Israel...

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Z:As for the hellish conditions, sorry, it isn't that hellish, not according to those in Gaza on the BBC anyways.

eao:You mean like these BBC stories?

BBC


BBC


Most food and medicine coming into Gaza now comes by a network of tunnels linking Gaza to Egypt rather than through Israel.

BBC

If the tunnels were going toward Israel, then Israel might have a point. But all Gaza's tunnels lead to Egypt. Given Israel's refusal to allow sufficient food into Gaza, Gazans have no choice but to smuggle food through the tunnels just to feed themselves.

Israel doesn't claim they were attacked by the tunnels they destroyed or the people they killed. The tunnels are only a threat to Israel's ability to starve 1.4 million people into submission and their ability to control Gaza. Gaza already has plenty of guns.



As these tunnels become more numerous, its possible that Israel's control of the official border crossings will become irrelevant.

Now you would be hard pressed to find a story in the Canadian news about this ongoing crime against humanity unlike tragedy unfolding in the Congo. That's why it deserves attention on websites like this.

The "hellish conditions" you describe are being showcased by people who don't live there who view the nice Hamas view they are shown.

But its funny, if you followed my link, its actually people in Gaza talking. Why is there story so different?

How come there stories talk about how work is Hard since Hamas keeps firing people linked to other political parties and replacing htem with scabs for the half the cash?

Or how the tunnels are huge business and people think they want the borders closed to keep extorting them?

Or how really, they still have power (if sporadic) for free and they sure as hell aren't living on the dirt with a plastic tarp thrown over a tree branch eating a quarter of the food they need to survive.

You know, like in much of the world where they are dodging gunfire.

Did you read from the people in Gaza?

Its amazing how you consider their story inadmissible because it isnt as bad as other people who don't live there describe it.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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I read your link Z. What's your point? Gaza isn't so bad because people suffer chronic shortages of food, clothing and medicine, while the infrastructure collapses around them. Or perhaps you were encouraged by the part where people have no fuel to cook or electricity for lights. Were you were inspired by their lack of basic freedoms, denied justice and fundamental human rights? But if you think Gaza is such a wonderful place, why don't you move there. I suspect your attitude about what constitutes a hell on earth would change radically in a very short time.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Saint John, N.B.
Am I missing something here?

Gaza is Egyptian territory.

the Israelis would love to return it to the Egyptians.........it is their territory.

It is filled with people that hate Israel, so Israel has sealed it's border against them.

It is filled with people born on Egyptian territory, therefore it is filled with Egyptians, but Egypt has sealed it's border against its own people.

Somehow this is Israel's fault.

Am I missing something here?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Yes you are missing something C. Its called empathy for the suffering of fellow human beings.

Gaza is a prison with 1.7 million inmates. The prison guards are Israeli, not Egyptian. Israel invaded and occupied Gaza in 1967 and has controlled this territory ever since. Israel, not Egypt imposes an ecomomic blockade on Gazans. Israel not Egypt launches daily raids and assassinations in Gaza... That why its Israel and not Egypt which is responsible for Gaza. If Israel wants to give Gaza to Egypt, then they have to pull their soldier back to the Israeli side and let people, goods and services move freely between Gaza and Egypt. But when Israel restricts the free flow of good and services in and out of Gaza, that makes them an occupation force and therefore responsible for the health, safety and well being of Gazans.

Here is some personal testimony from inside Gaza:

Testimony: Israeli navy shoots and wounds fisherman off Gaza coast
Report, B'Tselem, 14 November 2008

Muhammad Jihad Rizeq Musleh, 18, is a fisherman and a resident of Rafah in the Gaza Strip. The testimony was given to Muhammad Sabah on 7 October 2008 at the European Hospital in the Gaza City:

I live in the Sultan neighborhood in Rafah with my parents, three brothers, and three sisters. In 2006, I began to work as a fisherman. My father taught me the trade and I worked with him for about two months. Then I went to work with Omar al-Bardawil. Omar has two boats, one a motorboat and the other a rowboat. When gas is available in the Strip, we use the motorboat, and when there isn't gas, we use the rowboat.

Two days ago [Sunday, 5 October], around 3:00am, I went fishing in the rowboat with Ahmad al-Bardawil, Omar's son. We rowed west about two kilometers from shore, with our back to the Rafah fishermen's port. At that point we were three kilometers from the Palestinian-Egyptian border. We knew the distances exactly because we have a GPS device.

We stopped by some rocks in the sea, where there are usually a lot of fishermen, and started to lower our fishing lines into the sea. We have a rope that that is 1,800 meters long and has floats and 600 hooks attached to it. We put bait on the hooks to catch different kinds of fish, like grouper and bream.

After we lowered 100 hooks, we saw an Israeli battleship approach us. When the ship was about 300 meters from us, the soldiers fired into the air and into the water near our boat. Ahmad and I pulled in the line and rowed north, toward the coast, to get away from the Israeli ship and go to another place to continue fishing. Next to us was another rowboat, with two fisherman, one of them Ahmad's cousin, Ali al-Bardawil, 20.

