You aren't the only one allowed to do that you know.
ost #1520054 - Re: Israeli Planes Attack Gaza Targets Bad gore0bsessed
Oh cubbyabtfetgoreobsessed, you're tipping your cards again. The tailspin into the deck, should prove entertaining.
Israeli Planes Attack Gaza Targets
- Thread starter Liberalman
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ost #1520054 - Re: Israeli Planes Attack Gaza Targets Bad gore0bsessed
Oh cubbyabtfetgoreobsessed, you're tipping your cards again. The tailspin into the deck, should prove entertaining.
Sonny, I actually have a degree in history, and worked as a research assistant in the history department at the University of New Brunswick SJ......so perhaps you should try and spread your "moronic" BS somewhere else.
Fool.
Just like you the pretender of Human Rights yet hates Israel. You also cannot answer questions when posed to you. Get all skitish like a long tailed rat in a room full of rocking chairs.
I interpreted "Never again" as never again will people be discriminated against because of their religion. "Never again" will people do nothing as people are persecuted because of their religious beliefs.
Good luck if you aren't Jewish and live in Israel.
Good luck if you aren't Jewish and live in Israel.
Common sense, isn't common. I'll cite this...
And this...
Will they be victims.
That's not a fair statement. Israel for all its faults is a democratic society that respects the rights of its Arab citizens. Israel is often misrepresented in this regard. I remember being appalled when I would read in the paper of "Jews only" roads in the West Bank, for example. They aren't Jews only roads. They're Israeli only roads, as an attempt to protect Israeli citizens.
One of the reasons I shifted my views on the issues was when I started looking at the Arab world, Muslim Palestinian culture, history and politics. Anti-Semitism is entrenched and has always played a very big role in the conflict. There's a lot of religious and ethnic intolerance, not just for Jews but for all non-Muslims. The Palestinian state as it stands would not be one that protects against religious and ethnic intolerance and oppression. Is there an Arab country where there is religious freedom? Where there are equal rights for all ethnic groups? Or women, for that matter? Baathism first, then Islamism, both nationalist and bigotted ideologies have also played a big role. We can criticize Israel, yes, but it has built a democratic society and strives towards values of freedom and human rights. This is in sharp contrast to Palestinian society, where the ideologies remain repressive. I see this as a problem not just for Israel, but also Palestinians (look at the lives and rights of people in Gaza under Hamas). Christian Palestinians, women, etc. face oppression. Jews have no rights. Part of the solution not just for the conflict but also for Palestinians has to include addressing this, I think.
No it isn't. Welcome to the board. You'll find a lot of unfair commentary from that disreputable source.
Now that's a fair statement.
Never again...
Amnesty International 2011 Annual Report - Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories
A ceasefire between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups agreed in January 2009 was generally respected. The Israeli army maintained draconian controls on the movement of Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), including a blockade on the Gaza Strip that deepened hardship and virtually imprisoned the entire population of 1.5 million. The Israeli authorities rejected or delayed applications for permits to leave Gaza submitted by hundreds of Palestinians requiring specialist medical treatment; a few died as a result. Most of Gaza’s inhabitants depended on international aid, which was severely hampered by the blockade. In May, Israeli forces killed nine men aboard an aid flotilla in international waters that was aiming to breach the blockade. In the West Bank, the movement of Palestinians was severely curtailed by hundreds of Israeli checkpoints and barriers, and by the 700km fence/wall that Israel continued to build mostly inside the West Bank. There was a substantial increase in the number of demolitions by Israeli authorities of Palestinian homes, water cisterns and other structures in the West Bank, affecting thousands of people. Israeli authorities also destroyed homes in Bedouin villages in the south of Israel. The expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on seized Palestinian land, partially frozen until 26 September, resumed. Israel still did not conduct adequate investigations into alleged war crimes and other serious violations of international law by its forces during Operation “Cast Lead”, the 22-day offensive in Gaza in December 2008/January 2009, during which nearly 1,400 Palestinians, including more than 300 children, were killed. Israeli soldiers and settlers who committed serious abuses against Palestinians, including unlawful killings, assaults and attacks against property, were generally not held to account for their crimes. Israeli military forces killed 33 Palestinian civilians in the OPT, including eight children. Hundreds of Palestinians were arrested and detained by Israeli forces; at least 264 were held without charge or trial under administrative detention orders, some had been held for over two years. Reports of torture and other ill-treatment were frequent, but investigations were rare. Around 6,000 Palestinians remained in Israeli prisons, many after unfair military trials. Israeli conscientious objectors to military service continued to be imprisoned.
Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
Your description of Israel isn't entirely accurate. Millions of people suffer cruel oppression and injustice as a direct consequence of a 44 year occupation. I'm certain millions of Palestinians would disagree with your description of Israel.
Israeli only roads are mostly used by Israeli Jews traveling to and from illegal Jewish only colonies built on land illegally taken from Palestinians in violation of internal laws. While I would agree with you that Israelis have a right to safety and security, I also believe that Palestinians should have the same right. The fact is they don't and I noticed that you never noticed.
I agree with you regarding the state of human rights in most Arab/Muslim countries, with a few notable exceptions. Turkey is an example of a democratic Muslim majority nation.
Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article describes life today for Jews who live in Turkey, warts and all:
Being Jewish in Turkey, before and after the Mavi Marmara (part 1 of 2)
Most Arab/Muslim majority countries are about 100 years or more behind the west regarding equal rights and religious tolerance. Far too many Arab nations are led by dictators, often with the support of the west. I agree that Muslim nations tend to treat all religious minorities poorly, and since Zionism, Jews have been treated worse than other religious minorities, with a few notable exceptions. This article describes life for Jews living in Iran... also warts included:
IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran
Its unfair to judge Palestinians by the actions of Arabs and Muslims in other areas. That would be like describing Canadians based on the actions of the Americans. Canadians aren't Americans and Palestinians aren't Iraqis, Egyptians, Lebanese.... For centuries before Zionism, Palestine was multicultural society where Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in peace. Zionism brought violence and war to this region. You obviously have many common misconceptions regarding Israel. This website might prove enlightening:
A Synopsis of the Israel/Palestine Conflict
Unlike the Canadian government, I hold Israel to the same standard as other nations and when it comes to human rights and freedoms. Canada has a pretty good record condemning countries with poor human rights records. Israel is a notable exception. Israel's human rights record has been appalling since its creation. Millions of people who live inside the areas controlled by the the Israeli government lack many fundamental human rights. These people suffer religious based persecution and discrimination.
Never Again?
Human rights in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
True enough Jews in Israel aren't victims. In fact here is what Amnesty International wrote about these former victims in their last annual report:
Amnesty International 2011 Annual Report - Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories
A ceasefire between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups agreed in January 2009 was generally respected. The Israeli army maintained draconian controls on the movement of Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), including a blockade on the Gaza Strip that deepened hardship and virtually imprisoned the entire population of 1.5 million. The Israeli authorities rejected or delayed applications for permits to leave Gaza submitted by hundreds of Palestinians requiring specialist medical treatment; a few died as a result. Most of Gaza’s inhabitants depended on international aid, which was severely hampered by the blockade. In May, Israeli forces killed nine men aboard an aid flotilla in international waters that was aiming to breach the blockade. In the West Bank, the movement of Palestinians was severely curtailed by hundreds of Israeli checkpoints and barriers, and by the 700km fence/wall that Israel continued to build mostly inside the West Bank. There was a substantial increase in the number of demolitions by Israeli authorities of Palestinian homes, water cisterns and other structures in the West Bank, affecting thousands of people. Israeli authorities also destroyed homes in Bedouin villages in the south of Israel. The expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on seized Palestinian land, partially frozen until 26 September, resumed. Israel still did not conduct adequate investigations into alleged war crimes and other serious violations of international law by its forces during Operation “Cast Lead”, the 22-day offensive in Gaza in December 2008/January 2009, during which nearly 1,400 Palestinians, including more than 300 children, were killed. Israeli soldiers and settlers who committed serious abuses against Palestinians, including unlawful killings, assaults and attacks against property, were generally not held to account for their crimes. Israeli military forces killed 33 Palestinian civilians in the OPT, including eight children. Hundreds of Palestinians were arrested and detained by Israeli forces; at least 264 were held without charge or trial under administrative detention orders, some had been held for over two years. Reports of torture and other ill-treatment were frequent, but investigations were rare. Around 6,000 Palestinians remained in Israeli prisons, many after unfair military trials. Israeli conscientious objectors to military service continued to be imprisoned.
Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
Your description of Israel isn't entirely accurate. Millions of people suffer cruel oppression and injustice as a direct consequence of a 44 year occupation. I'm certain millions of Palestinians would disagree with your description of Israel.
