Long Gun Registry -Yes- No
- Thread starter Goober
- Start date
The people who say THAT are the ones that don't understand how statistics are manipulated.
Somewhere in the forum is an excellent article on how Stats Can stats were used to show erroneous numbers for deaths caused by smoking. Stats that included someone lighting a cigarette and losing control of there car, hitting a pedestrian, and killing him.
Ya, people who don't know stats are manipulated, don't understands stats alright.
I like this little tidbit too...
Misuse of statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
People are so confused about how stats are manipulated, that there's even a wikiality page dedicated to it...
But it doesn't happen.
Here, listen to this while you read that wikiality page...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyjvlvRZrz8&feature=player_embedded
I can relate to Lance Thomas.
Misuse of statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
People are so confused about how stats are manipulated, that there's even a wikiality page dedicated to it...
But it doesn't happen.
Here, listen to this while you read that wikiality page...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyjvlvRZrz8&feature=player_embedded
I can relate to Lance Thomas.
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Wonderful stuff Bear....now if every shopkeeper behaved like Mr. Thomas, robbery would be a thing of the past.......
Bear. Colpy - How many people are out there with Long Guns that are unstable - I know of a few.
If people would just a grip on how statistics works, they wouldn't get fooled by others deliberately misusing them.
It's like asking, who's more to blame for the damage done to general well-being when people like Mulroney or Harper get into power? Him and his big-business puppet-masters, or voters with such a non-existent understanding of how macro-economics works to see how their policies are designed to pull money out of the hands of the many into the hands of a few?
It never seizes to amaze me how the people most likely to be hurt by conservative policies (small business and family farmers) are also the people most likely to vote for them.
Do you know what this graph is showing?
It is not showing the suicide rate in Canada, it is showing a google timeline result, which looks at the dates of news articles, and other publications which contain the words used in the search, and compiles them by date. The histogram you end up with is a result that shows how popular certain words are in documents available to the google spiders.
As an example, check this one out:
It's a google timeline result for "smallpox rate Canada history".
Smallpox does not exist anymore, eradicated by 1979. Obviously the spike in the histogram in 2002 is not the highest recorded rate of small pox in Canada.
If you want to see what the suicide rate in Canada looks like, follow this link:
http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/en/293.pdf
Not really. He just did what Clinton did, which was stop the decline and hold things at that level while the middle-class got used to its new lower-level, but he and Clinton never reversed anything.
Yay :hello1: Finally. Someone who gets it.
Sorry if that's too much of an ad-hominum reaction. It's just that I never found stuff like linear regression or Chi squares or factor analysis very hard toget a grip on, but to be fair, I do recall how those used to twist the brains of some classmates right out of shape, such that they ended up hating statistics, without seeing what power of insight it enables when used correctly.
In particular, I couldn't *believe* what can be learned about a situation from orthogonal factor analysis using the technique for finding what they call the "hidden effects".
I wonder how many people know that if you're a statistician, there's a healthy little sideline in taking the data that other people have applied false statistical tests to in order to create a lie, and running that data through tests that are valid, in order to see what the data is *really* saying.
Anyway, back to the topic of the thread... the long gun registry...
What do people think about the idea of being able to tag each gun with a RFID chip that identifies each gun uniquely (model, make, year of manufacture) which then gets recorded in a database that contains extra information recording who the current owner is.
I like the idea because, among other things, it means I can get my weapons back if stolen, and it simplifies things a bit for the cops, in that if they find an un-chipped weapons (after a proper period of time for people to get their weapons chipped), they can confiscate it without question. which they can effectively do *now*, with or without a registry, which means with a chip-identification, it can put some breaks on the cops' authority to confiscate guns.
Is that still too Big-Brother?
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Where would the chip be embedded - Would it be easily removed - Criminals are not all dumb - Another consideration is a ballistics record for each gun - but I thinh that this can be easilt scewed. Not sure.
I always loved the comment about car accidents, 'speed was a factor'. Duh. Speed is always a factor in an accident. If your speed is zero, that could also be a factor. Possibly the most ridiculous thing ever said about accidents.
Nowadays they often say 'excessive speed', which at least makes sense.
dont let something like this take you guns and/or make you a crimminal...................
http://www.nogw.com/download/_07_port_arthur_massacre.pdf
http://www.nogw.com/download/_07_port_arthur_massacre.pdf
While gunlaws should make a country a safer place to live, in reality they are a move against the freedom and self-defence of the people.
THOMAS JEFFERSON
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government".
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government".
1-----Nazi Germany established gun control in 1938 enabling the government to round up 13 million defenceless Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill and impaired human beings, imprisoning them in concentration camps, and by a conscious process of attrition, destroyed them.
2-----The Turkish Ottoman Empire established gun control in 1911, proceeding then to exterminate 1.5 million Armenians from 1914 - 1917.
2-----The Turkish Ottoman Empire established gun control in 1911, proceeding then to exterminate 1.5 million Armenians from 1914 - 1917.
Stretch - As we are all well aware the world is filled with wackos - In Canada if the Gun Registry is defeated and we have another massacre, then look to Iggy the idiot as our next PM. God help us - Haprer is a control freak and Iggy is an idiot - We are lost.