Our boat and the other boat rowed about 500 meters north, the Israeli ship continued to close in on us, to a distance of about 100 meters from us. It was frightening: the ship was huge and very tall, and the crew was firing in the air all the time.

I sat in the middle of the boat, rowing north. The soldiers fired into the water around the boat. Suddenly I felt pain in my left leg. I looked at my leg and saw I had been hit in the left shin. There was a hole and my leg was bleeding badly. I stopped rowing, told Ahmad I had been wounded, and lay down on my back. Ahmad rowed to get us out of there. The firing at us continued. The soldiers didn't say anything at all to us, at any stage.

Ahmad asked his cousin, who was in the other boat, to come over to our boat and help him row, so we'd get to shore as fast as possible. We reached the Rafah fishermen's port at 4:30am, which was about half an hour after I was hit.

At the port, Ahmad reported the incident to the naval police. They took me in their vehicle to the Red Crescent rescue station in Rafah. From there, I was taken by ambulance to Yusef al-Najar Hospital. When the doctors at the hospital saw I was severely wounded, they transferred me the same day to the European Hospital in Gaza City. There, the doctors told me there was an entry wound of two square centimeters and an exit wound of 10-15 square centimeters. They said the shot fractured my shinbone and severed arteries in my leg.

I was in surgery for more than four hours. The doctors tried to connect the arteries, but they failed, and the bleeding continued. So far, I have received six portions of blood in transfusions.

The doctors decided to transfer me to al-Muqassed Hospital, in Jerusalem. They prepared the referral documents, and I am waiting for the answer of the Palestinian Ministry of Health, which coordinates these matters with the Israelis. They doctors said I had to go to hospital in Jerusalem to save the leg from amputation.

I don't understand why the naval soldiers fired at me and Ahmad. All we wanted to do was fish to put food on our families' table, given the hard financial conditions we live in. We had a GPS device and knew we were in an area in which fishing is permitted. We didn't endanger the soldiers and didn't have anything in the boat other than hook-lines and bait.

We fish regularly in this area, and this is the first time we had any problems. My great fear is that they'll have to amputate my leg, leaving me disabled for the rest of my life.

ei: Testimony: Israeli navy shoots and wounds fisherman off Gaza coast

Israel continues to coerce Gaza patients into collaboration
Press release, Al Mezan, 12 November 2008

The Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) continue to blackmail Palestinian patients who need to travel for treatment in Israeli hospitals or Palestinian hospitals in the West Bank. They seek to travel outside Gaza due to the deteriorating conditions of the Palestinian health system there, which is unable to deal with their critical medical conditions. Such practices of the IOF continue on a semi-regular basis amidst the ongoing, tight siege imposed on the Gaza Strip and the continued silence of the international community.

According to Al Mezan field investigations, Khalid Abu Shammala, 38, passed away on Tuesday morning, 28 October 2008, after he was denied access to a hospital. The IOF at Erez asked him to collaborate with them otherwise he would not go through to the West Bank. Abu Shammala underwent a surgery to plant a supporting rod in his coronary artery in early 2006 in Ein Shams Hospital in Cairo, Egypt. His medical condition started deteriorating in July 2007 as an obstruction was detected inside the planted rod. It is noteworthy that the deceased was married with four children.

Abu Shammala was granted a referral to receive treatment in an Israeli hospital in late July 2007. He started to coordinate his travel through Erez Crossing. On Tuesday, 9 September 2008, he was interviewed by Israeli intelligence at the crossing. He was called for an interview despite his critical medical condition. He suffered from abdominal bloating due to liver malfunction.

During the interview, an Israeli officer told him that he was allowed to travel. However, while Abu Shammala was on his way home, the same officer called him and said that their conversation did not finish and asked him to return to his office on the following day. Abu Shammala tried to explain that he could not return because of his critical medical condition, however, the officer insisted that he returns, otherwise he would not be allowed to pass. On the following day, Abu Shammala went to the intelligence office at the crossing. To his surprise, the Israeli officer asked him to collaborate with him and he would be granted access to the hospital in Israel. When Abu Shammala rejected his offer, the intelligence officer told him to go home, saying, "Khalid, God cures. Go back to Gaza to receive treatment."

The deceased refused to collaborate with the Israeli intelligence and sought to obtain another medical referral to a different hospital. He secured another referral to Palestine Hospital in Cairo but he could not travel out of Gaza because the borders were closed. He stayed at the European Gaza Hospital during this time until he was announced dead at around 8:00am on Tuesday, 28 October 2008.

It is noteworthy that a press conference was held by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel (PHR-Israel) on Monday, 4 August 2008. They announced that Israeli security agents put pressure on a number of Palestinian patients who need treatment in Israeli hospitals. Patients are asked to collaborate with those agents as informers.

PHR-Israel said that it documented over 30 cases of Gaza patients who needed treatment in Israel but were returned to the Strip when they refused to collaborate with the Israeli security agents. The cases include cancer patients and heart patients who need treatment that is unavailable in the Gaza Strip.
Al Mezan Center for Human Rights condemns the blackmail policy applied by the IOF, whereby security agents bargain patients for their right to life and life-saving medical treatment. The Center emphasizes that Abu Shammala was not the first case and warns that it will not be the last if the international community continues to fail to protect the life of civilians in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) and put an end to the tight siege imposed on Gaza.

