Mankind's greatest gift

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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It is lucky for us that we are flawed. Perfection entombs. It is to be hoped that we never reach a perfect state. That would indicate the end of our time. Killing is a problem with no solution but death as we literally extract our daily bread from the bodies and bones of multiple other organisms. Maybe it's the way we do it that needs improving. Birds in the morning are great. I have breakfast every day with seven chickens, they love me, they insist it isn't the grain but my personality.
Flaws build character.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Mankind, being the most dominant life form, did not get to achieve that distinction by sheer luck. There have been many gifts to mankind by God/Providence/Nature, etc. that puts us where we are.

What "gift" do you think was the most important or significant that enabled mankind to reach that plateau?

My guess would be sex drive.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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...empathy....

...quest to expand our knowledge....

... responsibility for all his environment ...

curiosity

I find it interesting YukonJack that all these things have led to what you brought up (in another thread though), as being our greatest gift. When wolves first snuck close to lie down with man around his fire, without all these traits, we'd have missed the chance at our future companions.
 

YukonJack

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Dec 26, 2008
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karrie, there people like me who are optimists and see the world as a glass half full, with potential to fill that glass full. That is why I started THIS post.

Now, I do not know you, so I do not know that you are a pessimist or not.

But since you opened up a thread in direct opposition to mine, I suspect that you are. I would much rather see and be happy about what we benefitted from whatever source, than cry and moan about what got us wrong.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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karrie, there people like me who are optimists and see the world as a glass half full, with potential to fill that glass full. That is why I started THIS post.

Now, I do not know you, so I do not know that you are a pessimist or not.

But since you opened up a thread in direct opposition to mine, I suspect that you are. I would much rather see and be happy about what we benefitted from whatever source, that cry and moan about what got us wrong.

I responded to your thread before opening the counter point to it. The reason I opened the counter point was Anna's first post in this thread, which challenged the notion that we are dominant, and apparently frustrated you. I knew that the conversation would spark the polar opposite notion of where design shorted us.

Pessimistic? I opened the thread with a penis joke YukonJack... lol. I tend to look at the world with a pretty light hearted view 90% of the time.
 

YukonJack

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karrie, I understand.

Will it be you or me who will request the moderators to combie our two threads and request to remove personal attacks like post #27?
 

karrie

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karrie, I understand.

Will it be you or me who will request the moderators to combie our two threads and request to remove personal attacks like post #27?

I personally don't want the threads combined... I opened mine as a more light hearted look at design flaws. Yours I think touches a lot more deeply on what it is to be human, even if that's not what you'd intended. Actually, when I first went looking, I sought it out in the spirituality forum rather than the science forum (although both work just fine imo).

I figured simply bringing the conversation up in here sufficed to draw your idea of the greatest gift man has been given over here. If you disagree, I guess you can take it up with a mod, I won't complain.

To get back to what I was hoping to discuss with you though, I found your implication interesting and timely for me personally. Having just lost my dog of 13 years, the first 'child' I ever raised. A constant companion at the foot of my bed. A constant source of amusement during my days. I found it rang true that they are a great gift, but I also couldn't help but wonder what it is about humanity that makes us capable of pet keeping. Is it our empathy? Our resources such as fire? Our sense of responsibility for the world around us as Curiosity put it? Or our sense of curiosity as someone else said?
 

VanIsle

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Nov 12, 2008
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I think keeping a pet shows our need for companionship and quite possibly our need to be loved un-conditionally. For some it's a sense of ownership and power.
 

Outta here

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Jul 8, 2005
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I think keeping a pet shows our need for companionship and quite possibly our need to be loved un-conditionally. For some it's a sense of ownership and power.

I agree VI - pet ownership serves different needs for different people.

I have a friend who has a dog, and he certainly loves his dog, but he also takes great pride in showing his dominance over the dog. The dog listens beautifully to any command it's given... and comparatively, my dog is a wayward mutt that listens to little more than the sound of kibble landing in his dish... but I find myself feeling somehow more rewarded to have his company by his own choice rather than through a command to "come here". He will listen if I use a particularly stern voice to some basic commands, but I find myself loath to do so unless it's an issue of safety.

It's actually disturbing to me when I see pet owners treating their animals like objects to be ordered around to the point of being told when to sit, stand, pee, lie down, move, don't move etc. This seems to me more an issue of power and dominance than mutual companionship and respect.

I know there are many dog owners out there who would disagree, and their dogs would certainly put mine to shame in the obedience department, but considering my dog was a cowering, frightened pup that already showed signs of abuse when I got him, his 'not listening' to me now tells me I've restored his self confidence and sense of personal safety. This to me is far more important than having a dog that sits pretty upon my whim.

ah.. ooops... I may have digressed - perhaps this ought to go into the off topic thread. lolll
 

YukonJack

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Dec 26, 2008
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Beautiful post, Zan, and I could not agree with you more.

Since we have been married, my wife and I always had at least one dog. They all came from farms or shelters, except my retirement present who was a purebread Chesapeake Bay Retriever.

All of them have been our friends. When they died, we cried, and when our present two doggies go to the great leash-free area in the sky, we will weep again. Our Chessie is getting a bit white on his chin. Our little lemon beagle is getting slower and not so eager to take off on a scent.

Yes, I may be crazy, but I think one of the greatest gifts we humans ever received from God/Providence/Nature/etc. is the loving companionship of our dogs.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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It is lucky for us that we are flawed. Perfection entombs. It is to be hoped that we never reach a perfect state. That would indicate the end of our time. Killing is a problem with no solution but death as we literally extract our daily bread from the bodies and bones of multiple other organisms. Maybe it's the way we do it that needs improving. Birds in the morning are great. I have breakfast every day with seven chickens, they love me, they insist it isn't the grain but my personality.
Flaws build character.
How would we know what perfection is all about? All we have is guesswork. It's like gods; it's hardly likely that if there are such critters, we'd not know much about them.
 

AnnaG

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I think keeping a pet shows our need for companionship and quite possibly our need to be loved un-conditionally. For some it's a sense of ownership and power.
Yeah. Other than luck,without which we wouldn't even exist, I'd say friendship/companionship (with whatever critter one finds friendship with) is pretty high on the list.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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Zan, that is the way we have raised our animals as well. Our dog was very disciplined, but only in the same ways the kids are. She understood and responded to tone as if she understood us, better than any pet who knows 100 'tricks' in my opinion. One prime example is her natural obedience of lawns as if they were fenced, simply because when she was a pup, hubby walked our yard with her, saying 'no' in a disappointed voice when she'd walk out onto the sidewalk. She'd walk back into the yard, he'd say 'good girl' in a rewarding tone. One trip around the yard, and for a life time she understood it. We never withheld anything from her to elicit behaviour... that was one that always bugged me... withholding a treat until the dog did something just so. Instead, she would do tricks just for enjoyment... climb slides so that she could slide with the kids, etc.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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How would we know what perfection is all about? All we have is guesswork. It's like gods; it's hardly likely that if there are such critters, we'd not know much about them.

Where do you go from perfect? Robbed of curiosity? No adventures left. No surprises just boring old perfection day after day after day after day after day I think an eternity of perfection would be hell. I don't think I'm qualified to opine about perfection afteral.:lol: