Long Gun Registry -Yes- No

Long Gun Registry - For - Against - To Lazy to care


  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
3
38
Vancouver
*yawn* >stretch< mmm... coffee...

Okee dokee... back to normal, disfunctional reality. Ever been asked to mediate a stalemated US-China trade dispute between two peanut players both of whom want to sound like they represent a bigger share of their national self interest than the leaders in their respective capitals could possibly given a damn about where the only solution was to initiate a sake shooting contest? Not me, but seriously, how doomed does the planet have to be when a Canadian is considered by two super-power brats to be the consultant with the big-world picture?

Anyway, as stated earlier in less than eloquent terms, I got about 2/3 of the way through the act, and gave up. It's a mess, with committeeized big-city never-seen-the-stars finger prints all over it. It's counter productive, and now I'm nervous for the safety and utility my tools represent.

So... *sigh*... I hate hate hate the "political process", but it can't sit there the way it is.

Of course, the simple thing would be to scrap it, which I bet is what will happen because any more would require Harper to delegate some neurons to thinking about something other than how he's going to organize a scare-campaign freaking people into thinking their only options in the next election will be either a majority conservative government or a liberal-NDP coalition with BQ complicity, without anyone noticing that the latter is exactly the option that exists now, and without anyone noticing that he didn't mention the option of a liberal majority, however I can see why cops like the registry, and I bet they're the first ones to see the potentially dangerous flaws in it, and my hunch is they're currently choosing not to seriously enforce the bad parts for no other reason than because they're not in a bad mood, so if we grant that it might be good for society as a whole to figure out a way to keep the parts that work, how should a registry work?

So, for starters, anybody got a problem with all legitimately owned weapons being chipped? It would be like a permanent license-plate drilled into the stock of old weapons, and embedded into the triggering mechanism or firing pin mechanism of new weapons.

If people can live with that, then what information should be in a registry database to link the weapon to an owner. I'm thinking bare-bones, i.e. some details about the weapon to make sure the chip hasn't been ported from a different weapon, plus name, and date of birth (although that doesn't always work, because my brother got busted for something he didn't do, and it turned out there was another person with exactly the same name, including middle name, *and* the same date of birth, such that they had to go back to school records and have him say the names of his elementary school teachers to be let go).

How does that sit with everyone? What information should be in the registry database?

PS - last night I was being a dick pestering people to see if they knew the two things that stand out about Canada in the eyes of the rest of the world.

The answers are:

1) Canadians have a reputation for being well educated by global standards. Most Canadians can tell you how many times the world goes around the sun in a year, and who we were fighting in the second world war, when up to 30% of people in some US states cannot. (For that matter, the most educated city is Calgary; lots of those guys driving around in pickups wearing baseball caps have at least bachelor's degrees.)

2) Other nation's leaders are amazed by the efficiency of our police.
 
Last edited:

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
There is no other way to carry it. Learned that in the service and have been doing it ever since. :)

Yeah.

The grip safety was not part of John Browning's original design, and some people (including me) have a real problem keeping the thing depressed while firing......

Another strike against adding complications to a good design.

I prefer the P-35 anyway.

Omicron.....a high tech registry is still a registry.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
Ever since I had my first firearm at age 8 ...a cooey 22 single shot Simpson sears special the serial number and description of that one went in a notebook I had.
The same afterwards for every firearm I ever owned, my firearms have been safely stored long before it became law...I dont need the government to tell me what to do.
Everything of value in my house is cataloged on a thumb drive in a safe place.
If I ever got a firearm stolen the cops wouldn't need to check the registry for the serial number.
When I go out of town for any length of time, any firearm I don't bring with me go to a friend's house for safekeeping.
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
3
38
Vancouver
Ever since I had my first firearm at age 8 ...a cooey 22 single shot Simpson sears special the serial number and description of that one went in a notebook I had.
The same afterwards for every firearm I ever owned, my firearms have been safely stored long before it became law...I dont need the government to tell me what to do.
Everything of value in my house is cataloged on a thumb drive in a safe place.
If I ever got a firearm stolen the cops wouldn't need to check the registry for the serial number.
When I go out of town for any length of time, any firearm I don't bring with me go to a friend's house for safekeeping.
Yeah, actually, that's kind'a how I am about mine. It freaks me out how sloppy some people are about their weapons... and they're always the one's shooting robins and road signs and have never got anything you buy a hunting license for.