Therefore, Al Mezan Center for Human Rights once again calls the international community to take immediate action and assume its legal and ethical responsibility for civilians in the OPT in general and the Gaza Strip in particular. The international community has a duty to end the tightened siege, which represents one of the worst forms of collective punishments according to the rules of international humanitarian law.

ei: Israel continues to coerce Gaza patients into collaboration

Testimony: Twelve-year-old beaten and imprisoned with adults
Report, B'Tselem, 11 November 2008


Muhammad Khawajah at his family's grocery store in Nilin, 18 October 2008. (Iyad Hadad/B'Tselem)
Muhammad Salah Muhammad Khawajah, 12, is a student and a resident of Nilin in the Ramallah District. His testimony was given to Iyad Hadad on 18 September 2008 at the witness's home:

I live with my family in Nilin. We live on the ground floor of the house, my two uncles and their families live on the first floor, and my grandmother lives on the second floor.

Last Thursday [11 September] around 3:00am, I woke up from my mother's shouts. She was shouting, "Get up! Get up! The army is here!" My father wasn't home that night. I got up and went out with her to the inner courtyard of the house. There were about 12 soldiers there, and their faces were painted black. One soldier wore a black hat that covered his face. He sat on the stairs outside the house and didn't take part. I think he was a collaborator who led them to houses.

The soldiers were on the first floor. I heard them tell my Uncle Sami to direct them to our floor. One of the soldiers asked, "Where is Muhammad?" and I realized he was asking about me. The soldier told my uncle to call me, so he did. I started walking towards them. Two soldiers grabbed me and took me outside. I realized they wanted to arrest me. I was afraid, and began to cry, and called my uncle to come with me.

The soldiers cuffed my hands tight with plastic handcuffs, which hurt a lot. A soldier grabbed me by the shirt from behind and started walking and pushing me forward. The shirt was up against my neck and I couldn't breathe properly. I tried to free myself, and he punched me in the back and pulled the shirt tighter, choking me even more. Another soldier also punched me and pulled my hair as we walked. I cried and called out for my uncle and my father. The soldiers hit me and said, "Quiet! Quiet!" They led me to an alleyway between the houses, where there are cactuses. We were walking by some cactuses and then one of the soldiers pushed me into them. The thorns pricked me in the hands and legs. The soldiers kept on pushing me forward and hitting me along the way.

While we were walking, children from the village began to throw stones at the soldiers. It felt like it was raining stones. The soldiers were confused. Some of them ran off, and the others pushed me to move faster, and I fell down. One soldier started dragging me along the ground, on my stomach, with my hands tied. The ground was full of stones, gravel, and dirt. He pulled me by my hands and I cried and shouted. He told me to shut up. He wanted to pull me faster, to get away from the stones. He dragged me a few meters, until we were behind a wall. It felt like my right knee and the palms of my hands were injured. My knee was bleeding.

Some soldiers fired tear gas in the direction of the stone throwers. The grenade fell not far from me and I started coughing and crying. My eyes were burning. We started walking again, the soldiers pushing me from behind. We got to a house in the village, about 400 meters away, and they broke in. It was the house of Abd al-Rahman Luai Abd al-Halim, 14, who goes to school with me. They arrested him and his cousin, Sufian Nawaf al-Khawajah, 18. They took the three of us to the village center, about 400 meters from my house, and made us stand facing a shop with our hands raised. Abd al-Rahman and Sufian were handcuffed as well. The soldiers beat us and knocked us to the ground. We lay there and they stepped on us, on our heads and stomach, for a few minutes. Then they stood us on our feet and pushed us toward the entrance to the village. A soldier was behind each of us, holding each one by the shirt.

Every now and then the soldiers punched and kicked us. One soldier was angry at me in particular. He beat and strangled me, as if he wanted to kill me. I think some of the soldiers had been hit by the stones thrown by the children. I shouted and cried, I was so scared. It was still dark out. They led us about one kilometer, to the junction that leads to the Nili settlement. There were lots of army jeeps at the junction. The soldiers blindfolded me and put me into a jeep. It was about an hour after they had arrested me. The jeep began to move. I didn't know where it was going.

I sat on the floor of the jeep, without any soldiers next to me. After about half an hour, maybe an hour, of driving, the jeep stopped, and the soldiers took me out of it. I could see a bit through the blindfold. I didn't know where I was, but it was an army base. I saw another two jeeps pull up. They took Abd al-Rahman out of one and Sufian out of the other.

Then they drove us somewhere else. There they sat us down on benches, and after ten minutes they called us in for questioning, one after the other. Abd al-Rahman went first and his questioning lasted for about 20 minutes. Then I went into the room and they took off my blindfold. I saw a man in civilian clothes. He was stout, with a round face and fair skin. He was wearing a skullcap. He said his name was Captain Sasson, and I also heard other people call him that. He sat me down next to his table and asked me questions about children from the village. He showed me pictures from a thick photo album, which had about 200 photos. He asked me about some children again and again, and I told him I didn't know them. Then he stopped asking me about them and showed me three pictures of myself, holding a slingshot in a demonstration against the separation fence. I admitted that it was me, but I kept on saying that I didn't know the other children. Then he hit me in the back with a plastic stool. I cried and shouted, and he hit me twice in the leg with a wooden stick.