For what - Make the registry free - make it so people know their guns will not be confiscated - make it so Dr's who know someone is on or over the edge cannot hold weapons by notifying the Police.
Call it what you will - Call it how society is evolving - Call it a sane law in my opinion.
And anyone with a lick of sense knows what another massacre will cause.
I'm not sure where it should be embedded.
If it was done at manufacture time, there should be ways to embed it in the trigger or firing-pin mechanism in a way that would make it as difficult as possible to remove it without breaking the gun.
If on an existing weapon, I can't think of any way to embed the chip that a crook wouldn't be able to dig out, so it would mostly amount to being the equivalent of a permanent license-plate that can change owners where if it's been dug out, the cops can more-or-less safely presume the gun is in the hands of a criminal.
I'm just looking at it as a way to provide the cops with the aspect of the registry that they say helps with enforcement, without it being a pain to gun owners.
Hmm... yeah... although a ballistics record as part of the info is a good idea.
I just think it would be easier for everyone if you're out hunting or your home is being searched, for them to be able to do a quick swipe and know immediately that the gun in your possession is legit, plus if a weapon gets stolen by punks who just want to take it on a sign-post shooting joyride until they run out of ammo before chucking it, if the weapon gets found, it can be returned to the rightful owner.
I do not know much about chip technology but i am sure that it can be burnt out by elec current and or radios waves. Basic overload - But as i state i do not know for sure.
Oh, you mean like if the legitimate owner walks too close to a power line, that it might scrub the chip?
Remember how during the Cold War people worried about Electro-Magnetic Pulses generated by high-altitude explosions of fusion bombs disabling electronics?
At the time that would have been a problem for anything fero-magnetic, like an alternator, and anything using chip-technology of the day.
Well, that would still be a problem for fero-magnetic devices today, but they solved that problem for chips, so that wouldn't be a problem with today's RFID's.
(It was solved by a collaboration between Sandia National Labs in the US and testing facilities found only in Canada, in case you're curious.)
but, their guns WILL be confiscated, thats the whole friggen idea of it. this isnt coming from your government, they are the puppets in all this......
Of course you did. How the heck else would you have learned? Dang I wish people in my part of the country would do that more. Albertans were so much better about being inquisitive when they didn't understand something, whereas in my current province, if people don't get you, they just smile back with glassy eyes and pretend they do, and it's only much later after you've made investments that you find out they never had a *clue* what the whole concept was about. (For some reason they're afraid to admit they didn't get something the first time, as if someone's going to bite them, no matter how many times they shoot themselves in the foot later on for having pretended to understand.)
Plus it's not like it's information that's been widely announced.
Like all military technology, it was classified until the enemy figured out how to do the same thing, whereupon it's declassified so the marketplace can go wild with it, but commercial device manufacturers weren't exactly crazy about it because it costs a bit more (about 30% more per chip) plus it's from having appliances with easily fried chips that makes for more people doing things to break what they've bought so they have to throw it away and buy a new one...
But yeah... the technology for EMP resistant RFID chips is in the public domain, and even at 30% more per chip, they're still cheep when produced in bulk.
That's what I'm thinking.
There's probably a few i's to dot and t's to cross, but I think it would be much simpler and more common-sensible in order to give the RCMP the parts of registration they say helps them do their job, without being too intrusive on individual rights, and with the benefit of upping the odds of getting a lost or stolen weapon back.
I'm thinking something like if you've already registered, then you just go in and they install the chip and enter just a bit of information in a database for no charge. For everyone else, the registration fees should be cut to what the actual cost would be. The way people talk, it sounds like some price gouging has been happening with the current registration system.
After that, it's just a license plate that stays with the weapon, and a registration system that only tracks who the current owner is. If cops detain someone with an un-chipped weapon, then that will give them their "just cause" to presume they could be dealing with a criminal and to therefore seize the weapon immediately (with a process for getting it back if it was just a guy who didn't get the gun chipped), and the weapon can be returned to the rightful owner if it was lost or stolen.
And although crooks might learn how to dig the chips out, one thing they're never going to have the ability to do unless they're an enemy government is replace the chips with counterfeit RFIDs, and even then the odds of the hash-code they burn into the RFID matching the type of weapon the registration database says is associated with that number is so idiotically astronomical* that even an enemy government isn't going to be able to fake it unless they've infiltrated agents gaining access to the database.
* How astronomical? On the order of imagine the number of atoms in the universe (1x10^77). Now imagine that for each atom in the universe, there's another universe with that many atoms (1x10^154). Now imagine that for each atom into those universes there's a universe with that many atoms (1x10^308... now imagine you keep doing that until you get up to 1x10^1024.
Not big enough for you? Okay, let's make it 1x10^2048. Still not big enough? Fine, let's go all the way to each unique registration number requiring enough bits to encode a number with 1x10^4096 decimal digits.
How much room does that require on a chip? Got a microscope? You might be able to pick it out as a little spec-like squiggle on the chip with a powerful magnifying glass.
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