Maybe it should just be that people owning firearms should be tested and licensed, like for driving.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Yeah, actually, that's kind'a how I am about mine. It freaks me out how sloppy some people are about their weapons... and they're always the one's shooting robins and road signs and have never got anything you buy a hunting license.
Got any stats.

My Grandfather kept his in an umbrella stand by the front door.

I can't even begin to imagine the number of Deer, Moose, Bear and other wild game the man fed a community with.

Maybe it should just be that people owning firearms should be tested and licensed, like for driving.
Maybe...

It's good to see you sober tonight. The past couple nights were humourously enlightening as the alcohol loosened your finger tips.
 
Last edited:

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
One word: degausser. It scrambles info chips like crazy and its even easier to do than getting rid of stamped serial numbers in metal. So stick all the chips you want into guns. You'll waste your time and money doing so.

If you look right under where the title "Findings and Recommendations" is, the first sentence in the first paragraph states unequivocably that there are 2 million Canadians owning 6.5 million long guns and 0.5 million handguns in Canada. That is straight nonsense. The latest estimate of firearms in Canada that I saw is almost double that. The bloody idiots that wrote that report didn't even have the sense to say "that we know of". So basically they are stating they know how many guns are in Canada and basing their findings on that ridiculous assumption. The report's a waste of trees.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
So... *sigh*... I hate hate hate the "political process", but it can't sit there the way it is.

I think a lot of us feel the same way: the lesser of the evils is to address a problem we don't want to have anything to do with, and thats politics.

...however I can see why cops like the registry, and I bet they're the first ones to see the potentially dangerous flaws in it, and my hunch is they're currently choosing not to seriously enforce the bad parts for no other reason than because they're not in a bad mood, so if we grant that it might be good for society as a whole to figure out a way to keep the parts that work, how should a registry work?

I think you hit on a big part of the issue: it is not and should not be the job of police officers to interpret the law. That is the purview of the courts. Police officers should have a pretty black and white set of boundaries to work in. I know its not always so in the real world but if we know something is fundamentally flawed then it is up to the politicians to scrap and (if necessary) rework it.

So, for starters, anybody got a problem with all legitimately owned weapons being chipped? It would be like a permanent license-plate drilled into the stock of old weapons, and embedded into the triggering mechanism or firing pin mechanism of new weapons.

You seem stuck on high tech solutions to this problem. What is "chipping" everything going to accomplish? A means of identification, sure but to what end? Its not going to stop firearms from being stolen and possibly used illegally. What will this cost people?

I'm not sold on the fact we need a registry or firearms as opposed to a registry/licensing of people who want to transport them off their own property (be it for hunting, trapping, target shooting, or anything else). What many pro-registry voices ignore is that with the gun control laws we had in this country prior to the registry, firearms were already not the weapon of choice for murderers (they were already below knives, blunt objects and several other categories) as they are not the weapon of choice today. I think our existing gun control laws have got us to (or even a fair stretch past) the point where the law of diminishing returns is truly evident: the benefit to society is incremental at best and miniscule compared to the benefit that would be obtained if the resources were invested in other areas of law enforcement.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Where would the chip be embedded - Would it be easily removed - Criminals are not all dumb - Another consideration is a ballistics record for each gun - but I thinh that this can be easilt scewed. Not sure.
I don't care where the chip would be, a simple degausser (you can build one at home or buy one in an electronics shop) would scramble any info on the chip. Or an EMP generator (also can be built at home). If not either of those, a radio frequency scrambler under a butt plate or somewhere would confuse the chip. Try to make a circuit board that can withstand severe pounding like explosive repercussion and install top quality parts that wouldn't be affected by them also. Your chip would likely be more expensive than the gun.
Good luck with that.

A ballistics record would be just as worthless because one can change ballistics in guns fairly easily.
 
Last edited:

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
Yeah, actually, that's kind'a how I am about mine. It freaks me out how sloppy some people are about their weapons... and they're always the one's shooting robins and road signs and have never got anything you buy a hunting license for.
The reason I locked my firearms were not to be orderly, it's because even though my kids were taught the danger of firearms, their friends who came to visit might not be, and I didn't feel like training the whole neighbourhood.
Maybe it should just be that people owning firearms should be tested and licensed, like for driving.
Everybody is, at least in Ontario......tested before you can get an FAC, then further tested before you get your first hunting licence
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Make the registry free.
Perfectly marvelous idea, but no politician or RCMP brass is likely to see the sense in it. Or even charge like a $50 for a one time fee to register everything a person has. Testing for fitness (psych and physical) before a license can be issued and the license includes carry for target, hunting, gunshows, whatever else so there's only 1 license to have. That way you'd drop 3/4 of the bloody moronic bureaucracy and paperwork. Criminals would still be scooting around with guns, but I doubt anything will ever stop that.

