Israel...

[Zzarchov]

I've come to a conclusion. Im not gonna bother commenting on Israel anymore. People just preach revisionist history. Its refuted. Time goes by, the same stuff is posted by the same people hoping no one will notice it before its buried in the pages and it will go unrefuted this time.

I'll just sit back and take notice that, really it doesn't matter how much people whine about Israel. The people in Israel will continue to protect themselves, as we would, and seeing as how we are preaching that they should kill themselves and their children, they will never listen to a damn bit of idiocy any masses in Canada preach.

They don't require any US aid, the US aid is more a way to ensure the Israeli arms Industry doesn't compete internationally with American, which it could. Plenty of nations in the world would love to buy Israeli missiles, let alone nuclear technology. If America stops funding them China will, or Russia or anyone who wants a powerful ally in a crucial theatre and a source of high technology innovations to enrich their own economy.

 

[Just the Facts]

The truce had one condition on Israels end, stop firing rockets.

Its not a truce if you are still shooting at people.

So true. I keep hearing about how ineffective the rockets are. Well, duh! then why fire them? It's the epitome of self-destructive insanity.

Good expression I heard the other day that applies oh so perfectly to the Palestinains in general, and the past decade in Gaza especially "military inferiority does not equal moral superiority".

So true. In this case the underdog is not to be favoured. It is a dog of war.

 

[lone wolf]

The fact you two demi-fuhrers condone the mass murder of non-combatants worries me? Why aren't your arses over there doing as you preach?

 

[Just the Facts]

The fact you two demi-fuhrers condone the mass murder of non-combatants worries me? Why aren't your arses over there doing as you preach?

Why isn't my arse over there not firing rockets at Israel? That's silly, I can do that from the comfort of my armchair. No travel required.

 

[lone wolf]

Why isn't my arse over there not firing rockets at Israel? That's silly, I can do that from the comfort of my armchair. No travel required.

No travel required to manipulate words and manufacture truths either....

 

[Zzarchov]

No travel required to manipulate words and manufacture truths either....

You should know, you are living proof of the concept , when the facts don't fit your opinions, ignore the facts eh wolf

One reason Im not going to bother getting into the debate about Israel, is ignoring the rights and wrongs or who did what,

It always boils down to an appeal to logic versus and appeal to emotion. Hard numbers get thrown out for Israel, sad music and photo montages of generic suffering for Palestine.

Its not the same debate, one is arguing rational decisions with facts, the other is arguing how they feel in their hearts.

The two rarely meet. I would suggest its pointless to bother for you as well.

 

[lone wolf]

You should know, you are living proof of the concept , when the facts don't fit your opinions, ignore the facts eh wolf

One reason Im not going to bother getting into the debate about Israel, is ignoring the rights and wrongs or who did what,

It always boils down to an appeal to logic versus and appeal to emotion. Hard numbers get thrown out for Israel, sad music and photo montages of generic suffering for Palestine.

Its not the same debate, one is arguing rational decisions with facts, the other is arguing how they feel in their hearts.

The two rarely meet. I would suggest its pointless to bother for you as well.

Keep sending. You paint yourself more the fool every time you describe yourself in every accusation.

 

[Zzarchov]

Keep sending. You paint yourself more the fool every time you describe yourself in every accusation.

I can't be both "Cold and Callous" and "Irrationally Emotional". Logic is described as cold for a reason.

You really need to think with your head, not your heart.

 

[lone wolf]

I can't be both "Cold and Callous" and "Irrationally Emotional". Logic is described as cold for a reason.

You really need to think with your head, not your heart.

Very good, Zz.... You have just described half a thought process. Come back when you get it right.

Heart - humane, caring etc (you know, the part that makes one human) sees Israel as completely in the wrong in this case. Head - cold hard logic - sees it as completely stupid to create international condemnation and many thousands of new enemies. At least I am capable of thought tempered by both compassion and wisdom.

Sorry about your lack of vision....

 

[Zzarchov]

Thats not logic at all. No matter what happens, Israel will always be the villain in peoples mind. But here you are, trying to drag me back in, you are welcome to any beliefs you may hold, thankfully it won't ever matter.

 

[lone wolf]

Thats not logic at all. No matter what happens, Israel will always be the villain in peoples mind. But here you are, trying to drag me back in, you are welcome to any beliefs you may hold, thankfully it won't ever matter.

Ha! Considering neither of us matter from a Middle Eastern perspective, what logic would there be in dragging you anywhere?

 

[einmensch]

The Palestinian people are the new victims of the crimes against humanity — committed by a people who once were the victims. And nobody can claim this holocaust is veiled in secrecy, taking place in a remote corner of the earth away from the glare of the world media.

 

[Blackleaf]

Israel is justified in what it is doing. Beforehand, Hamas was firing rockets into Israel, as many as 600 a week. Now they are going to the international community complaining about Israel. Hamas remind me of a school bully who repeatedly punches his victim, then when the victim retaliates with a few punches himself to defend himself, the bully runs to the teacher crying because he got punched.

