MacKay says chopper deal 'worst' in Canada's history

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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MacKay says chopper deal 'worst' in Canada's history

Defence Minister Peter MacKay called Canada's deal to buy Sikorsky naval helicopters, "the worst procurement in the history of Canada," at a press conference at the Irving Shipyard in Halifax Tuesday.

Canada's long-promised fleet of new Sikorsky naval helicopters, already four years late and $300 million over budget, likely won't be delivered and ready for combat for up to another five years, informed industry sources told CBC News at the begining of July.

MacKay was in Halifax on Tuesday to announce a $9.3-million contract to the Irving-owned yard to study the designs of Arctic patrol vessels.

Responding to a question from a reporter about the delays with the new helicopter fleet, MacKay said the Department of Public Works is pushing as hard as possible to deliver the already delayed aircraft.

"Unlike shipbuilding, that was a brand new design that was put in place through negotiations by a prior government. We inherited this contract," MacKay said.

"This is an example of how procurement can go badly wrong. This is the worst procurement in the history of Canada, including the $500-million cancellation costs that are attached to the Maritime helicopter program and then the costs of further maintenance to fly 50-year-old helicopters. They're going to go right out of aviation service and into the museum in Ottawa. And that's not a joke."

In 1992, the Conservative government under Brian Mulroney signed a contract worth $4.8 billion to buy 50 EH-101 helicopters from the Anglo-Italian consortium European Helicopter Industries Ltd.

But when the Liberals took power a year later, they axed the deal, which cost $500 million in cancellation fees.

MacKay went on to say the government is focused on getting the new helicopters delivered.

"I saw a Sea King aboard the Charlottetown when we were in the Gulf and that aircraft has been replaced piece by piece, almost in its entirety, so there is urgency to get the Maritime helicopter program on track," he said.

"We know it's behind schedule but the helicopters themselves are flying, as you've seen they're doing sea trials over the harbour. They don't have all the onboard equipment that is required for us to take possession yet."

Last month, Connecticut-based Sikorsky missed its latest contract deadline to finish delivering 28 sleek, state-of-the-art Cyclone maritime helicopters to replace Canada’s nearly 50-year-old fleet of increasingly unreliable Sea Kings.

MacKay says chopper deal 'worst' in Canada's history - Nova Scotia - CBC News
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
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Ontario
I agree with MacKay. Besides the cost and time over runs. The reinventing of the wheel that our procurement people are known for. As they try and make something already a proven platform, into something uniquely Canadian. Have come back to bite us in the ass.

Why can't we get one gov't that can get this sh!t right?
 

ABconservative

New Member
Jul 11, 2012
17
0
1
Alberta
If we dont get new equipment for the Canadian Forces we will never get a chance to stand up for this nations beliefs. The same goes for the CF-35 project. The CF-18s are becoming out of date and the US is phasing them out . So why shouldnt we ? Now I know what you are thinking ... Canada is not a military superpower like the United States but we have to be able to defend ourselves without the US.
With the US debt crisis reaching a trillion dollars this month just for 2012 and there defence budget getting slashed up to 1.2 billion dollars. They can't always protect us.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
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Canada has reached an agreement with United Technologies Corp's Sikorsky Aircraft unit to reactivate a C$5 billion ($4.7 billion) deal to buy 28 helicopters that had been beset by delays and was almost scrapped by Ottawa.


Canada signed a contract in 2004 for Sikorsky's Cyclone helicopters to replace its ageing fleet of Sea Kings. But after delays and complications, Ottawa announced last September that it might scrap the deal and consider other options.


The Conservative government now says it has accepted the recommendations of a third-party report for a different project model and governance structure.


It reached an agreement with Sikorsky on Dec. 31, which will form the basis for formal contract negotiations. Sikorsky also agreed to pay Canada $88.6 million in liquidated damages for non-delivery.


"Under the new terms established in the Principles of Agreement, Sikorsky has committed to deliver the needed helicopter capability at no additional cost to Canada," Diane Finley, Canada's minister of public works and government services, said in a statement.
"In addition, the Government of Canada will only issue further payment to Sikorsky upon capability delivery," she said.


Canada will see delivery of helicopters with enough capability to allow the government to begin retiring its old helicopters in 2015. Sikorsky will enhance those capabilities to produce "fully capable" CH 148 Cyclone helicopters in 2018.


Byron Callan, analyst with Capital Alpha Securities, said the deal was not material for a company the size of United Technologies, but it would allow Sikorsky to move past an issue that had been a source of concern.


"It's a Christmas present come late," Callan said. "It allows them a clean slate to start the new year."
Sikorsky officials welcomed the deal.


"We are very pleased to have reached this agreement with the Crown and look forward to a contract amendment while we continue to move the program forward," said spokesman Paul Jackson.


Sikorsky has so far provided just a handful of Cyclones for training purposes, and said last year that some of the delays were caused by major modifications requested by Canada.


On Friday, the company apologized for the delays but said it was confident the new plan would succeed.


"As the pre-eminent helicopter manufacturer in the world, we regret that we have not executed this program to the satisfaction of the Government of Canada and that no aircraft were delivered in 2013," said Sikorsky President Mick Maurer.