Israeli only roads are mostly used by Israeli Jews traveling to and from illegal Jewish only colonies built on land illegally taken from Palestinians in violation of internal laws. While I would agree with you that Israelis have a right to safety and security, I also believe that Palestinians should have the same right. The fact is they don't and I noticed that you never noticed.
I agree with you regarding the state of human rights in most Arab/Muslim countries, with a few notable exceptions. Turkey is an example of a democratic Muslim majority nation.
Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article describes life today for Jews who live in Turkey, warts and all:
Being Jewish in Turkey, before and after the Mavi Marmara (part 1 of 2)
Most Arab/Muslim majority countries are about 100 years or more behind the west regarding equal rights and religious tolerance. Far too many Arab nations are led by dictators, often with the support of the west. I agree that Muslim nations tend to treat all religious minorities poorly, and since Zionism, Jews have been treated worse than other religious minorities, with a few notable exceptions. This article describes life for Jews living in Iran... also warts included:
IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran
Its unfair to judge Palestinians by the actions of Arabs and Muslims in other areas. That would be like describing Canadians based on the actions of the Americans. Canadians aren't Americans and Palestinians aren't Iraqis, Egyptians, Lebanese.... For centuries before Zionism, Palestine was multicultural society where Muslims, Christians and Jews lived in peace. Zionism brought violence and war to this region. You obviously have many common misconceptions regarding Israel. This website might prove enlightening:
A Synopsis of the Israel/Palestine Conflict
Unlike the Canadian government, I hold Israel to the same standard as other nations and when it comes to human rights and freedoms. Canada has a pretty good record condemning countries with poor human rights records. Israel is a notable exception. Israel's human rights record has been appalling since its creation. Millions of people who live inside the areas controlled by the the Israeli government lack many fundamental human rights. These people suffer religious based persecution and discrimination.
Never Again?
Human rights in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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See, I knew you hated them so much, that you didn't think lobbing rockets at Israeli civilians didn't make them victims.
Now that you admit that you hate Jews, where do we go from here?
A disreputable source, citing a disreputable source, good work in proving me right, yet again.
I stand corrected. Israelis are victims of Palestinian rockets and mortars. I should have been more clear and stated that Jews in Israel aren't victims of the Israeli government.
Amnesty International won a Nobel Peace prize for their actions. They call it the way they see it. Here is how they describe Canada:
Indigenous Peoples faced ongoing, systematic violations of their rights. There were fears that proposed new legislation could result in the prolonged detention of asylum-seekers. Concerns about human rights violations associated with counter-terror and security operations persisted.
Background
A proposed bill to create a national housing strategy consistent with international human rights standards was pending at the end of the year.
In June, Parliament passed legislation to implement a free trade agreement with Colombia but this did not include a credible, independent human rights impact assessment. In October, a bill to develop national human rights standards and an associated enforcement scheme for businesses was narrowly defeated by the House of Commons.
In June a national coalition was launched, Voices/Voix, responding to government funding cuts and other measures that impeded civil society advocacy in such areas as women’s equality and the rights of Palestinians.
Indigenous Peoples’ rights
The traditional lands of the Lubicon Cree continued to be exploited for oil and gas development authorized by the Alberta provincial government without the free, prior and informed consent of the Lubicon. In September, the UN Special Rapporteur on indigenous people called for “renewed and resolute” action to protect the rights of the Lubicon.
There were continuing concerns about failure to investigate excessive use of force by police during protests over land rights in Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory in Ontario. Progress in implementing related reforms proposed by the 2007 Ipperwash Inquiry remained slow.
A Canadian Human Rights Tribunal hearing continued into a complaint that the federal government spends substantially less on child and family services in First Nations communities than is provided in predominantly non-Indigenous communities.
The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights proceeded with a review of a complaint from the Hul’qumi’num Treaty Group, alleging violations of Indigenous land rights on Vancouver Island in British Columbia.
In November, Canada endorsed the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Indigenous Peoples’ organizations urged the government to implement the Declaration in a principled manner.
Women’s rights
In June, as host of the G8 Summit, the government announced a global child and maternal health initiative. There was controversy about the lack of a comprehensive approach on sexual and reproductive rights.
In September, the British Columbia government announced an inquiry into the police response to cases of missing and murdered women in Vancouver, many of whom were Indigenous. There were concerns that the inquiry might not analyse the underlying factors that put these women at risk.