The fact that Hamas never killed as many people as the Israelis have killed is only thanks to the fact that Hamas rockets are not as accurate as Israeli rockets (many Hamas rockets have landed on the Gaza Strip itself), though Hamas WOULD have killed hundreds of Israelis civilians if their rockets were more accurate and Hamas's intent to do do is there.

But whereas Hamas deliberately aims for Israeli citizens, Israel is doing its best to aim for Hamas terrorists only. Only around a fifth of Gazan casualties are civilians, and this is partly thanks to Hamas (who have, in the past, thrown women and homosexuals off the top of cliffs) putting some of their rocket launchers in schools and hospitals.

Put it this way, if France fires 600 rockets into Britain in the space of a week then Britain would be well justified to fire hundreds of rockets onto French cities.

It's also a pity the British didn't act the same way against Irish terrorism than the Israelis are against Hamas terrorism. The RAF could have destroyed Ireland and Boston.

 

[earth_as_one]

A recent map of the West Bank concentration camps:

It came from this webpage:

Broken Ceasefire: Facts about the Israeli War on Palestine

Thursday, January 01 2009 @ 09:23 PM EST
Edited by: Michael Hess

[SIZE=+1]Israel broke the latest ceasefire early in November 2008[/SIZE]

BBSNews 2009-01-01 -- By Michael Hess. Western press have recently and erroneously reported that Hamas broke a six month ceasefire even as most reported in November 2008 that Israel itself first broke the informal truce. In recent days Prime Minister Olmert has tied the end of the current attacks by Israel on Gaza to an international "monitoring" force to ensure that Hamas meets terms of a new ceasefire. Some of the early pre-strike tactics have been questioned by officials, and it is unlikely this latest conflict will resolve anything because it does not address the root cause, the ongoing occupations.
In this decades long occupation of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem there have been many lulls that lapse into tit for tat violence and then creep back into lulls again.
In the most recent case, Hamas and Israel came to an informal agreement in June 2008 where Hamas would halt rocket fire and reign in various militant factions in the Strip while at the same time opening border crossings. Instead, Hamas largely kept the ceasefire and the crossings never opened except for the most sporadic of instances and the humanitarian crisis deepened in Gaza.
Western press in light of the most recent assault on Gaza seem to have forgotten who broke the truce and are erroneously attributing the end of the ceasefire to either rockets and or the expiration of the original agreement.
Hagada Hasmalit provided an analysis of of articles describing the breakdown of the ceasefire and who was responsible and also took the New York Times to task for the devolving reportage during this most recent spate of violence. Viewing the timeline of news reporting from November 4-15, 2008 it becomes crystal clear that Israel broke the ceasefire...

BBSNews - Broken Ceasefire: Facts about the Israeli War on Palestine

 

[einmensch]

Please tell us how badly Jews have been treated and how kind they are to others.

It seems Israel with the USA's blessing can do no wrong. Might is Right--Hermann Goering spoke the truth.

 

[dancing-loon]

Please tell us how badly Jews have been treated and how kind they are to others.

It seems Israel with the USA's blessing can do no wrong. Might is Right--Hermann Goering spoke the truth.

I haven't been here for a while and have by far not read all the posts, so it is possible that the following essay has already been posted here - in that case I apologize for repeating it.

This essay goes way back and lists all the persecutions of the Jewish people by Christians and non-Christians, with reasons of why given.

As it appears presently and in the recent history it seems the Jews are a domineering kind of people. If one considers however how over the past 2000 years the Jews have been treated, one cannot help but wonder, if these conflicts between Jews and other groups has developed something like a subconscious urge that carries itself through the generations to this very day... like a tit for tat.

Right now it is the Palestinians who bear the brunt of the Jews anger; before it was the Jews being persecuted by the Germans; before that it was the Jews (Bolsheviks) killing the Russians and so on down the history lane.

It is just a thought of mine to find a reason for these agonizing conflicts going on and on forever. What would it take to finally stop the atrocities against each other? Would the Jews be satisfied and happy once they have all of Palestine as their homeland?
Could the Palestinians for their own good and survival finally comprehend that they have to let go and rather be assimilated by other Arab states?

Your thoughts on this, please.

A History of the Jews, a list of expulsions for 2000 years

 

[Zzarchov]

The Bolsheviks were not "Jews" for christs sake, one, they were communists and militantly athiest. They persecuted Jews too.

And before the Germans, it was actually Russian Pogroms, but they tended to be against any "outsiders" muslims, catholics, jews, anyone but eastern orthodox.


"The Jews" really don't care about "Palestine" as a land. They took it in a war for their survival and have been trying to give it back for years.

They gave back the Sinai (egypt wouldn't take gaza back too) which was half of Israeli occupied land for peace.