A soldier who had a pistol on his hip ordered me to get up and face the window or the closet. There was a camera fixed in place in front of me. He took my picture, and then the interrogator told me to sign, with my fingerprint, a page with Hebrew writing. I don't know what it said. The soldier didn't read it to me. I assume it was a confession. I had to sign, because I was afraid he would beat me. The interrogator took prints of all my fingers, and then told the soldier to blindfold me again. He took me out of the room and sat me down on the bench outside. The interrogation had taken about half an hour. Then they took Sufian in, also for about half an hour.

Then they put the three of us in a big patrol van, and after driving for about quarter of an hour, they took us out and removed the blindfolds. I saw a sign that said "Ofer," and I realized we were in Ofer Prison. They took us into a room where they search people. They took off our clothes and a doctor examined us. They gave us bags with pants, a shirt, and flip-flops. They arrested Sufian and put him in a detention room. A policeman in a blue uniform [of the regular police] spoke with the soldiers. I understood that he was telling them to release us. He said to us, in Arabic, "You are small children and should be released."

They kept Abd al-Rahman and me outside the detention room and then returned us to the van. Our hands were still cuffed. After about 20 minutes, they brought each one of us a container of Jello. They removed the cuffs and let us eat. About half an hour later, they put the cuffs back on.

Two soldiers were guarding us in the van. We weren't allowed to talk to each other. Whenever we said something, a soldier told us to shut up. It was very hot in the van, and we were sweating a lot. They didn't give us anything to eat or drink. They did let us go to the bathroom, removing the handcuffs and putting them back on when we returned.

We stayed like that until after the muezzin called worshipers to evening prayers, around 8:00pm. Then they took us to another camp. I think it was the Beit Sira camp.

At the camp, they gave us a chocolate drink and put us in a small room with green army mattresses. There weren't any beds. The cuffs were loose now, so we took them off, drank the chocolate drink and went to sleep.

The next morning, at 10:00, they put us in a patrol van and cuffed our hands again, but this time they didn't blindfold us. They took us back to Ofer Prison and put us in the tent section, Department 2, which had 83 detainees, of all ages. Each department had four tents, with about 20 detainees in each.

The detainees treated us well. They gave us candy, chocolate and potato chips. I felt comfortable. I fasted during the day and played soccer and tennis. The Department had TVs, one in each tent. I saw kids' programs during the day and a Syrian show, "Bab al-Hara," at night. A detainee helped me ask for the doctor to treat my leg. They took me to the clinic and the doctor put iodine on my knee wound and bandaged it.

At first, I was afraid and cried sometimes, because my family was far away. I've never been detained before. It was a new experience for me. I didn't know anything about detention before then. I don't know why they detained me -- the whole village and all the children took part in the demonstrations, so why did they pick me?

The adult detainees took care of me because I was the youngest detainee in the Department, and they decided to make me assistant to the sergeant of the Department.

I would wake up every morning at 6:00 and call to the detainees: "Let's go! Time for the count!" They would get up and then the soldiers would come in and count them. I stood next to the soldiers as they counted. The soldiers treated me with respect and asked the older detainees to take care of me. The Department sergeant always helped me. He was older than most of the other detainees and spoke Hebrew. We worked together, helping the detainees and submitting their requests to the prison officials and to the guards.

On Sunday morning [14 September], at 6:00, I was taken to court together with Abd al-Rahman. Before we left for court, they shackled our hands and legs with handcuffs and iron chains. When we got there, they put us in a small room to wait until the hearing began, at 2:00pm. We didn't ask for food or drink because we were fasting.

When the time for the hearing came, they took us into the courtroom, the two of us handcuffed. My father was there and so was a man from B'Tselem. Later, I learned that his name was Iyad Hadad. Other people also came to the hearing, and it made me feel good to see them. I was very happy to see my father, but the soldiers didn't let me hug him or even touch his hand.

An Israeli lawyer defended me. I don't know her name. She asked that I be released on bond and the judge granted the request, but set bond at 3,000 shekels [US$800]. My father didn't have the money, so we couldn't pay.

After the hearing, they took me back into detention. The next day, my father managed to borrow the money for the bond, and I was released on condition that I return to a hearing on Tuesday [16 September]. I went home to my parents and family. I was very happy. I went to the medical clinic in the village because my neck and shoulder hurt, and also because of the scratches and wound to my knee. They examined me and treated me. They told me to rest for a week and to come back for follow-up.

My father went with me to the hearing on Tuesday. The hearing was postponed until 21 October 2008.