They have guns that will only recognize the owner, technology is around.

Owner Recognition By Portable Guns - Patent Application 20070209267
Again, the thing needs a chip to hold the data about grip pressures and the like. Fraz the chip. Seems to me RF chips need a power source, too. One can just fraz the power source.

Your prediction may well come true Goober but that just demonstrates the true stupidity of many Canadians: we demonstrate a lack of root cause identification and trouble shooting skills. We want "quick and easy" solutions (that don't exist) to complex problems.

As stated earlier, Marc Lepine's massacre umpteen years ago (15? 16?) was the catalyst for the current registry but would it have prevented him? Did it stop that kid (again in Montreal) from going essentially copy catting him a couple years ago? No. Did it stop the shootings in Toronto that had the press abuzz a few years ago? No.

I am going to point a finger here, particularly at Eastern Urbanites, namely those in Montreal and Toronto (but Vancouverites largely share the same mindset), who are stupid enough to believe this type of knee jerk addresses anything. They are the ones that have the political clout and lobbied the Liberals for this inane response. The Conservatives seem a little more immune to the pleas on some issues but they're not much better.
Yup.

Yeah, actually, that's kind'a how I am about mine. It freaks me out how sloppy some people are about their weapons... and they're always the one's shooting robins and road signs and have never got anything you buy a hunting license for.
I'm glad you said "some people".

Around here there's a loaded handgun near the back door and a loaded shotgun by the deck door. A loaded rifle leans against the door jamb just in case some food wanders by.

Wife's cousin has cattle. There's a rifle by the door there, too, with a couple rounds in it just for coyotes looking for a meal of veal or a grizzly looking for a steak.

You sound like a typical urbanite clueless about country life.

Maybe it should just be that people owning firearms should be tested and licensed, like for driving.
And maybe urbanites should be tested and licensed for chatting about stuff they haven't a clue about.

I think our existing gun control laws have got us to (or even a fair stretch past) the point where the law of diminishing returns is truly evident: the benefit to society is incremental at best and miniscule compared to the benefit that would be obtained if the resources were invested in other areas of law enforcement.
I'm of the same opinion.
 
Last edited:

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
L GilbertYou sound like a typical urbanite clueless about country life. .[/QUOTE said:
Like most of the assholes sitting in Ottawa- criminals don't register guns, and when guns become too much of a hassle, they will just switch to axes, bombs, you name it. :lol:
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Like most of the assholes sitting in Ottawa- criminals don't register guns, and when guns become too much of a hassle, they will just switch to axes, bombs, you name it. :lol:
Looks like the bill will die - The NDP carried the balance and now it appears that enough NDP members have changed their vote from for to against.

Layton - who we all know I dislike had good ideas but harper in his divide and conquer could not agree. After the next election Harper will retire. With or without knives in his back.

Jack Layton wins over enough New Democrats to save gun registry - The Globe and Mail

NDP Leader Jack Layton says he has persuaded “an overwhelming majority” of his rural caucus to vote next week to defeat a Conservative private member’s bill on the gun registry.
This means there should be enough votes next Wednesday to defeat the initiative of Tory MP Candice Hoeppner, whose private members bill, C-391, would end the long gun registry.
Mr. Layton made the announcement in Regina, where he is meeting with his NDP MPs in advance of the fall session of Parliament.
So far, only four of the 12 rural NDP MPs who had previously voted against the registry have announced they would switch their vote. Mr. Layton’s remarks suggest that at least three more will make similar announcements when they return to their ridings after the Regina caucus.