They unilaterally stopped occupying or in any way settling Gaza so Gaza could try and be its own nation, Gaza refused.



I also find it funny for a German to be saying maybe the Jews deserve to be persecuted everywhere they go.

In case you are forgetting Loon, German history hasn't been that fun in terms of being driven all over the place either.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

I haven't been here for a while and have by far not read all the posts, so it is possible that the following essay has already been posted here - in that case I apologize for repeating it.

This essay goes way back and lists all the persecutions of the Jewish people by Christians and non-Christians, with reasons of why given.

As it appears presently and in the recent history it seems the Jews are a domineering kind of people. If one considers however how over the past 2000 years the Jews have been treated, one cannot help but wonder, if these conflicts between Jews and other groups has developed something like a subconscious urge that carries itself through the generations to this very day... like a tit for tat.

Right now it is the Palestinians who bear the brunt of the Jews anger; before it was the Jews being persecuted by the Germans; before that it was the Jews (Bolsheviks) killing the Russians and so on down the history lane.

It is just a thought of mine to find a reason for these agonizing conflicts going on and on forever. What would it take to finally stop the atrocities against each other? Would the Jews be satisfied and happy once they have all of Palestine as their homeland?
Could the Palestinians for their own good and survival finally comprehend that they have to let go and rather be assimilated by other Arab states?

Your thoughts on this, please.

A History of the Jews, a list of expulsions for 2000 years

Dancing-loon:

“As it appears presently and in the recent history it seems the Jews are a domineering kind of people. If one considers however how over the past 2000 years the Jews have been treated, one cannot help but wonder, if these conflicts between Jews and other groups has developed something like a subconscious urge that carries itself through the generations to this very day... like a tit for tat.


Socrates the Greek:

As we see through out the history of the Arab Israeli conflict, we see that the Jews are out numbered 50 to 1 while the Arabs are occupying 640 times more land then the Jews. Naturally the Jews, like any other race would have to develop a way of communication that would declare them capable to stand up the 50 Arabs to 1 Jew.
Moreover given the bad treatment the Jews have received through the Holocaust and the constant bulling they are facing from countries like Iran, who by the way is not Arab, the Jews have no choice but to be affective on any assault against the Jewish people. Keep in mind that the Jews are a people with their back to the sea and their face is facing an enemy in the form of a venomous snake with multiple heads.
It is Natural for the Jews to defend their people.
Canada would have done the same if the US was an enemy with Russia at the same time.


Dancing-loon

“Right now it is the Palestinians who bear the brunt of the Jews anger; before it was the Jews being persecuted by the Germans; before that it was the Jews (Bolsheviks) killing the Russians and so on down the history lane.

Socrates the Greek
The only solution for peace in the Middle East is to take out the bullies like Iran and Arabs who hate the Jews should understand that 640 times more land then the Jews, that alone should tell the Arabs to smarten up. But deaf ears, because ¾ of the Arab world they still live in caves, tribal thinking, hypocritical, and CHAUVINISTIC TO BOOT.

You brought some good points up on your post Dancing –loon, great to be in this huge blogosphere. :smile:

 

[einmensch]

During the Russian revolution Jews were resposible for millions of deaths in Russia.Zz. I suggest you prove otherwise. Your Zionist opinion is worthless.
In the end if jews are successful they will kill each other--just as they cheat each other now. The Ashkenazi have already killed and suppressed other sects.
Jewish boys go to Hebrew school where they are indoctrinated and when they go to university they occupy a section in the cafeteria-Jews only. A matter of self defense? Many Jews are very kind people that work hard and contribute. Large numbers of Jews throughout the world se the Zionists for what they are. Zionists need democracies so that with banking wealth they are able to purchase poleticians and control countries such as the USA, Germany, Canada--- Arab countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Israel Saudi Arabia---rely on the Jewish controlled USA to keep the leaders in power. Abbas is the Palestinian
Jewish chosen one.

 

[Zzarchov]

You can't prove a negative numbnuts.

Their were people of Jewish descent in the Bolshevik party, obviously, it drew people from all over russia. They were however atheist, nor did they have any cultural ties to Jewish culture, they were just there. Like Christians descent and Muslim descent members.

The highest ranking "Jew" in the Bolshevik party was Trotsky and he got icepicked in the neck. Only 3 of the 21 members of the central comitee were Jewish.

I also wouldn't doubt that Jews may have had a slightly higher proportion of membership than Orthodox Slavic Russians, Jews (like Georgians, aka Stalin, and Muslims) were picked on quite harshly by the Czar and those groups no doubt fought in larger numbers.


"Jewish Bolshevism" is just nazi and white russian propaganda to try and draw support. If you wanna get technical, of Christians, Muslim and Jews, in Soviet Russia it was Jewish places of worship that were shut down in the highest percentage (edging out Muslims by 4 or 5% if I recall)