Israeli soldiers captured in Lebanon, not Israel!

[Freethinker]

And what does this have to do with the topic of the thread?


Once again Freethinker {sic} objects to the TRUTH. Please note that, as always, he objects to its revelation but offers nothing in the way of rebuttal for its truth. Instead, he projects his hatred for Muslims by accusing me of hating Jews (this despite my past disclosure of being of Jewish descent). If Freethinker {sic} would open his eyes, mind, and heart he would see the errors of his ways and learn that it is Israel that is the evil aggressor in this conflict. All of my posts clearly and unequivocally prove my point. His failure to offer even a semblance of rational counterpoint makes that incontrovertible.

The thread is about who about where the abduction took place. Your counterpoint was that Israel tortures children. This is a logical falacy known as a Non Sequitur.

9 out of 10 times your answer to everything is: But Israel is evil, see this link, Israel being evil....

That is not a logical argument, but a deflection from the current discussion.

Your comments border on the incomprehensible, like your comments that I project Muslim hatred, by accusing you hating Israel. That is insane. I don't go around saying evil muslim this, evil muslim that. Your every post, including this one. Refers to Israel as evil. It is clear to everyone that you do in fact hate Israel. A hate that seems so deep that I can't imagine you come by other than first hand experience, such as growing up in Gaza.

Whatever the cause, it is clear you have a deep hatred that is consuming you.

 

[#juan]

The burnt out Israeli tank is still in Lebanon

I'll bet those dirty Hezbolla guys dragged that tank in there so everyone would think that the Israelis were in Lebanon. Yeah, that's it.

 

[mabudon]

RE: Israeli soldiers capt

Okay, now FT is going for the patronizing approach to discredit others...

So back on topic, it appears that the arrests DID in fact take place in LEbanon, after a poorly executed cross-border skirmish which led to an Israeli tank pursuing those responsible across the border.. so it appears more of a case of 2 wrongs, and we all know what they combine to form

 

[Freethinker]

The burnt out Israeli tank is still in Lebanon

I'll bet those dirty Hezbolla guys dragged that tank in there so everyone would think that the Israelis were in Lebanon. Yeah, that's it.

If you read a complete account even on the first day, Hezbollah used a rocket/rpg attack on two patrolling Humvees, where they originally killed and captured some Israelis in the cross border raid. An Israeli tank run over a mine in Lebanese territory giving chase of the captors. It was a several hundred KG explosive. The entire tank crew was killed.

Here are the actual details of what happened. While this is an Israeli paper, it is what was initially reported the very first day everywhere including on Aljazeera. Though you are only going to get this level of detail from Israel, because it was their patrol.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738723.html

It was only days later when a Syrian analyst made claims that Israel inside Lebanon when the kidnappings happened, that anti Israel bloggers started to pick up this story.

Hezbollah did this kind of kidnapping in 2000 and has tried several times since.

The after the facts story about Israel being Lebanon now being passed around lacks any credability.

Again Quoting Aljazeera, who you can't think is biased in Israels favor:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/35772526-C1A8-4599-868C-E513C4F29C9B.htm

Hezbollah fighters seize two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. Three Israeli soldiers are also killed in the attack.

It says it will release them if Israel frees Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.

"Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance ... captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine," a Hezbollah statement said.


So Aljazeera says cross border raid. Hezbollah own statement says at the border with occupied Palestine, not in south Lebanon.

But days later a Syrian starts a story that it was in south Lebanon, contradicting even Hezbollahs own statement.

Largely ignored by most, but the anti-Israeli contingent are quick to pounce. Credability of sources doesn't matter, fitting the facts doesn't matter. What matters is it paints Israel negatively so it must be true.

Sadly this seems to be the thought process here.

 

[EastSideScotian]

RE: Israeli soldiers capt

This is the Funneist shit I have read since Aeon has been Canned.

So I guess whatreallyhappend.com forgot about Hezbollah claiming it a raid into Isreali Land to capture soldiers by digging a hole.....

Some of you peole are simply hair brained, Lets beleave what we are told by anti-con morons who donthave their facts straight and just want to have a Leftist Government by any means, even if it is spilling piles of ass chesse all over the Internet.

What does this False artical even try to do? Make it seem like the Isrealis are just trying to star a war again? Isreal is the only COuntry to ever try and give the Islamic countrys in the area the Benifit of the doubt and try to put a good foot forward int he name of peace. If they wanted to fight all the time they would not of withdrawn from Gaza, or Lebadon....

No one around here seems to have their Facts correct, and then they read stupid threads liket is, and it just fucks their opinions up completly because they take it for what really happend, when infact its just some stupid ass anti-zionist tryingt o ralley idiots over to their side, It seems to be working....but whatever, They can take the Idiots.

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Israeli soldiers capt

So I guess whatreallyhappend.com forgot about Hezbollah claiming it a raid into Isreali Land to capture soldiers by digging a hole.....

gah

that was Hamas from the Gaza :roll:

"At 09.05 this morning, the Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers near the border with occupied Palestine, and the captives have been moved to a safe area." - Hezbollah via the Associated Press

Some of you peole are simply hair brained,...

whatever

 

[gopher]

RE: Israeli soldiers capt

"Whatever the cause, it is clear you have a deep hatred that is consuming you."


More self projections. Ah well, he's hopeless.

The only thing that is consuming me is the love of truth - something you seem determined to avoid. But, as in Hitler's time, it will win out in the end and defeat the forces of evil.

 

[gopher]

RE: Israeli soldiers capt

"Do you have a BBC link"

No, I was quoting from a BBC television report. Sorry if I did not make that clear.

 

[cmar]

hmm this is all very interesting.

first up freethinker, yeah there are a lot of reports out there that there was a cross-border raid. yeah granted there was, but who crossed and raided who's border?

most EARLY reports are saying it was a cross into Southern Lebanon and the soldiers were captured in Aita Al Chaab (15 km in from the border).

it wasn't until Israel gave an 'official" statement a couple of hours later that it all changed to hizballah being in israel. odd that.

something is sus about israels version of this, just like their "version" of how Gilad Shalit was captured. Odd for a start that he was wearing a bullet-proof vest in a tank.. but odder still that he decided to take if off and leave it near the tank. lol then he and his captors ran 300+ yards over flat terrain (undetected by the watchtower guards)..his captors then managed to snip a hole through an electrified fence...drag him through and take him to some "hideout"....

hmmm if you believe the "official" versions freethinker...i have a gelatine bridge to sell you!

 

[Freethinker]

Which early reports are those? I have been following this since the first day and still no credible sources reported that. Hezbollah has tried raids like this several times in the past to capture Israelis and failed. They finally suceeded.

 

[humanbeing]

RE: Israeli soldiers capt

Less reported is that there were two Lebanese captured just before this took place.

 

[cmar]

free thinker... example for you and please note that the original AP story was picked up by CBS, Forbes, ABC, Boston Herald etc, The Examiner etc.. a quick google of the first line of said article can confirm this.
all from 12th july....

5:41 AM ET, Associated Press Writer Joseph Panossian originally reported "The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon"
http://www.examiner.com/a-173754~Hezbollah__2_Israeli_Soldiers_Captured.html


7:42 AM ET, Associated Press Writer Joseph Panossian had changed his report to read: "The Hezbollah militant group captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes along the Lebanese border on Wednesday."
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060712/D8IQE0SO0.html

2:51 PM ET, Associated Press Writer Joseph Panossian had again changed his report, this time to read: "Hezbollah militants crossed into Israel on Wednesday and captured two Israeli soldiers. "

http://wcbs880.com/pages/55878.php

I just find it a little suspect that after "confirmation" from Israel that yes the soldiers had been taken, the story changed... nothing like a bit of spin though to change the original story huh? reminds me a bit of chinese whispers...

humanbeing....not necessarily less reported because MANY different countries picked up the ORIGINAL version of events. Perhaps you are making that assessment on what you personally have chosen to read.

Perhaps this is where i differ from you both. Rather than just automatically believe the MSM at face value, I tend to look into things more thoroughly. I suppose my cynicism has come from my time in Iraq. We got to see what the media was saying about how things were/are going in Iraq....and the BS that you were all being fed and still are being fed is distorted and in some cases fabricated beyond belief.

but by all means...keep believing the "spin" all you want..... that's what being a freethinker is all about...right?

 

[BitWhys]

http://www.forbes.com/business/businesstech/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873042.html

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0706/343816.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5945905,00.html

http://www.niagara-gazette.com/feed...ction/D8IQC4K03.xml.txt/resources_apstoryview

and while it lasts...

http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&ta...border+in+southern+Lebanon."&btnG=Search+News

 

[Colpy]

You know, the tuth be known, I don't much give a damn whether the Israelis were in Israel or in Lebanon when they were grabbed. If they were in Lebanon (which I really doubt) they were there for a good reason......whacking Hezbollah.

Israel is a democratic, western style nation. They are our natural allies. They are threatened and attacked by Hezbollah, a tool of the lunatics in Iran.

Israel is on OUR side.

Oh yeah......the prisoner exchange. The prisoner Hezbollah wants back the most is Samir Kuntar, sentenced 27 years ago to three life terms. On a raid, he and his buddies killed a policeman, and then took a father and his four year old daughter hostage. They shot the father dead in front of his daughter, and then beat her brains out with rifle butts. They didn't even have the mercy to expend a bullet on her. FOUR YEARS OLD. At his trial, Samir laughed and taunted his captors, often showing the V for Victory sign.

Just thought you might like to know who you are defending...........

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Isreal and Lebanon

I was under the impression that the Lebanese Republic is also democratic.

 

[Colpy]

Re: Isreal and Lebanon

I was under the impression that the Lebanese Republic is also democratic.

Unfortunately, the Lebanese Republic does not control southern Lebanon. It is Lebanon in name only. Us right-wing fanatical hawks like to call the area Hezbollahstan.

If Lebanon controled the area, there would be no problem.

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Israeli soldiers captured in Lebanon, not Israel!

...Just thought you might like to know who you are defending...........

that's where you and I differ. for you its a "who". for me its a "what".

and that "what" is called "the truth".

you should try it on for size some time. it only hurts for a little while. usually. if you're cut out for it, that is.

 

[Freethinker]

As far as the "The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon" and the same reporter changing it later is an indication of the original confusion and bad translations. Obviously a bad initial translation as hardly makes sense the way it was written initially.

But hey believe that if it makes you feel better. You can also believe that the CIA flew the planes into the WTA if you want. I hear that is a common belief in the ME.

A previous Raid by Hezbollah was recorded by the Canadian who was killed, that one was rebuffed. It was only a matter of time until Hezbollah achieved their goal of a successful kidnapping, and Israel bombed them. It is all so predictable. These skirmishes have been going on ever since Israel left in 2000.

BitWhys: Do you actually believe the Israelis where captured on the Lebanese side of the border? I just want to be clear for future reference. I wouldn't want to jump to conclusion in the future when I mentally lump you together with gopher.

 

[BitWhys]

BitWhys: Do you actually believe the Israelis where captured on the Lebanese side of the border? I just want to be clear for future reference. I wouldn't want to jump to conclusion in the future when I mentally lump you together with gopher.

no I don't. for me belief is suspended either way on that one. probably always will be. the part I would really like to know is if was along the border with the Shabba Farms. Never have seen a map for it. If it was they're both right and they're both wrong. if THAT isn't a pretext for war I don't know what its.

and now that you mention it, he was writing from Beruit so it just looks hasty.

 

[Colpy]

The truth is simple.

If Hezbollah's weapons all magically disappeared, the UN mandated northern border of Israel would be peaceful.

If Israel's weapons all magically disappeared, there wouldn't be a Jew alive in the ME within 6 months.