandpacific, but I give that credit to Liberals. While Bush was busy ruining USA’s economy by running huge deficits and easy availability of sub prime mortgages from 2000 to 2008, liberals were doing a great job of managing Canada’s economy, were running a healthy surplus, we didn’t have sub prime mortgages in Canada.

Harper has been in power only for three years. To his credit, he did not run the economy into ground, he pretty much continued Liberal policies (except he frittered away all the surplus by giving tax cuts mainly to the rich).

So economically Cons were doing OK, but not brilliant. They did continue to follow Liberal policies, but they frittered away all the deficit.

However, after the recent election, conservatives were most certainly not doing their job. The financial statement was an unmitigated disaster. There was no consultation with the opposition, no economic stimulus, some petty, partisan cost cutting (like cutting off the public funding of political parties) etc.

I don’t think Liberals were particularly anxious to assume power, they don’t even have a leader. NDP works best in opposition, sniping at the government. I don’t think either Liberal or NDP wanted to assume power. Conservatives brought this down on themselves.
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
4,968
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Flaherty sounded unusually subdued. While his future was not discussed, questions about his role as finance minister can be expected now that the economic strategy has blown up in the government's face
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
If they are recording people without their knowledge then that is certainly true.

The media says it was a conservative that dialled into a caucus conference line...it could have just as easily been an illegal wiretap and amounts to about the same...

One has to wonder how a member of the conservative party could have appropriated a number to call into a private NDP caucus meeting...

And why would this John Duncan think it was even remotely ethical to tape a private conversation that he rightfully should have had no opportunity to hear...
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
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The Conservatives were doing their job and if they were not - Canada would be in the same mess that the USA is in.

Sorry, Islandpacific, but I give that credit to Liberals. While Bush was busy ruining USA’s economy by running huge deficits and easy availability of sub prime mortgages from 2000 to 2008, liberals were doing a great job of managing Canada’s economy, were running a healthy surplus, we didn’t have sub prime mortgages in Canada.

Harper has been in power only for three years. To his credit, he did not run the economy into ground, he pretty much continued Liberal policies (except he frittered away all the surplus by giving tax cuts mainly to the rich).

So economically Cons were doing OK, but not brilliant. They did continue to follow Liberal policies, but they frittered away all the deficit.

However, after the recent election, conservatives were most certainly not doing their job. The financial statement was an unmitigated disaster. There was no consultation with the opposition, no economic stimulus, some petty, partisan cost cutting (like cutting off the public funding of political parties) etc.

I don’t think Liberals were particularly anxious to assume power, they don’t even have a leader. NDP works best in opposition, sniping at the government. I don’t think either Liberal or NDP wanted to assume power. Conservatives brought this down on themselves.
Sir Joe,
I know you like the Liberals and at times, so have I. They know they are not in a position to lead this country at this moment and they should have gracefully backed off. I truly see nothing but the complete destruction of Canada with this going on. It's wrong. I don't agree that the conservatives are doing everything wrong at all. I also do not agree that the Liberals did everything right. Let us not forget the Sponsorship scandal. There has to be a reason the Liberals are broke. Cutting off public funding meant a higher loss to the conservatives then it did to the other parties. Of course the liberals were anxious to be in power. If they were not there would not have been any meetings regarding a coalition. It all came about a little sooner then planned obviously, since they didn't have a leader. I know, that you know, Mr. Dion is not a leader. Where's Crow anyway? :lol: This is not a time for a coalition, for an election or for in-party fighting. This is a time for this country to work together like never before.