UPDATE 2-Canada says back on track to buy Sikorsky helicopters | Reuters
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
We need choppers and we need them now. We also apparently needed jets and
that was screwed up too, We bought some trucks that were useless and we got
those subs from Britain. We need some people that know what the hell they are
doing then we need equipment
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
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Aether Island
Here is a candle to light you to bed.
Here is a chopper to chop off your head.
- Military procurement nusery rhyme
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,892
129
63
Mulroney ordered perfectly good choppers but Cretin wouldn't have it.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,892
129
63
Walter to be fair, how well has Harper been about getting new equipment.
Look at the procurement times.
To be fair we'd have the bloody choppers by now if Cretin hadn't had a pique.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Moving
To be fair we'd have the bloody choppers by now if Cretin hadn't had a pique.

Not what I asked- the ships- a gift of billions to the Irving's.
They have chopped the operational training budget- yest Contractors have exploded in Ottawa.
Old stats- nearly 1 in 5 Military were Officers.
Wheeled transport- Nada.
Years to fix the chopper issue.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,440
1,396
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Alberta
I agree with Bear. If we are going to arm and equip our military we need stop with the bullsh!t Canadian label and get the best bang for our buck. That doesn't mean awarding contracts to Bombardier. It means doing the research, aligning it with Nato and making the purchase. The money we waisted on that Italian hunk of junk LSVW when we could have bought Humvees with large surplus of spare parts was a complete travesty. Maybe if we shot a few of the bureacrats we could expedite the process a little faster.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
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Nakusp, BC
I agree with Bear. If we are going to arm and equip our military we need stop with the bullsh!t Canadian label and get the best bang for our buck. That doesn't mean awarding contracts to Bombardier. It means doing the research, aligning it with Nato and making the purchase. The money we waisted on that Italian hunk of junk LSVW when we could have bought Humvees with large surplus of spare parts was a complete travesty. Maybe if we shot a few of the bureacrats we could expedite the process a little faster.
Lock and load Dude! The job is yours.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
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The Conservative government has agreed to accept new helicopters to replace Canada's 50-year-old fleet of Sea Kings even though they don't meet a key requirement recommended for marine helicopters by Canada's air safety investigator.




CBC News has learned the details of what the government has agreed to forego in order to conclude a long-awaited new deal with Sikorsky, and it includes a formerly mandatory safety measure: a 30-minute run-dry standard for its main gear box.


The importance of the ability to fly for 30 minutes after a loss of lubrication in the main gear box was reinforced by an investigation into a deadly 2009 crash of a Sikorsky-built helicopter.


The gearbox is a kind of linkage between the helicopters engines and its rotor system. It's packed with lubricating oil that cools the gears and keeps power flowing to the rotors. If a helicopter loses oil in its main gearbox, the system will get too hot and either seize up or otherwise fail. That would lead to a loss of power in the rotor, forcing a helicopter from the sky.


A helicopter that meets the run-dry standard can continue flying for 30 minutes even if there's no oil in the main gear box — a critical feature for helicopters flying hundreds of kilometres out to sea.


"I am shocked, this is a very dangerous thing," said Jack Harris, the NDP's defence critic.


"This is a major safety requirement ... necessary for the safety of the aircraft operating in the maritime environment.


"This is a significant safety issue."


"There are other helicopters that can meet that standard," Jack Harris said. "These guys signed a contract with this as a requirement. They said they could do it."




more




Sea King replacements: $7.6B Cyclone maritime helicopters lack key safety requirement - Politics - CBC News
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,677
161
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
But hey, whoever picked those Leopard Tanks did a good job. One of the best tanks out there.


But then again, the L2's are already dated like everything else we got.


It would be nice to get some contracts internally for some striving businesses in Canada to pitch their own designs. Not just for jobs, but also for the specific insight towards what the nation needs for the environments they'll operate in as well as keeping the innovation and "national security" of how our equipment operates "In-House" rather than in the hands of other nations.


Canada used to do that in the past it should do it again. There are a few things that are still Canadian made like the C14 Timberwolf, Coyote, Grizzly, etc. But a lot of the equipment like aircraft, tanks, ships are either leased/purchased from other nations or simply out dated.


Bring back Avro..... The company, not the member :p
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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The Conservative government has agreed to accept new helicopters to replace Canada's 50-year-old fleet of Sea Kings even though they don't meet a key requirement recommended for marine helicopters by Canada's air safety investigator.




CBC News has learned the details of what the government has agreed to forego in order to conclude a long-awaited new deal with Sikorsky, and it includes a formerly mandatory safety measure: a 30-minute run-dry standard for its main gear box.


The importance of the ability to fly for 30 minutes after a loss of lubrication in the main gear box was reinforced by an investigation into a deadly 2009 crash of a Sikorsky-built helicopter.


The gearbox is a kind of linkage between the helicopters engines and its rotor system. It's packed with lubricating oil that cools the gears and keeps power flowing to the rotors. If a helicopter loses oil in its main gearbox, the system will get too hot and either seize up or otherwise fail. That would lead to a loss of power in the rotor, forcing a helicopter from the sky.


A helicopter that meets the run-dry standard can continue flying for 30 minutes even if there's no oil in the main gear box — a critical feature for helicopters flying hundreds of kilometres out to sea.


"I am shocked, this is a very dangerous thing," said Jack Harris, the NDP's defence critic.


"This is a major safety requirement ... necessary for the safety of the aircraft operating in the maritime environment.


"This is a significant safety issue."


"There are other helicopters that can meet that standard," Jack Harris said. "These guys signed a contract with this as a requirement. They said they could do it."




more




Sea King replacements: $7.6B Cyclone maritime helicopters lack key safety requirement - Politics - CBC News
Whoever wrote that has zero mechanical mackground.