Good for you Jack.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Murder Rates in Canada (per 100,000 population)

2000 - 1.59

2001 - 1.67

2002 - 1.67 (Long gun registry complete Dec. 31)

2003 - 1.74

2004 - 1.95

2005 - 2.05

2006 - 1.86

2007 - 1.80

2008 - 1.83

(Source: Wikipedia, homicide rates by country)

The registry, obviously, is completely useless.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Murder Rates in Canada (per 100,000 population)

2000 - 1.59

2001 - 1.67

2002 - 1.67 (Long gun registry complete Dec. 31)

2003 - 1.74

2004 - 1.95

2005 - 2.05

2006 - 1.86

2007 - 1.80

2008 - 1.83

(Source: Wikipedia, homicide rates by country)

The registry, obviously, is completely useless.
And the RCMP used the Registry to concict 2 murderers for the murder of 4 RCMP Officers, Mayerthorpe - You do recall that.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
And the RCMP used the Registry to concict 2 murderers for the murder of 4 RCMP Officers, Mayerthorpe - You do recall that.

Excuse me?

The H&K 91 rifle the moron in Mayerthorpe used was a prohibited weapon. The 20 round magazine in it was a prohibited device. The firearm was not, and had never been registered.

The registration system saved no one.

The other guns he had were unregistered.....except for one, which had been reported stolen.

Explain to me again how the registry helped anyone in this????
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Murder Rates in Canada (per 100,000 population)

2000 - 1.59

2001 - 1.67

2002 - 1.67 (Long gun registry complete Dec. 31)

2003 - 1.74

2004 - 1.95

2005 - 2.05

2006 - 1.86

2007 - 1.80

2008 - 1.83

(Source: Wikipedia, homicide rates by country)

The registry, obviously, is completely useless.

Here's a more relevant chart:
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Excuse me?

The H&K 91 rifle the moron in Mayerthorpe used was a prohibited weapon. The 20 round magazine in it was a prohibited device. The firearm was not, and had never been registered.

The registration system saved no one.

The other guns he had were unregistered.....except for one, which had been reported stolen.

Explain to me again how the registry helped anyone in this????

The weapon used in the killings was traced back to the Grandfather - who stated it was stolen - Correct me if I am in error
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
The weapon used in the killings was traced back to the Grandfather - who stated it was stolen - Correct me if I am in error

You are incorrect.

The weapon used in the killings was a prohibited Heckler and Koch Model 91 battle rifle. The magazine it had in place is also a prohibited device.........from other sites I know they were smuggled in from the USA, along with a Beretta 9mm pistol. (I should say here that I know they were not registered, and I read somewhere they had originated in the USA, but I can not find the reference. As a convicted offender, Roszko could not have registered any guns, especially prohibited and restricted firearms) They had NEVER been registered in Canada.


Mayerthorpe incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The .300 Magnum rifle stolen from the grandfather had already been reported stolen.

Therefore the registry had absolutely NOTHING to do with the prosecution of any of the individuals involved.

It was, and remains, useless.
 
Last edited:

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
You are incorrect.

The weapon used in the killings was a prohibited Heckler and Koch Model 91 battle rifle. The magazine it had in place is also a prohibited device.........from other sites I know they were smuggled in from the USA, along with a Beretta 9mm pistol. (I should say here that I know they were not registered, and I read somewhere they had originated in the USA, but I can not find the reference. As a convicted offender, Roszko could not have registered any guns, especially prohibited and restricted firearms) They had NEVER been registered in Canada.


Mayerthorpe incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The .300 Magnum rifle stolen from the grandfather had already been reported stolen.

Therefore the registry had absolutely NOTHING to do with the prosecution of any of the individuals involved.

It was, and remains, useless.