The federal government failed to work with Indigenous women to establish a national action plan to address the high levels of violence they face. A government funding announcement in October left substantial gaps in the protection afforded Indigenous women.
In October the federal government released an Action Plan for the Implementation of UN Security Council Resolutions on Women, Peace and Security.
Counter-terror and security
In January, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that Canadian officials violated the rights of Canadian citizen Omar Khadr during interrogations at Guantánamo Bay in 2003 and 2004. He had been apprehended by US forces when he was 15 years old. (See USA entry.)
Hearings by the Military Police Complaints Commission into concerns that Canadian soldiers transferred prisoners in Afghanistan to the custody of Afghan officials, despite a serious risk they would be tortured, continued throughout the year.
Refugees
In June, Parliament passed the Balanced Refugee Reform Act, instituting an appeal for refused refugee claimants and introducing a safe country of origin list to be used for expediting some refugee claims.
In October, the government proposed legislation to crack down on human smuggling, which penalizes refugee claimants arriving in Canada in an “irregular” manner. The proposals included mandatory detention for one year without access to a detention review.
Policing and justice
In April, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police revised its policy, limiting the use of conducted energy devices to situations where individuals are “causing bodily harm” or “will imminently cause bodily harm.”
Aron Firman died in June, after being stunned with a Taser by members of the Ontario Provincial Police in Collingwood, Ontario. Federal Guidelines for the Use of Conducted Energy Weapons, released in October, did not set a threshold of risk for Taser use.
In June, more than 1,000 people were arrested in Toronto during protests related to the G8 and G20 Summits. The federal and Ontario governments rejected calls for a comprehensive public inquiry.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/canada/report-2011
Amnesty International won a Nobel Peace prize for their actions. They call it the way they see it. Here is how they describe Canada:
Indigenous Peoples faced ongoing, systematic violations of their rights. There were fears that proposed new legislation could result in the prolonged detention of asylum-seekers. Concerns about human rights violations associated with counter-terror and security operations persisted.
Background
A proposed bill to create a national housing strategy consistent with international human rights standards was pending at the end of the year.
In June, Parliament passed legislation to implement a free trade agreement with Colombia but this did not include a credible, independent human rights impact assessment. In October, a bill to develop national human rights standards and an associated enforcement scheme for businesses was narrowly defeated by the House of Commons.
In June a national coalition was launched, Voices/Voix, responding to government funding cuts and other measures that impeded civil society advocacy in such areas as women’s equality and the rights of Palestinians.
Indigenous Peoples’ rights
The traditional lands of the Lubicon Cree continued to be exploited for oil and gas development authorized by the Alberta provincial government without the free, prior and informed consent of the Lubicon. In September, the UN Special Rapporteur on indigenous people called for “renewed and resolute” action to protect the rights of the Lubicon.
There were continuing concerns about failure to investigate excessive use of force by police during protests over land rights in Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory in Ontario. Progress in implementing related reforms proposed by the 2007 Ipperwash Inquiry remained slow.
A Canadian Human Rights Tribunal hearing continued into a complaint that the federal government spends substantially less on child and family services in First Nations communities than is provided in predominantly non-Indigenous communities.
The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights proceeded with a review of a complaint from the Hul’qumi’num Treaty Group, alleging violations of Indigenous land rights on Vancouver Island in British Columbia.
In November, Canada endorsed the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Indigenous Peoples’ organizations urged the government to implement the Declaration in a principled manner.
Women’s rights
In June, as host of the G8 Summit, the government announced a global child and maternal health initiative. There was controversy about the lack of a comprehensive approach on sexual and reproductive rights.
In September, the British Columbia government announced an inquiry into the police response to cases of missing and murdered women in Vancouver, many of whom were Indigenous. There were concerns that the inquiry might not analyse the underlying factors that put these women at risk.
The federal government failed to work with Indigenous women to establish a national action plan to address the high levels of violence they face. A government funding announcement in October left substantial gaps in the protection afforded Indigenous women.
In October the federal government released an Action Plan for the Implementation of UN Security Council Resolutions on Women, Peace and Security.
Counter-terror and security
In January, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that Canadian officials violated the rights of Canadian citizen Omar Khadr during interrogations at Guantánamo Bay in 2003 and 2004. He had been apprehended by US forces when he was 15 years old. (See USA entry.)
