Latest poll on Capital punishment

[SirJosephPorter]

OK, let us look at it one by one.

They would need to meet specific criteria, sample;..video taped,

In these days of computer graphics, vidoes can easily be faked.

caught in the act,

By whom? If somebody says he caught the accused in the act, how do you know he is not lying?

admitted guilt with demonstrable inside infomation, written confessions,

Guilt admission, written confessions can be beaten out of somebody. Mentally unstable person sometimes confesses to the crime he did not commit.

own blood all over the victims etc.

Blood can be planted. Now, don't get me wrong. What you are saying constitutes overwhelming evidence, shows probable guilt on the part of the accused. I would even say it proves guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

But in view of the (minor) uncertainties involved, would you say that it shows guilt beyond any doubt? That is a very high standard to achieve.

 

[JLM]

No it is not. Show me the poll where it says 62%. News report on a TV station does not mean a whole lot, it is easy to misspeak and not even know that you have misspoken.

Show me the poll, I don't think one exists. That would to totally contrary to what we know about Canadian attitude towards death penalty, a majority are opposed to it. CBC report was probably referring to the CBC poll which I mentioned (which said only 40% Canadians want to bring back the death penalty). Very likely the reporter misspoke.

Yes it was. It wasn't on T.V. It was on CBC radio on Sunday morning and I doubt if he misspoke, he said it twice.

 

[JLM]

OK, let us look at it one by one.



In these days of computer graphics, vidoes can easily be faked.


By whom? If somebody says he caught the accused in the act, how do you know he is not lying?

Guilt admission, written confessions can be beaten out of somebody. Mentally unstable person sometimes confesses to the crime he did not commit.

Blood can be planted. Now, don't get me wrong. What you are saying constitutes overwhelming evidence, shows probable guilt on the part of the accused. I would even say it proves guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

But in view of the (minor) uncertainties involved, would you say that it shows guilt beyond any doubt? That is a very high standard to achieve.

You are grasping at straws, you should give it up. If the suspect was seen doing the crime, was picked up on a camera, had the victims blood on him and his blood was on the victim- he's GUILTY.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Yes it was. It wasn't on T.V. It was on CBC radio on Sunday morning and I doubt if he misspoke, he said it twice.

Radio, TV it is the same. Very likely he misspoke. That is why there isn't any poll showing that 62% Canadians support death penalty. Or maybe you misinterpreted what he was saying. It is absurd on the face of it. The CBC poll is more sensible, it tells us what we already know. That a majority of Canadians don't want to bring back the death penalty, don't want to dig up the dead issue.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You are grasping at straws, you should give it up. If the suspect was seen doing the crime, was picked up on a camera, had the victims blood on him and his blood was on the victim- he's GUILTY.

Nobody is grasping at straws. These are the type of arguments defense lawyers will make if the standard was guilty beyond any doubt. Throw in death penalty for guilty beyond any doubt (as Kreskin suggests) and that will be like red rag to the bull. Civil liberties lawyers will have a field day with such a standard. The arguments I presented will probably be very like something advanced in the courts.

 

[lone wolf]

Nobody is grasping at straws. These are the type of arguments defense lawyers will make if the standard was guilty beyond any doubt. Throw in death penalty for guilty beyond any doubt (as Kreskin suggests) and that will be like red rag to the bull. Civil liberties lawyers will have a field day with such a standard. The arguments I presented will probably be very like something advanced in the courts.

Civil liberties (rights?) lawyers can only defend rights. Arrest means many of those have been surrendered. Conviction means many more. No call for a vulture ... er ... lawyer

 

[JLM]

" Or maybe you misinterpreted what he was saying."

YOu are not listening. How do you misinterpret "62% of Canadians favour capital punishement" , expecially when it was said at least twice?

 

[TenPenny]

How about the Globe and Mail, then?
'This hardening attitude among Canadians is revealed in a new Angus Reid public opinion survey that found 62 per cent of respondents favour capital punishment for murderers, while 31 per cent believe that rapists should be put to death. '

Canadians' views on crime are hardening, poll finds - The Globe and Mail

 

[lone wolf]

How about the Globe and Mail, then?
'This hardening attitude among Canadians is revealed in a new Angus Reid public opinion survey that found 62 per cent of respondents favour capital punishment for murderers, while 31 per cent believe that rapists should be put to death. '

Canadians' views on crime are hardening, poll finds - The Globe and Mail

Surely the Globe and Mail MUST be wrong. Porter never is....

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[AnnaG]

How about the Globe and Mail, then?
'This hardening attitude among Canadians is revealed in a new Angus Reid public opinion survey that found 62 per cent of respondents favour capital punishment for murderers, while 31 per cent believe that rapists should be put to death. '

Canadians' views on crime are hardening, poll finds - The Globe and Mail

It seems to differ with the real "latest" poll:

CBC News - Canada - Canadians split on pot, death penalty: poll

Forty-six per cent do not support the reintroduction of capital punishment while 40 per cent do. Another 14 per cent said they had no opinion.

 

[JLM]

Attention Sir Joseph Porter REOE (resident expert on everything)

I've copied some of the text re the poll I was trying to tell you about

"A nation that has traditionally thought of itself as liberal and forgiving is adopting a hard line on crime and punishment – including the death penalty.
This hardening attitude among Canadians is revealed in a new Angus Reid public opinion survey that found 62 per cent of respondents favour capital punishment for murderers, while 31 per cent believe that rapists should be put to death.
The figure is a significant boost from the last such survey, in 2004, when 48 per cent favoured capital punishment for murderers."