Since I got released, I've had problems. I wake up at night in fear and I can hardly sleep. I went to a psychologist called Khaled Shahawan and he gave me medicine and sedatives. I feel that it's hard to concentrate in school. Last year my grade average was 94.

ei: Testimony: Twelve-year-old beaten and imprisoned with adults
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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C, perhaps you can explain why you believe Egypt is responsible for crimes like this:

Remembering Beit Hanoun

Sameh A. Habeeb writing from occupied Gaza Strip, Live from Palestine, 21 October 2008


Relatives of those killed in Beit Hanoun mourn for their loved ones, November 2006. (Sameh A. Habeeb)

In November 2006 a horrible war crime was committed in the Gaza Strip by the Israeli army. The operation was not directed at militants who were heading to fight Israel, but at a poor family. This action was committed by the same Israeli army which bulldozed Palestinian farms and crushed cars and houses. I remember every single detail of what happened that day in Beit Hanoun. I want to tell the story again as I am encouraged, but not satisfied by what Archbishop Desmond Tutu said after his investigative visit to Gaza. Although he was too late to investigate the massacre that occurred two years before, it was better than nothing. Tutu indirectly indicted Israel and held it responsible for the death of civilians.

The investigation helped me to remember what I witnessed that day. I went there quickly and I saw a slaughter. Blood was on walls, adjacent houses, the street and all around. The smell of Israel's spent artillery shells mixed with the blood and burned flesh of children and old people. Women, men, old people and children were lamenting and weeping. Around 18 civilians were killed that day in addition to injuring many others. Those who remained alive either lost limbs or suffered other severe injuries.

I had to revive this horrific account again because so many people have not heard of it, nor were they correctly informed of the slaughter. The following is the testimony I wrote two days after I witnessed the massacre's aftermath.

Accounts and witnesses

We entered the street; house number 71 has a sad story as well as all other houses in the area. It is the house of Bassem al-Kafarnah. He was killed at his own doorstep while calling for an ambulance for the injured who were scattered all over the street. Bassem is the father of five little girls; the eldest of them is seven years old and the mother is about to give birth to her sixth baby. We are not sure that when she delivers her baby she can also unburden her sadness and wounds from the loss of her husband, who left her alone; a prayer for her pains and fears over her six weak children who rely on God and then her for support.

An artillery shell destroyed the entrance of the house. It broke the inner walls, killing Bassem and buried his children's dreams. The scene ended here, or maybe it just began; five children who did not yet realize the true meaning of life, but gulped the bitterness of death and lived it with every tiny detail and lineament.

The next house belongs to Mrs. Nema al-Athamnah. She was killed with her daughter Sana and daughter-in-law, Nehad. Nema and Sana were both widows and they were the only remaining hope for their children, who are now orphans. Now that hope is buried with the two mothers. Nehad and her four children were all injured, three of them are still hospitalized after losing their limbs.

Mrs. al-Athamnah's daughter Umaya was also injured. She lost a leg and the other was smashed while her hand was broken and she is undergoing treatment in Egypt. Her husband, Sameer, was killed. Their daughter Malak, or angel, was injured by flying debris and shrapnel which scarred her lovely face.

Umaya's brother, Iyad, has injuries to both his legs and he may never be able to walk again. His wife Inas is still hospitalized and is recovering from her wounds and burns. Their son Ahmad has a critical head injury, may God save him.

A group of women gathered around me. Each of them is trying to tell her piece of the story. Nisreen, Nema's daughter, explained that "My mother, Manal, and Fatima Masoud, the three of them turned to piles of burnt and torn flesh. We collected what was left of them from the walls, doors and trees, and then put them in buckets carrying their names. We recognized them from pieces of their clothes which were stuck to their burned flesh."

We moved to the next house, expecting different stories, but they sounded similar. The only difference was the amount of death. A sandy path separates the houses of the brothers Saad and Masoud al-Athamnah from that of their cousin. Nine shells hit the house. Yes, nine.

The first shell struck the house between the second and third floors, leaving three generations of one family a mixture of burnt flesh and crushed bones. The victims were: the grandmother, Fatima al-Athamnah, 78 years old, her son Masoud, 52 years old, Masoud's son Samir Masoud, 23 years old, his daughter Fatima, 18 years old, and his second wife Sabah, 40 years old. They were living a simple life, but the last moments were catastrophic. They didn't die peacefully; they screamed, and called for help, and tried to escape the savage weapon, which pursued them until it pulled their souls away ruthlessly. It turned them into pieces and deprived them of any peace in their last moments.

When the rest of the neighborhood's 30 residents heard the explosion of the first shell, they rushed to the street, that sandy path, and there a new chapter of the tragedy occurred. The shell hit the wall of the second floor and exploded into burning shrapnel, blazing iron polluted with radiant substances dissolved the flesh. The second shell killed the sons of Saad and Hayat al-Athamnah: Muhammad, 16 years old, Mahdi, 17 years old, and Arafat, 18 years old.

Hayat al-Athamnah stoically told the story of of her departed children:
I saw Mahdi, his head was wide open and I could see his brain lying to his side. I called him, but received no answer, so I said, may God rest your soul. I then saw my son, Muhammad. His body was burned out and deformed and I called him, but only silence answered me, so I said, "May God rest your soul."