Hearings by the Military Police Complaints Commission into concerns that Canadian soldiers transferred prisoners in Afghanistan to the custody of Afghan officials, despite a serious risk they would be tortured, continued throughout the year.
Refugees
In June, Parliament passed the Balanced Refugee Reform Act, instituting an appeal for refused refugee claimants and introducing a safe country of origin list to be used for expediting some refugee claims.
In October, the government proposed legislation to crack down on human smuggling, which penalizes refugee claimants arriving in Canada in an “irregular” manner. The proposals included mandatory detention for one year without access to a detention review.
Policing and justice
In April, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police revised its policy, limiting the use of conducted energy devices to situations where individuals are “causing bodily harm” or “will imminently cause bodily harm.”
Aron Firman died in June, after being stunned with a Taser by members of the Ontario Provincial Police in Collingwood, Ontario. Federal Guidelines for the Use of Conducted Energy Weapons, released in October, did not set a threshold of risk for Taser use.
In June, more than 1,000 people were arrested in Toronto during protests related to the G8 and G20 Summits. The federal and Ontario governments rejected calls for a comprehensive public inquiry.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/canada/report-2011
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It isn't the first time, but at least you admit it.
Ya, Obama won one as well. For doing nothing. The Nobel Prize isn't what it used to be.
No they call it like they want to see it. Just like you. Especially in your selective belief in AI. Since you've ignored posts citing AI's reports on Venezuela. When you were busy blaming the US for the problems there.
Which is of course why you're a disreputable source, citing a disreputable source.
Zionism has no legitimacy in Palestine nor on earth anywhere. It has proven to be a disgusting death cult. It is simply the worlds worst curse, that of super organized crime. remember the Hyksos and their plunder and rape of Egypt
Earth,
The Palestinians are at war with Israel. These are two distinct nations at war. There’s often confusion about this when looking at Israel, as if Palestinians were citizens of Israel, being oppressed, and denied the same rights as Jewish and non Jewish Israeli citizens. They are not citizens of Israel. And they are at war with Israel.
Even in a peaceful situation, immigrants in Canada do not have the right to vote. This is a basic right granted to all citizens. Canada takes families who have entered the country without its permission by force and deports them. From the perspective of someone who doesn’t recognize Canada as a country with the right to protect its citizens, a right to its autonomy as a nation, Canada could be portrayed as an oppressive state that denies human beings basis human rights. This is the confused thinking that is applied to Israel in its treatment of Palestinians.
In this sense, Palestinians who are at war with Israel and claim that Israel has no right to exist as a nation and that the entire land must be returned to Muslim rule have a victory. The international community, human rights groups, etc. often judge Israel as if it isn’t a state, a nation, that has the right to have different laws and treatment of its citizens versus non-citizens. Israel has even been called an “apartheid state”, as if non-Israeli Palestinians are second class citizens of Israel. This is an underhanded way of rejecting Israel’s true status as an independent nation, a state and discussing the issues as if what we know as Israel as well as Gaza and West Bank are all one actual state, country. They are not.
It gets more complicated because Palestinians are at war with Israel and seek to see its end as a state. That’s why Israel always demands they accept Israel’s right to exist in negotiations.That acceptance is the end of the war. Palestinians refuse to do that. That’s why even as they declare their own state, they are willing to keep their own people in refugee camps and deny them citizenship. Think of the hypocrisy in demanding a nation you are at war with grant you equal rights to its citizens and you denying your own brothers and sisters living on your own land, who are part of your “people,” since you say you are “a people,” even citizenship! I’m not judging Palestinians by other Arab nations. It’s important to look at the rights of Palestinian people under the rule of Palestinian leadership.
You say: For centuries before Zionism,Palestine was multicultural society where Muslims, Christians and Jews lived inpeace. Zionism brought violence and war to this region. You obviously have manycommon misconceptions regarding Israel.
This is not true. Under Islamic rule, which is what Palestinians go by, non-Muslims do not have equal rights. They are treated benevolently as long as they accept Muslim rule and second-classcitizen ship rights. If they get “uppity”, pogroms and brutal repression follows. And all land that has been conquered or ruled by Muslims, must always be ruled by Muslims. Israel is an affront to this. Only when Islamic rule is modernized and Islam undergoes the same widespread reformation that Christianity or Judaism have will this and other issues, including women’s rights, be resolved. And yes, in countries like Turkey this is happening. But you should look at the specifics of the respects of rights, equality and freedom under Palestinian rule. The assumption that they are more progressive than other Arab nations is a false one. And to blame anti-Semitism among Palestinians and Arabs on Zionism is to erase history and fact on the ground by essentially blaming racism against Jews on the Jews.
