The quality of food and how well the washroom is kept is what decides my tip. You aren't just tipping the server but the entire staff draws from the tip pool.
More Greed to hit the Olympics
- Thread starter JLM
- Start date
Is it a trade? Any schooling? Are there not unions?
Eat at delis and like the locals do. You could eat a completely different style of ham and cheese sandwich every day for the rest of your life for $4cdn. $5.50 - $6 if you get a 1/2 litre of beer or wine.
similar to 'what' I do now. great food, like I make at home, homemade hearty
soups, sandwitches made to order, healthy and tasty.
For a time my daughter worked as a waitress in a pub. At the pub the four waitresses and the two bartenders shared the tips at the end of the day. Most days she would make a hundred and fifty dollars in tips as well as the minimum wage she was paid.
And for that reason,the govt of PEI is/has a 'two teird" min,wage, sounds fair to me. Makes you wonder whose cousin has a fancy eatery.
Just taking this back on topic for a moment. I feel that the mandatory tip is good for the wait staff. They are going to be busting their humps for people from other countries that never tip and look down upon waitresses and waiters.
Another thing which not everyone realizes is, that as a server, most restaurants will require you to give a portion of your daily tips to the host(esses), bartenders and kitchen staff. I will follow now by giving a hypothetical situation using the percentages that my restaurant uses.
As a server, if I were to sell $1000.00 worth of combined goods a day (alcohol and food), my restaurant requires that I give 1.5% of that to the bar staff. Also, the amount that I am required to give the host and kitchen team is 2.5%. This totals a combined percentage of 4%. So for every $1000.00 I sell, I give away $40.00 of my own tips that I have received throughout my shift. If I was to make the national standard of 15% tips on that $1000.00 then I will have made $150.00 in tips, giving $40.00 away to the other staff I will end up with $110.00.
This is just my restaurant however, many other restaurants have a similar if not the same policy for "tipping out" as we call it. So what is scary for restaurants during the olympics is that many people from different parts of the world do not understand tipping, and may even try to avoid tipping due to Vancouver already being an expensive city to travel to. So if a server were to make 5% tips of selling 1000.00 worth of goods, they would still be required to "tip out" their bar, host, and kitchens staff 4%, they would only be walking away with $10.00.
I understand all those numbers make it a bit confusing, but I hope that it provides you with a different perspective when considering this issue.
As a server, if I were to sell $1000.00 worth of combined goods a day (alcohol and food), my restaurant requires that I give 1.5% of that to the bar staff. Also, the amount that I am required to give the host and kitchen team is 2.5%. This totals a combined percentage of 4%. So for every $1000.00 I sell, I give away $40.00 of my own tips that I have received throughout my shift. If I was to make the national standard of 15% tips on that $1000.00 then I will have made $150.00 in tips, giving $40.00 away to the other staff I will end up with $110.00.
This is just my restaurant however, many other restaurants have a similar if not the same policy for "tipping out" as we call it. So what is scary for restaurants during the olympics is that many people from different parts of the world do not understand tipping, and may even try to avoid tipping due to Vancouver already being an expensive city to travel to. So if a server were to make 5% tips of selling 1000.00 worth of goods, they would still be required to "tip out" their bar, host, and kitchens staff 4%, they would only be walking away with $10.00.
I understand all those numbers make it a bit confusing, but I hope that it provides you with a different perspective when considering this issue.
That's all lovely. However, tips are not mandatory, and there is no legal obligation for the diner to pay more than the bill presented. There is a bizarre expectation that people will tip; it's become ridiculous.
Well, it might be bizarre for you, but to the rest of the general public it isn't bizarre. It has been a north american custom and practice for many years now, and its not going to change. It has been the norm to tip 15% for a long time now, though slowly its rising to new levels, generally 18%. More and more restaurants are charging an automatic gratuity on larger parties of six or more. So whether you think its ridiculous or not, its getting higher and its here to stay. If you think its ridiculous, I suggest you eat at home, or get a job in the food service industry, and then we'll see how you feel about it.
Thats true, but they dont add a 10-15% tip to the bill in a region that people are expected/ accustomed to leaving a cash tip. People are getting jewed simple as that.
I'd be interested to see what you'd say if you bought a house, and the agent decided that you owed her 15% on top of what you'd agreed to pay for the house.
Or, say, at the grocery store, if the cashier asked for 15% of the bill, because she smiled as she rang up your order.
You can fall back on your 'custom' and 'the norm' stuff all you want, but you still can't come up with a rational justification for demanding that customers pay you extra because you've actually done your job.
You should try to be a little more flexible in your thinking. Tips in the final analysis are going to be exactly what the spending public feels they should be. I heard the figure you mention of 15% being bandied about for years, but it's not carved in stone. A couple of years ago there was a tipping expert on T.V. (at least he probably considered himself an expert) and commented on the proper tipping amount for various services. He said 12% was acceptible for good service at a restaurant. For myself it depends on three things, first the service, second my mood and third how much money I have jingling in my jeans. I've been known to tip anywhere from zero to 25% (for 25 all three of the stated criteria would have to be at about 100%) One thing for sure (and I don't give a sh*t if the waitress is Ann Margret topless) if the joint thinks they are going to extract an extra 18% out of me- well that would be about the only reason you would find me across the street at McDonalds.