I ran out from the shelling to a nearby alley; there I found my son Arafat. The lower half of his body was completely ruptured and his guts were dangling on the ground. I said Arafat, my baby, sweetheart, go with your brothers, they have all left, he pulled his head up and looked at himself then he started collecting his flesh and put it on what remained of his abdomen.

Yes, he was alive and looking at me. He then passed away in the hospital.​
The shelling continued. Another shell hit the balcony of the fourth-floor room where Hayat's grandson Mahmoud Majdi al-Athamnah, 12 years old, was sleeping, killing him. Another one smashed through the roof, killing Mahmoud's cousin Ahmad, 10 years old.

Another shell, and then another. Each time with new victims: Manal, the wife of Ramiz Masoud, 26 years old, killed with her two daughters, Maysa, nine months old, and Maram, three years old. Their brother Abdullah lost his left hand and is still hospitalized. Hayat al-Athamnah explained that "We found the head of Maram at the entrance of the path and the body was at the other end."

Mohammed al-Athamnah, the cousin of Saad and Masoud al-Athamnah, had rushed to the scene to call for an ambulance. Instead, they carried his dead body away and those of the five children.

Hayat al-Athamnah listed the injuries while her husband and their son, Abdul Mohaymen, were in an Egyptian hospital in critical condition. Injured in the back and neck, they have many wounds from shrapnel. The hand of her grandson Muhammad was severed and remained on the ground of the horrible sandy path long before somebody took it away. She said that "I saw the hand of Muhammad on the floor. I recognized it from his watch, which was warped around it; it was also carrying a mobile phone and a hand bag."

Sameh A. Habeeb is a photojournalist, humanitarian and peace
activist based in Gaza, Palestine. He writes for several news websites on a freelance basis.


ei: Remembering Beit Hanoun

Or may you can explain C, how Egypt is responsible for these crimes?

Mending the broken wing
Abdallah Mesleh writing from Nilin, occupied West Bank, Live from Palestine, 14 November 2008


Palestinians harvest olives in the village of Kafr Nima near the West Bank city of Ramallah. (Khaleel Reash/MaanImages)

Thousands of hectares of land have been confiscated, hundreds of olive trees were uprooted and tens of thousands of trees were burned at the hands of Israeli occupying forces. In Palestinian villages, where social and economic development is sustained from the land, the villagers are left asking: What's left for next generations?!

The olive harvest in Palestine is a special occasion in Palestinian life that reveals the importance of the land and the olive tree in the past, present, and the future of Palestinians. Palestinians depend on the olive harvest, and it has come to reflect a wonderful image of self-sufficiency and Palestinian social unity.

For 500 years my family has harvested olives. Our trees have been passed from one generation to the next. Each year, generations of my family have gathered to pick from our trees. Each generation, like each branch that grows from our family's trees, is considered a gift.

But today, the olive harvest in my village, Nilin, located in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, is no longer the wonderful occasion for families to come together and express their deep relation of solidarity and love for each other and for their land.

Throughout Palestine the olive harvest is changing. It is no longer that beautiful chance for children to play with their toys under the green olive trees, to have their meals in the shade and comfort provided by the toil of their ancestors, it is no longer that occasion which might sometimes be the only source of their innocent joy and entertainment.

The olive harvest has become a source of sorrow and worries for many Palestinians- not only because of Israel's apartheid wall, which cuts through our villages, standing as a barrier preventing us from reaching our beloved and sacred trees -- but because of the barbarism of armed settlers, who have destroyed the nature of the harvest by attacking olive farmers and their families.

Volunteers and first-aid teams have played an important role during the many years of occupation and they are still playing a major part in the popular struggle. But now, without the support of first-aid teams and volunteers many Palestinians would be unable to reach their olives.

On 10 October, I joined the ambulances of the Palestine Red Crescent Society and Palestinian Medical Relief Committees while they worked to protect residents of Nilin during the first day of the olive harvest.

The ambulances and medical teams were not allowed to enter the village as dozens of Israeli occupying forces soldiers blocked the entrance to the village, declaring Nilin a closed military zone. This is the standard declaration when Israeli occupying forces want to close a village, and even though we are there to administer aid, as doctors and first-aid workers, we are not guaranteed access to the wounded, nor are we protected by the same laws that protect international humanitarian aid workers, because we carry a Palestinian ID.

We succeed in entering the village by taking a different and longer route to reach a back entrance, but we also lose precious time and energy.

As the villagers approached the trees that are close to the wall, the soldiers launched tear gas grenades from all directions. As a result, we treated many cases of suffocation by inhalation of tear gas, which causes irritation of the nose and upper respiratory track leading to breathing difficulties, severe lacrimation and eye irritation, inability to stand and walk, and/or general weakness.

Many residents and activists suffered these effects. After inhaling the gas, a young boy who was picking olives with his family fell out of a tree. He was transferred to the hospital in Ramallah for further treatment. The other serious danger tear gas poses is that one can be hit by a tear gas canisters, which are fired from guns, in the face, arm or the abdomen. This was the case of an Israeli activist; the canister struck his arm and abdomen with double impact causing bruises, scratches and superficial burns. We performed a right arm x-ray to rule out possible fractures.