Mayerthorpe Criminal Proceedings: Sentencing


  • On March 2nd, 2005, Alberta Baliffs set out to execute a warrant authorizing the seizure of a 2005 Ford Pick-up from James Roszko, at his farm outside of Mayerthorpe, Alberta;
  • Mr. Roszko departed his farm across a field, evading the seizure of the vehicle. Baliffs contacted the RCMP in Mayerthorpe for assistance, that ultimately resulted in the identification of an enclosed marihuana grow operation containing 280 plants, along with stolen automobile parts and truck frames;
  • Mr.Roszko made several calls to Shawn Hennessey’s work and home phone numbers which included a request for Hennessey to hide his truck at Hennessey’s residence;
  • Roszko later arrived at the Hennessey/Cheeseman residence, armed with a Luger handgun in his waist band, seeking a rifle that had been given to Hennessey by his grandfather;
  • Mr. Hennessey wiped down the rifle, and then handed the Winchester .300 Magnum rifle and a box of .300 Magnum ammunition over to Roszko;
  • Mr. Cheeseman provided Roszko with a pillow case, and some gloves from the basement of his residence, and placed the rifle in the pillow case. These articles were later seized as evidence at the scene of the four murders, along with a bed sheet, Bear Spray and a bottle of water;
  • During this extended period of time, Roszko was enraged at the RCMP. Both Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman knew that an armed confrontation with the RCMP was a real possibility;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman, then drove Roszko to the immediate area of his farm, where Roszko, Mr. Cheeseman and Mr. Hennessey could clearly see the lights from the police cars at the entrance to his Quonset. Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman were present, as Roszko pulled socks over his boots before proceeding off in the direction of the police, then armed with the Luger pistol in his waist band, and Mr. Hennessey’s Winchester high caliber rifle and ammo.
  • Mr. Cheeseman suggested calling the police to warn them about Roszko, but no call was ever placed by either Mr. Hennessey or Mr. Cheeseman;
  • After dropping off Roszko, later that morning Mr. Hennessey departed the company of his family and travelled to Edmonton for a work-related conference and Mr. Cheeseman headed off to work to engage a normal work day;
  • At approximately 10 o’clock, on March 3rd, 2005, Constables Gordon, Johnston, Myrol and Scheimann entered the Roszko Quonset, while Cpl.Vigor and Cst. Hoogestraat prepared to effect a comprehensive search for stolen automobile parts;
  • A well-armed Roszko ambushed and murdered four on-duty members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police inside the Quonset located on his property and attempted to murder Cpl. Stephen Vigor, who returned fire and struck Roszko twice before Roszko took his own life;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman learned of the murder of the four police officers and the death of Mr. Roszko, later in the day of March 3rd, 2005;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman did not contact police;
  • Shawn Hennessey and his mother Sandy Hennessey discussed the fact that the Winchester.300 Magnum rifle was registered to Shawn’s grandfather, John Hennessey. The senior Hennessey was quite sure that it was his own suggestion that they all “story” to the police the notion that the rifle had been stolen from the back of John Hennessey’s welding truck;
  • Shawn Hennessey and Dennis Cheeseman were approached by investigators on numerous occasions during the course of the 28 month investigation in order for them to tell police what they knew of the murders;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman were charged with First Degree Murder. The law clearly states that an individual who participates in the murder of a police officer, will be charged with First Degree murder, as opposed to the lesser charge of Second Degree murder. A Preliminary Hearing provided the courts with a portion of the evidence against the two accused that resulted in Mr. Cheeseman and Mr. Hennessey being bound over for trial on a charge of First Degree Murder;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman have pled guilty to a charge of Manslaughter on the evidence and information provided at the Preliminary Hearing.