I can see where you are "coming from", but I think you could have picked better analogies. Real estate agents aren't (generally speaking if they are any good) working for $10 an hour. But having said that the whole restaurant mentality is backwards. First of all if you think you are worth more than minimum wage you take a job that pays more, you don't sit around whining about minimum wage at the job you have. Secondly when you come to the conclusion that minimum wage is your only option (for the time being) you roll up your sleeves and put on the best performance for the boss (and the customer) so that one or two things is going to happen- one the boss is going to be overwhelmed with the added trade you have brought him and will gladly pay you more and two the customer is going to gladly tip you so you can quit whining about your wage. One thing for sure if I come in your restaurant (with the multitude of restaurants these days) and you piss me off I won't be coming back. As a side note I just heard on the news yesterday that our salt intake mainly attributable to processed food and restaurant food is killing us- so I don't really need much incentive to quit patronizing "greasy spoons" anyway.
Generally that is true, but it's no reason to rip them off. That is short term thinking, for which Canada is sadly becoming well-known...
Yikes! Did you really want to put it that way? The PC Police are going to get you!
I do agree with you on your point though...
Well, you started it - if you're going to start insulting some of your customers when they disagree with you (and suggesting they stay at home if they dislike your bizarre position on mandatory tipping), then perhaps it's time to take a shot at the business itself.
The food service industry is about as creative with pay as they are about some of the crappy food they serve. Not all, but many, many of them.
If you go to a typical "family" restaurant, most if not all the stuff they use/buy comes from a very few suppliers. The menus are mundane and pretty much look the same, right down to the crappy "kids menu" with the obligatory chicken fingers and other such non-food crap. The "adults menu" is just as sad...
The attitudes of some of the employees are a direct reflection of the manager/owner. When I go into a restaurant and am greeted with, "You'll have to wait 30 minutes for a table", instead of "thank you for coming to our restaurant, we're glad to see you!", I can tell exactly how far up his/her butt the manager's head is. And by that, I mean the business has regressed to the point where a customer is taken for granted so the focus is on all the problems facing the manager in simply running the place. That's called being in a "defensive mode" and it's not a pretty place to be in a "service" business. When I see everyone running around in a harried mood, trying to keep up with the flow (in a rush or "surge" situation), I don't really feel welcome at all.
I've met a lot of so-called restaurant managers who don't understand the word "manager" beyond being able to spell it. To me, "management" means "Getting things done through people", yet the vast majority of restaurants don't seem to get it. If they did, serving would no longer be a minimum wage job open to people who generally get little training on how to deal with customers, rush situations, and so on. Menu training? Oh yes, they get that, and they certainly get training on how to take and handle their money.
But the essence of the business (any business), the thing that keeps it going, the lifeblood of the damn thing is PEOPLE...CUSTOMERS! And employees should be no. 2 on the list, right after the customers. But they aren't, are they?
Again, if the priorities were set right and managed properly, we wouldn't be seeing servers all paid the same minimum wage and have to rely on tips to make up a hopefully decent income. Yeah, I know some make a few cents more per hour than others, but essentially they all fall into the same basic range on pay. And they're not even in a union! Amazing. So you decide that simply gouging the public with mandatory tips to make up a survival wage is the way to go. Boy, that's creative.
The industry has succeeded in driving serving jobs down to a minimal level of pay and I can only assume it's because the job is not looked upon as being important. If it was deemed to be critical to the business, then the pay structure would look a lot different. One way to figure this issue of importance out really fast is to envision what would happen if none of the servers showed up for their shifts...how many of your pre-fab "meals" would you be able to shove down the public's throat that day or night?
If the job is important and critical to the business, then the pay should reflect that. It does in any other business, why not the food service industry? Because they have fallen into a giant rut, and they don't even know it. The reason many of your kind are in business is because people like to eat out, for various reasons...they don't know how to cook, the don't care much about food, they don't have time to cook, and many more...
But, there is a trend coming at the industry that may well change things around a lot...it's called "eating crap will make you sick" and that information is finding its way into the mainstream news more often these days...the high blood pressure problems in younger people, the obesity, the diabetes epidemic, etc.
If the food service industry was on the ball (which it is not, for the most part) it would be doing some very fast and thorough work to get ahead of this one in order to help the cause. I don't see that happening in a big way.
From a traditional marketing standpoint, you (the industry) has succeeded in driving the "family restaurant" down to what is known as a "pure competition" situation. All the stuff looks the same, smells the same, tastes the same, because it all comes from the same sources. The only differentation opportunities you have are in service, atmosphere, location, and not much else. Your price levels are pretty much the same.
It appears that the big focus in restaurant management is on portion sizes, cost per unit, etc. All "control" stuff...which is necessary, but it's stuff that should be done in order to help manage the overall thrust - to give the diners the best food experience possible, and that part appears to missing.
Given all that, it's not much wonder the mandatory tip situation is a hot issue right now in Vancouver, or at least here on this forum. What you're telling the customers is, "Look. We're not going to provide you with anything different in your dining experience, we're just going to charge you more money for it. Lots more."
If any other business raised prices by 18% overnight, they'd be facing a riot from their customers. But not you guys...oh no, it's all perfectly legal because you're calling it a gratuity instead of a price increase. To a customer, it's the same thing - they HAVE to pay it. Sounds like "price-fixing" to me.
There are, of course, lots of exceptions to the stuff I am ranting about - specialty restaurants, above-average dining establishments, and many more - and they certainly stand out in the crowd. The reason they stand out is that they are in fact focused on their customers and it shows.
It just needs to be done a lot more frequently, perhaps to the point where a run-of-the-mill, poorly-run establishment would become the exception, not the rule.
You got that right Countryboy- if you leave a little money in their jeans it makes them more eager to participate in the next event. It's like a good merchant leaving the customer with some money so he can come back.
It's not the worker demanding anything, it is the establishment, they pay their workers 'poorly', and
demand that the customer top it up.
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