But despite the violence of the Israeli occupying forces, one of the biggest problems the first-aid teams faced was the relatively long distance to the village's major healthcare centers, which is further complicated by having to travel through rough bumpy agricultural roads. This means it takes more time to reach the healthcare center and risks aggravating the head and back of people who are already injured. Palestinian aid teams and ambulances are also routinely stopped, inspected, interrogated, and delayed by Israeli occupation forces from reaching their destination, which not only discourages workers in the field, but also poses a serious risk to the patients in need of transport and urgent care.

First aid workers are also commonly used as human shields. On the first day of the olive harvest in Nilin the ambulances I was working with were attacked by Israeli soldiers who used as human shields to protect them as they fired on the villagers. We wanted to leave the area but we were threatened with force by the soldiers who stopped the ambulances and forced us to stay in front of them. We were interrogated and the soldiers inspected the ambulances, looking for injured people and villagers. Finally, we were asked to leave the area and told not to return.

Working in the medical field in Palestine is not an easy or safe mission. On top of the difficulties we face, the lack of equipment, and many other obstacles, we also confront the pain of our collective Palestinian body; but this pain is also a joy. It is the eternal feeling of pride to the land and the passion for its soil and sky, it is the source of resistance for the sons and daughters of Palestine to stand and wipe its tears away until that joyous day when we can reclaim our homeland. The olive tree will stay the sign of peace for every Palestinian and a witness to the crimes of this occupation. When blood is mixed with tears it is the call of duty and humanity waiting for all of us as doctors, paramedics, and first-aid workers because we remain the last hope for broken wings to fly.

A proud resident of the West Bank village of Nilin, Abdallah Mesleh is currently a medical intern at Palestinian hospitals and abroad. He has been picking olives every October for as long as he can remember.

ei: Mending the broken wing
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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Yes you are missing something C. Its called empathy for the suffering of fellow human beings.

I could say the same to you, you so keen to ignore the facts and blame Israel that you have no empathy for the peoples suffering and who you need to look to to fix it.

Gaza is a prison with 1.7 million inmates. The prison guards are Israeli, not Egyptian.

Really? Reality seems to disagree with you.


Huh, those look like Egyptian uniforms to me, and a quick search recalls, yes, in fact those guards ARE Egyptian.

Egyptians seal border with Gaza - Middle East, World - The Independent

Israel invaded and occupied Gaza in 1967 and has controlled this territory ever since.

Really? Does it have any troops or settlers in Gaza now? No?

Then I guess you can say it stopped occupying this Egyptian territory. Its also not at war with Egypt. What happened to the rest of the Egyptian territory it occupied? Oh ya, left it too. And its in Egyptian hands.

Why I wonder, doesn't Egypt take back Gaza, couldn't be because Hamas and its brother organizations keeps trying to help overthrow the Egyptian government?

Israel, not Egypt imposes an ecomomic blockade on Gazans.

Im sorry, who was that I just showed enforcing the blockade? Oh ya, Egypt. Not only that, economic sanctions and blockades are how the UN says you should solve problems instead of war.

Israel not Egypt launches daily raids and assassinations in Gaza...

And who is launching daily rocket fire into Israel? Thats right, Hamas. From unnoccupied Egyptian territory.

That why its Israel and not Egypt which is responsible for Gaza.
Thats why Gaza is responsible for Gaza.

If Israel wants to give Gaza to Egypt, then they have to pull their soldier back to the Israeli side and let people, goods and services move freely between Gaza and Egypt.
Israeli soldiers ARE on the Israeli side. And Egypt is free to do as it wishes, Egypt doesn't want people, services or goods to move freely between Gaza and the rest of Egypt. Egypt doesn't like the terrorists in Gaza either. It seems sociopathic murderers aren't welcomed anywhere.

Egypt doesn't want Gaza back, it made that clear when it only wanted the rest of the Sinai.

But when Israel restricts the free flow of good and services in and out of Gaza, that makes them an occupation force and therefore responsible for the health, safety and well being of Gazans.

No it doesn't, it means they have the right to restrict the goods through their borders however they see fit.

Does Canada occupy the USA because we don't let them bring various goods over? Do we occupy North Korea because we don't trade with them?

I guess that makes Egypt and occupying force of Gaza, because Egypt also restricts the flow of goods in Gaza. Perhaps Gaza needs to play nice it wants to rely on trade to be sustainable.

Here is some personal testimony from inside Gaza:

You already discounted the validity of quotes from people in Gaza earlier, you can't bring them in now.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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As per the terms of the 1979 peace agreement, Egypt has no authority in Gaza and recognizes Gaza as Israeli occupied territory.

All goods moving between Gaza and Egypt must go through Kerem Shalom which is controlled by Israel and closed in violation of the disengagement agreement and the current truce with Hamas.

People moving between Gaza and Egypt can cross at Rafah, but only when Israel has monitors present. Israel has removed its monitors from Rafah in violation of the disengagement agreement and the current truce with Hamas. As a result Egypt cannot allow people to enter or leave Gaza.