Now maybe you will take a break from your arrogant, know it all attitude

 

[wulfie68]

Its interesting that EKOS is at this much variance with Angus Reid with almost identically worded questions (my first thought was that the questions must have had some wiggle room in them.

Ekos - To what extent do you agree/disagree with the following statement: I would support the reintroduction of capital punishment. (40% in March 2010 vs 43% in June 2000)

Angus Reid - Would you support punishing homicide with the death penalty? (62% in favour in autumn 2009)

There's a subtle shift in the question, if you take Ekos as meaning to start parliamentary proceedings to reinstate it vs Reid's outright usage but there's not a lot of room to hide in either wording, as to where one stands on the issue.

I can't see a 22% drop in a matter of months, especially without another Milgaard type case in the headlines to spur it on. They're both reputable pollsters, but I have more faith in Angus Reid if forced to choose between them.

 

[AnnaG]

I don't trust polls: people can change their opinion in the blink of an eye, not everyone is truthful to pollsters, etc.

 

[JLM]

I don't trust polls: people can change their opinion in the blink of an eye, not everyone is truthful to pollsters, etc.

I agree with you 100% but the resident expert insists they form an accurate part of statistics, so we'll for the time being I'm willing to go along with him (I love the way he starts to hedge and waver when they gon't come out as he thinks they should.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Its interesting that EKOS is at this much variance with Angus Reid with almost identically worded questions (my first thought was that the questions must have had some wiggle room in them.

Ekos - To what extent do you agree/disagree with the following statement: I would support the reintroduction of capital punishment. (40% in March 2010 vs 43% in June 2000)

Angus Reid - Would you support punishing homicide with the death penalty? (62% in favour in autumn 2009)

There's a subtle shift in the question, if you take Ekos as meaning to start parliamentary proceedings to reinstate it vs Reid's outright usage but there's not a lot of room to hide in either wording, as to where one stands on the issue.

I can't see a 22% drop in a matter of months, especially without another Milgaard type case in the headlines to spur it on. They're both reputable pollsters, but I have more faith in Angus Reid if forced to choose between them.

Quite so, Wulfie. That is why one should not trust any one poll; there really should be a group of polls. If they show a similar trend, then there may be something to it. They do the same thing during election, there are several polls.

During last election, CNN used to report poll of polls and that turned out to be remarkably accurate in predicting the election results.

So far the polls have consistently shown that majority of Canadians are opposed to death penalty. Angus Reid poll is at variance with other polls, so it must be regarded as suspect. Ekos poll is in line with other polls, that should be regarded as the accurate one.

Now, if we have three or four more polls and they agree with Angus Reid, then we could say that yes, majority of Canadian indeed do support death penalty.

But one must be caution of a rogue poll, one which is at odd with several other polls.

There is a slight chance that the explanation you gave may be the correct one. Canadians support death penalty (Angus Reid), but now that we don’t have it, they don’t want it reintroduced in Canada (Ekos). But I don’t believe that.

 

[lone wolf]

Which ONE did you cherry-pick, Squidly? With that much of a variation ... your number is screwed.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I agree with you 100% but the resident expert insists they form an accurate part of statistics, so we'll for the time being I'm willing to go along with him (I love the way he starts to hedge and waver when they gon't come out as he thinks they should.

The polls do tell us something, JLM. The question is what do they tell us. There is inherent uncertainty in any statistical, random sample poll. They usually say that the poll is accurate within say, 3%, 19 times out of 20. This may be that 20th time for the Angus Reid poll. Unless three or four more polls support Angus Reid, I wouldn't trust that poll, seeing that it is so much at variance with other polls.

 

[JLM]

Which ONE did you cherry-pick, Squidly? With that much of a variation ... your number is screwed.

Whichever poll comes closest to showing everyone in the world (with the exception of course of Right wing religious nuts) is totally and irrevocably against it. :smile:

 

[TenPenny]

Its interesting that EKOS is at this much variance with Angus Reid with almost identically worded questions (my first thought was that the questions must have had some wiggle room in them.

Ekos - To what extent do you agree/disagree with the following statement: I would support the reintroduction of capital punishment. (40% in March 2010 vs 43% in June 2000)

Angus Reid - Would you support punishing homicide with the death penalty? (62% in favour in autumn 2009)

There's a subtle shift in the question, if you take Ekos as meaning to start parliamentary proceedings to reinstate it vs Reid's outright usage but there's not a lot of room to hide in either wording, as to where one stands on the issue.

I can't see a 22% drop in a matter of months, especially without another Milgaard type case in the headlines to spur it on. They're both reputable pollsters, but I have more faith in Angus Reid if forced to choose between them.

That's not a subtle shift in the question, it's a different question.

 

[Kreskin]

OK, let us look at it one by one.



In these days of computer graphics, vidoes can easily be faked.


By whom? If somebody says he caught the accused in the act, how do you know he is not lying?

Guilt admission, written confessions can be beaten out of somebody. Mentally unstable person sometimes confesses to the crime he did not commit.

Blood can be planted. Now, don't get me wrong. What you are saying constitutes overwhelming evidence, shows probable guilt on the part of the accused. I would even say it proves guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

But in view of the (minor) uncertainties involved, would you say that it shows guilt beyond any doubt? That is a very high standard to achieve.

Yes, a very high standard to achieve, which would be my intent. One that Olsen has achieved.