As for Gaza. Israel withdrew. It dismantled the settlements. What happened? Rather than focusing on building their society, the leadership turned Gaza into a battleground to wage war against Israel. I used to think when pro-Israelis argued that if Israel withdrew from the territories, it would only empower Palestinians to wage more war and that their goal was not to end the occupation but to destroy Israel,that they were paranoid. Gaza proved them right.
oleoleolanda
You wrote "Palestinians are at war with Israel" I noticed that you didn't write that "Israel is at war with the Palestinians". Its a safe bet that you probably see this conflict as Israelis (victims) constantly attacked by Palestinians (terrorists). You should be aware that far more Palestinians are killed by Israeli terrorism than the other way around.
If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine
However since our main stream media has taken sides, they report Israeli deaths as victims of terrorism, while Israelis only kill Palestinian terrorists. I question that definition, especially when applied to Palestinian children.
I see this conflict as a result of Palestine being taken over by hostile foreigners who believe that God gave them the right to Palestinian homes, bank accounts, farmland, water resources... What used to be a peaceful predominently Muslim area became a violent Jewish state. Please feel free to correct me. You can list all the violence which occurred in this rgion while it was an Ottoman province. I'll make a longer list of all the violence which occurred here since the Zionists took over this region.
Could you please reference when the UN consulted the people living in Palestine before they imposed a Jewish only state on them? How do you think Muslims felt about the UN decision to make them second class citizens in a Jewish state? If you look athow the UN partitioned the land, a minority of the people (mostly foreigners and recent immigrants) got the best farmland and control of the water. The majority got mostly desert and little access to water.... which is kind of important when you live in a desert.
In the 1930's and 40's tens of thousands of Jewish refugees fled the horrors of Nazi Europe and came to Palestine. In 1947 Zionists (people who believe God gave Jews the right to cleanse Palestine of non-Jewish Palestinians) started an ethnic cleansing war which continues to this day. Zionists committed a serious of atrocities in order to deliberately terrorize the local population, causing most of them to flee. By the time the Zionists declared independence, they had cleansed most of the area they controlled of non-Jews. The Zionists deliberately committed acts of terrorism. Historians have found records which show how the Zionists deliberately and meticulously planned the ethnic cleansing war years in advance. The neighboring countries, who voted against UN plans to create a Jewish state in Palestnine declared war because of the unfairness, atrocities and huge refugee burden created by Zionists. These nations probably would have declared war earlier, but that would have meant going to war with the British. In 1948, when the Brits pulled out, the neighboring countries were able to declare war without going to war with the British. By the time Israel declared independence, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians had already lost homes, their businesses and farms. The Deir Yassin massacre and other horrendous atrocities had already been committed. In 1967, Israel conquered the West Bank and Gaza and these Palestinians also became nationless.
Palestinians today continue to suffer the humiliation of being foreigners to the land where they were born in contravention of international law. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have lost their homes, bank accounts, farms, parks, graveyards... becaue they weren't Jewish. These people lost all their fundamental human rights and that's why they fight. They want the same things the rest of us have: nationality, the right to due process, the right to justice... Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza have none of these rights. They have no freedom, no justice, no nationality... A Jewish Israeli can walk up to a non-citizen Palestinian and put a bullet between their eyes and probably get away with it. The only time they would face any consequences for killing a Palestinian is the incident caught on video and the news makes a big deal of it... and sometimes not even then. Almost always, Israeli murders of Palestinians remain unsolved.
Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
If Palestine was a recognized country, then Israel wouldn't be able to build Jewish only colonies in the West Bank. Since Israel can and does build Jewish only colonies in the West Bank, that makes the West Bank part of Israel. Feel free to prove me wrong by giving another contemporary example where one country builds colonies for its people in another country.