Mayerthorpe Criminal Proceedings: Sentencing


  • On March 2nd, 2005, Alberta Baliffs set out to execute a warrant authorizing the seizure of a 2005 Ford Pick-up from James Roszko, at his farm outside of Mayerthorpe, Alberta;
  • Mr. Roszko departed his farm across a field, evading the seizure of the vehicle. Baliffs contacted the RCMP in Mayerthorpe for assistance, that ultimately resulted in the identification of an enclosed marihuana grow operation containing 280 plants, along with stolen automobile parts and truck frames;
  • Mr.Roszko made several calls to Shawn Hennessey’s work and home phone numbers which included a request for Hennessey to hide his truck at Hennessey’s residence;
  • Roszko later arrived at the Hennessey/Cheeseman residence, armed with a Luger handgun in his waist band, seeking a rifle that had been given to Hennessey by his grandfather;
  • Mr. Hennessey wiped down the rifle, and then handed the Winchester .300 Magnum rifle and a box of .300 Magnum ammunition over to Roszko;
  • Mr. Cheeseman provided Roszko with a pillow case, and some gloves from the basement of his residence, and placed the rifle in the pillow case. These articles were later seized as evidence at the scene of the four murders, along with a bed sheet, Bear Spray and a bottle of water;
  • During this extended period of time, Roszko was enraged at the RCMP. Both Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman knew that an armed confrontation with the RCMP was a real possibility;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman, then drove Roszko to the immediate area of his farm, where Roszko, Mr. Cheeseman and Mr. Hennessey could clearly see the lights from the police cars at the entrance to his Quonset. Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman were present, as Roszko pulled socks over his boots before proceeding off in the direction of the police, then armed with the Luger pistol in his waist band, and Mr. Hennessey’s Winchester high caliber rifle and ammo.
  • Mr. Cheeseman suggested calling the police to warn them about Roszko, but no call was ever placed by either Mr. Hennessey or Mr. Cheeseman;
  • After dropping off Roszko, later that morning Mr. Hennessey departed the company of his family and travelled to Edmonton for a work-related conference and Mr. Cheeseman headed off to work to engage a normal work day;
  • At approximately 10 o’clock, on March 3rd, 2005, Constables Gordon, Johnston, Myrol and Scheimann entered the Roszko Quonset, while Cpl.Vigor and Cst. Hoogestraat prepared to effect a comprehensive search for stolen automobile parts;
  • A well-armed Roszko ambushed and murdered four on-duty members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police inside the Quonset located on his property and attempted to murder Cpl. Stephen Vigor, who returned fire and struck Roszko twice before Roszko took his own life;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman learned of the murder of the four police officers and the death of Mr. Roszko, later in the day of March 3rd, 2005;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman did not contact police;
  • Shawn Hennessey and his mother Sandy Hennessey discussed the fact that the Winchester.300 Magnum rifle was registered to Shawn’s grandfather, John Hennessey. The senior Hennessey was quite sure that it was his own suggestion that they all “story” to the police the notion that the rifle had been stolen from the back of John Hennessey’s welding truck;
  • Shawn Hennessey and Dennis Cheeseman were approached by investigators on numerous occasions during the course of the 28 month investigation in order for them to tell police what they knew of the murders;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman were charged with First Degree Murder. The law clearly states that an individual who participates in the murder of a police officer, will be charged with First Degree murder, as opposed to the lesser charge of Second Degree murder. A Preliminary Hearing provided the courts with a portion of the evidence against the two accused that resulted in Mr. Cheeseman and Mr. Hennessey being bound over for trial on a charge of First Degree Murder;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman have pled guilty to a charge of Manslaughter on the evidence and information provided at the Preliminary Hearing.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/573516

They drove home.
By 10 a.m. auto theft investigators Steve Vigor and Garry Hoogestraat had arrived and it was time to enter the Quonset again. The four Mounties went in first. Second later, Vigor and Hoogestraat heard "a quick succession of bangs and screams."
Roszko then burst out of the doorway, brandishing a semi-automatic .308 Heckler and Koch assault rifle.
He was shocked to see more police. He fired at Vigor, missing him by inches. Vigor fired back and hit Roszko once in the hand and once in the thigh. Roszko retreated back into the hut and a four-hour standoff began. Police could not reach the four officers on radio.
They brought in a camera-toting search robot and an emergency response team and by 2 p.m. had learned the terrible truth.
Hennessey, meanwhile, was driving home from a business meeting in Edmonton when he heard the news on the radio: four Mounties down.
His thoughts went to the Winchester. He talked to his mother and grandfather, John Hennessey. He knew police could trace the gun and that soon they would be coming after him. At John's suggestion, they concocted a plan to say the gun had been stolen earlier from John's welding truck.
Cheeseman had already gone home early from his job at Sepallo Food Ingredients. He claimed a family emergency, but in reality there was no emergency. He'd also heard the news.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Mayerthorpe Criminal Proceedings: Sentencing