Since Israel controls the borders, provides custom services, controls immigration, controls who can build a home and where they can build it, access to water, collects (and withholds) taxes, builds roads... and does pretty everything that a regular government does for its citizens, that makes the West Bank part of Israel. Israel is trying to pull the same BS that White Afrikaaners tried to pull on Black South Africans when they tried to create Black "homelands". The world rejected SA apartheid back then and the overwhelming majority of the world rejects the Israeli version of apartheid today. Many Canadians have a incorrect perception that most of the world approves of the Israeli version of apartheid, when in fact 90% of the people outside US and Canada are well aware of the human rights abuses suffered by Palestinians as a direct consequences of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.
This is not a war between nations. Palestine would have to be a nation first. This is a civil war between the "haves" and the "have nots" within a region controlled by one government. In this area, Israeli Jews, even the ones living in the West Bank have full rights. Israeli Arabs have limited rights. Palestinians have no rights.
The only way Palestinians have been able to stop Israeli's creeping ethnic cleansing has been through active resistance. In the case of Gaza, they've used violence. I am against violence, but I understand why people who violently suffer oppression and injustice would violently fight for freedom and justice. Until you loose your citizenship, your home, your bank accounts and watch the state take these things from you and award them to someone else because they were chosen by God and you weren't, you can't know what its like to suffer as palestinians have suffered for 64 years now. I do support non-violent efforts by Palestinians to gain their freedom and get justice.
I invite you to discover that thousands of Palestinians use non-violent means to fight for freedom and justice:
bilin-village.org | News
As for Gaza, Israel didn't withdraw on their own. Gaza's non-people resisted so violently that they forced the Israeli colonists out. Sure the Israeli government tried to portray this as a form of generousity and people like you bought that line... but its more accurate to say that increasing Gaza violence made Israel's Gaza colony undefendable and as a result Israel abandoned it.
If you think Palestinian Jews were discriminated against and persecuted worse than Palestinian Christians, other religious minorities or worse than how Christian persecuted Jews in Europe, then please give me examples to back up your opinion.
I think you have a lot of common misconceptions regarding the historical animosity between Jews and Muslims. Why do you think for centuries, Jews fleeing Christian countries typically fled to Muslim countries? That wouldn't make sense if the situation for Jews was worse in Muslim countries. Jews fled to Muslim countries because in general Muslims mostly left Jews alone. As long as Jews paid their taxes like everyone else, they enjoyed the same rights and freedoms as other non-Muslims living in a Muslim country.
Yes I would agree that many Muslims majority countries have lots of problems. Many of their problems have to do with the various western imposed dictators. Their development was stifled by western exploitation. The west has been meddling in the affairs of Muslim and Arabs for centuries. The Arab spring as its called hopefully will lead to more enlightened Arab democracies. I hope these new Arab democracies will model themselves after Turkey, the only true democracy in the region, including Israel.
You wrote "Palestinians are at war with Israel" I noticed that you didn't write that "Israel is at war with the Palestinians". Its a safe bet that you probably see this conflict as Israelis (victims) constantly attacked by Palestinians (terrorists). You should be aware that far more Palestinians are killed by Israeli terrorism than the other way around.
If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine
However since our main stream media has taken sides, they report Israeli deaths as victims of terrorism, while Israelis only kill Palestinian terrorists. I question that definition, especially when applied to Palestinian children.
I see this conflict as a result of Palestine being taken over by hostile foreigners who believe that God gave them the right to Palestinian homes, bank accounts, farmland, water resources... What used to be a peaceful predominently Muslim area became a violent Jewish state. Please feel free to correct me. You can list all the violence which occurred in this rgion while it was an Ottoman province. I'll make a longer list of all the violence which occurred here since the Zionists took over this region.
Could you please reference when the UN consulted the people living in Palestine before they imposed a Jewish only state on them? How do you think Muslims felt about the UN decision to make them second class citizens in a Jewish state? If you look athow the UN partitioned the land, a minority of the people (mostly foreigners and recent immigrants) got the best farmland and control of the water. The majority got mostly desert and little access to water.... which is kind of important when you live in a desert.
In the 1930's and 40's tens of thousands of Jewish refugees fled the horrors of Nazi Europe and came to Palestine. In 1947 Zionists (people who believe God gave Jews the right to cleanse Palestine of non-Jewish Palestinians) started an ethnic cleansing war which continues to this day. Zionists committed a serious of atrocities in order to deliberately terrorize the local population, causing most of them to flee. By the time the Zionists declared independence, they had cleansed most of the area they controlled of non-Jews. The Zionists deliberately committed acts of terrorism. Historians have found records which show how the Zionists deliberately and meticulously planned the ethnic cleansing war years in advance. The neighboring countries, who voted against UN plans to create a Jewish state in Palestnine declared war because of the unfairness, atrocities and huge refugee burden created by Zionists. These nations probably would have declared war earlier, but that would have meant going to war with the British. In 1948, when the Brits pulled out, the neighboring countries were able to declare war without going to war with the British. By the time Israel declared independence, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians had already lost homes, their businesses and farms. The Deir Yassin massacre and other horrendous atrocities had already been committed. In 1967, Israel conquered the West Bank and Gaza and these Palestinians also became nationless.
Palestinians today continue to suffer the humiliation of being foreigners to the land where they were born in contravention of international law. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have lost their homes, bank accounts, farms, parks, graveyards... becaue they weren't Jewish. These people lost all their fundamental human rights and that's why they fight. They want the same things the rest of us have: nationality, the right to due process, the right to justice... Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza have none of these rights. They have no freedom, no justice, no nationality... A Jewish Israeli can walk up to a non-citizen Palestinian and put a bullet between their eyes and probably get away with it. The only time they would face any consequences for killing a Palestinian is the incident caught on video and the news makes a big deal of it... and sometimes not even then. Almost always, Israeli murders of Palestinians remain unsolved.
Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
If Palestine was a recognized country, then Israel wouldn't be able to build Jewish only colonies in the West Bank. Since Israel can and does build Jewish only colonies in the West Bank, that makes the West Bank part of Israel. Feel free to prove me wrong by giving another contemporary example where one country builds colonies for its people in another country.
Since Israel controls the borders, provides custom services, controls immigration, controls who can build a home and where they can build it, access to water, collects (and withholds) taxes, builds roads... and does pretty everything that a regular government does for its citizens, that makes the West Bank part of Israel. Israel is trying to pull the same BS that White Afrikaaners tried to pull on Black South Africans when they tried to create Black "homelands". The world rejected SA apartheid back then and the overwhelming majority of the world rejects the Israeli version of apartheid today. Many Canadians have a incorrect perception that most of the world approves of the Israeli version of apartheid, when in fact 90% of the people outside US and Canada are well aware of the human rights abuses suffered by Palestinians as a direct consequences of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.
This is not a war between nations. Palestine would have to be a nation first. This is a civil war between the "haves" and the "have nots" within a region controlled by one government. In this area, Israeli Jews, even the ones living in the West Bank have full rights. Israeli Arabs have limited rights. Palestinians have no rights.
The only way Palestinians have been able to stop Israeli's creeping ethnic cleansing has been through active resistance. In the case of Gaza, they've used violence. I am against violence, but I understand why people who violently suffer oppression and injustice would violently fight for freedom and justice. Until you loose your citizenship, your home, your bank accounts and watch the state take these things from you and award them to someone else because they were chosen by God and you weren't, you can't know what its like to suffer as palestinians have suffered for 64 years now. I do support non-violent efforts by Palestinians to gain their freedom and get justice.
I invite you to discover that thousands of Palestinians use non-violent means to fight for freedom and justice:
bilin-village.org | News
As for Gaza, Israel didn't withdraw on their own. Gaza's non-people resisted so violently that they forced the Israeli colonists out. Sure the Israeli government tried to portray this as a form of generousity and people like you bought that line... but its more accurate to say that increasing Gaza violence made Israel's Gaza colony undefendable and as a result Israel abandoned it.
If you think Palestinian Jews were discriminated against and persecuted worse than Palestinian Christians, other religious minorities or worse than how Christian persecuted Jews in Europe, then please give me examples to back up your opinion.
I think you have a lot of common misconceptions regarding the historical animosity between Jews and Muslims. Why do you think for centuries, Jews fleeing Christian countries typically fled to Muslim countries? That wouldn't make sense if the situation for Jews was worse in Muslim countries. Jews fled to Muslim countries because in general Muslims mostly left Jews alone. As long as Jews paid their taxes like everyone else, they enjoyed the same rights and freedoms as other non-Muslims living in a Muslim country.
Yes I would agree that many Muslims majority countries have lots of problems. Many of their problems have to do with the various western imposed dictators. Their development was stifled by western exploitation. The west has been meddling in the affairs of Muslim and Arabs for centuries. The Arab spring as its called hopefully will lead to more enlightened Arab democracies. I hope these new Arab democracies will model themselves after Turkey, the only true democracy in the region, including Israel.
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