  • On March 2nd, 2005, Alberta Baliffs set out to execute a warrant authorizing the seizure of a 2005 Ford Pick-up from James Roszko, at his farm outside of Mayerthorpe, Alberta;
  • Mr. Roszko departed his farm across a field, evading the seizure of the vehicle. Baliffs contacted the RCMP in Mayerthorpe for assistance, that ultimately resulted in the identification of an enclosed marihuana grow operation containing 280 plants, along with stolen automobile parts and truck frames;
  • Mr.Roszko made several calls to Shawn Hennessey’s work and home phone numbers which included a request for Hennessey to hide his truck at Hennessey’s residence;
  • Roszko later arrived at the Hennessey/Cheeseman residence, armed with a Luger handgun in his waist band, seeking a rifle that had been given to Hennessey by his grandfather;
  • Mr. Hennessey wiped down the rifle, and then handed the Winchester .300 Magnum rifle and a box of .300 Magnum ammunition over to Roszko;
  • Mr. Cheeseman provided Roszko with a pillow case, and some gloves from the basement of his residence, and placed the rifle in the pillow case. These articles were later seized as evidence at the scene of the four murders, along with a bed sheet, Bear Spray and a bottle of water;
  • During this extended period of time, Roszko was enraged at the RCMP. Both Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman knew that an armed confrontation with the RCMP was a real possibility;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman, then drove Roszko to the immediate area of his farm, where Roszko, Mr. Cheeseman and Mr. Hennessey could clearly see the lights from the police cars at the entrance to his Quonset. Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman were present, as Roszko pulled socks over his boots before proceeding off in the direction of the police, then armed with the Luger pistol in his waist band, and Mr. Hennessey’s Winchester high caliber rifle and ammo.
  • Mr. Cheeseman suggested calling the police to warn them about Roszko, but no call was ever placed by either Mr. Hennessey or Mr. Cheeseman;
  • After dropping off Roszko, later that morning Mr. Hennessey departed the company of his family and travelled to Edmonton for a work-related conference and Mr. Cheeseman headed off to work to engage a normal work day;
  • At approximately 10 o’clock, on March 3rd, 2005, Constables Gordon, Johnston, Myrol and Scheimann entered the Roszko Quonset, while Cpl.Vigor and Cst. Hoogestraat prepared to effect a comprehensive search for stolen automobile parts;
  • A well-armed Roszko ambushed and murdered four on-duty members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police inside the Quonset located on his property and attempted to murder Cpl. Stephen Vigor, who returned fire and struck Roszko twice before Roszko took his own life;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman learned of the murder of the four police officers and the death of Mr. Roszko, later in the day of March 3rd, 2005;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman did not contact police;
  • Shawn Hennessey and his mother Sandy Hennessey discussed the fact that the Winchester.300 Magnum rifle was registered to Shawn’s grandfather, John Hennessey. The senior Hennessey was quite sure that it was his own suggestion that they all “story” to the police the notion that the rifle had been stolen from the back of John Hennessey’s welding truck;
  • Shawn Hennessey and Dennis Cheeseman were approached by investigators on numerous occasions during the course of the 28 month investigation in order for them to tell police what they knew of the murders;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman were charged with First Degree Murder. The law clearly states that an individual who participates in the murder of a police officer, will be charged with First Degree murder, as opposed to the lesser charge of Second Degree murder. A Preliminary Hearing provided the courts with a portion of the evidence against the two accused that resulted in Mr. Cheeseman and Mr. Hennessey being bound over for trial on a charge of First Degree Murder;
  • Mr. Hennessey and Mr. Cheeseman have pled guilty to a charge of Manslaughter on the evidence and information provided at the Preliminary Hearing.



Crown seeks 10-15 years for Mountie killer's helpers - thestar.com

They drove home.
By 10 a.m. auto theft investigators Steve Vigor and Garry Hoogestraat had arrived and it was time to enter the Quonset again. The four Mounties went in first. Second later, Vigor and Hoogestraat heard "a quick succession of bangs and screams."
Roszko then burst out of the doorway, brandishing a semi-automatic .308 Heckler and Koch assault rifle.
He was shocked to see more police. He fired at Vigor, missing him by inches. Vigor fired back and hit Roszko once in the hand and once in the thigh. Roszko retreated back into the hut and a four-hour standoff began. Police could not reach the four officers on radio.
They brought in a camera-toting search robot and an emergency response team and by 2 p.m. had learned the terrible truth.
Hennessey, meanwhile, was driving home from a business meeting in Edmonton when he heard the news on the radio: four Mounties down.
His thoughts went to the Winchester. He talked to his mother and grandfather, John Hennessey. He knew police could trace the gun and that soon they would be coming after him. At John's suggestion, they concocted a plan to say the gun had been stolen earlier from John's welding truck.
Cheeseman had already gone home early from his job at Sepallo Food Ingredients. He claimed a family emergency, but in reality there was no emergency. He'd also heard the news.

The piece I saw stated the .300 had been stolen 4 months before.........which makes more sense to me, as it was illegally possessed by Henessey, as he was not the person it was registered to........

Unless Henessey had a firearms license, which I doubt.

And it was not used in the murders.........

Once again, the registry was useless. The .300 had no bearing on the murder of the Mounties.....it would have happened anyway, as Rozsko used the unregistered H&K rifle, NOT the .300....as for Henessey and Cheeseman, their convictions rested on the fact they aided Roszko in his return to the farm, knowing he was armed and outraged at the RCMP.

The registry had no bearing, before or after.

And the first article misidentifies a Beretta 9mm as a "Luger".