If Egypt breaks these agreements with Israel it would violate the peace treaty and risk war. It would also risk the billions in military and economic support (bribes) Egypt gets from the US each year for maintaining peace with Israel.

Gaza has no functional airport or seaport because the air and sea is controlled by Israel.

References:
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2412
ei: The siege on the Gaza Strip
http://domino.un.org/pdfs/AMA_OneYearOn.pdf

Effectively Israel controls Gaza's borders.

For a short time earlier this year, Hamas knocked down the barrier between Egypt and Gaza. During that time, Gazans moved freely between Egypt and Gaza. But Israel put pressure on Egypt to put the barriers back up or risk loosing their American bribes. Likely while the barrier was down, the US halted aid to Egypt.

Tough choices follow Gaza breakout

By Jonathan Marcus
BBC diplomatic correspondent



The border breach has put Egypt in a precarious position


A little over a week ago the status quo that has dominated the lives of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip was breached in a series of dramatic explosions along the border fence with Egypt. A human wave surged across the frontier, eager to obtain basic supplies and other goods that were unobtainable in the Gaza Strip itself. No wonder then that leading Israeli commentators have described the Gaza break-out as a turning point in the complex relationship linking Israel, Egypt and the Hamas regime in Gaza....



...Here, though, lies the dilemma for Egypt.

It is no friend of Hamas, which is closely related to the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood opposition inside Egypt itself.
There are also fears about radical Palestinian factions moving into Sinai and possibly mounting attacks into Israel from Egyptian soil.
The government in Cairo, then, is torn between its own security concerns, its understandable desire to relieve Palestinian hardship (itself a response to popular pressure in Egypt) and the need to manage its increasingly fragile relationship with Israel.
Egypt does not want to shoulder the responsibility of the Rafah checkpoint alone.
Ideally, the Egyptians would like to see European Union observers return to monitor the crossing-point. "We need the Europeans," says Abdel Monem Said Aly, "because the last arrangement with Israel required them to be there, but also because otherwise Egypt alone will carry the whole responsibility. We need someone else to be there to act as referee."...

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Tough choices follow Gaza breakout

As per the terms of the 1979 peace agreement, Egypt is not allowed to put more than a few hundred policemen and border guards along the border with Israel/Gaza. As a result, Egypt has only enough people to monitor the official border crossings and can little to nothing about controlling the smuggling through the tunnels between Gaza and Egypt. I doubt Egypt has any plans to ask Israel if it can post more police and guards along the border. Effectively the border between Gaza and Egypt is open, but limited. Small things like people, weapons and money can move freely, but bulk items like diesel fuel and food is limited. The tunnels are also the only source of taxes for Hamas, since Israel collects and withholds all tax revenue on goods moving through the official border crossings... when they are open which is almost never.
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
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People can read the testimony of Gazans above decide for themselves whether or not these people are oppressed and suffer injustice. At a minimum they are well written and enlightening which is why they are worth reading.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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Actually, Above that I posted the direct words of Gaza as quoted from a reliable news source in a direct interview and how they weren't suffering to great levels.

You ignored that EAO.


I should also point out, How is Gaza and occupied territory. WHo is it occupied from now that Egypt passed claim.

Kind of an impossible paradox isn't it?


So please tell me, with Egypt abandoning its own people because it doesn't want to deal with them, exactly who is Gaza occupied from?

And who is occupying it? Israel has no one in it to occupy it, and no one claims ownership for them to occupy it from even if they did.

Its just a legal gerrymandering to make Israel the badguy because no one wants to deal with Gaza. Its an "occupation forever" role by telling Israel you can't make them citizens and you can't leave, your stuck being the bad guy forever.


Its one of many such head-desking stupidities, take this sad story:

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Eviction in battle for East Jerusalem

I really feel for the old couple, but wait a minute.

They are Palestinian, in east Jerusalem. They are settlers in what was to them an occupied territory.

They built an illegal settlement in occupied territory where someone else owned the land and now claim its wrong to have someone else built an "illegal settlement" in occupied territory (just because these new Jewish owners have the actual original deed before they were kicked out to make way for Palestinian Settlers)

Apparently the illegal occupation of East Jerusalem by Palestinians became legal the second they lost control.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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I also note you point out that Egypt does want to seal the border with Palestine, the restriction to how many soldiers it can keep there is the only reason it doesn't have more.

Seems like yes, other people are involved in blockading Gaza, aka the Egyptians who want more soldiers on the border to lock it down even further (hencing wanting European support)
 

Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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I read your link Z. What's your point? Gaza isn't so bad because people suffer chronic shortages of food, clothing and medicine, while the infrastructure collapses around them. Or perhaps you were encouraged by the part where people have no fuel to cook or electricity for lights. Were you were inspired by their lack of basic freedoms, denied justice and fundamental human rights? But if you think Gaza is such a wonderful place, why don't you move there. I suspect your attitude about what constitutes a hell on earth would change radically in a very short time.


That Gaza is not a wonderful place is not controversial. The question is why is not a wonderful place, and what needs to be done to make it a wonderful place.

Maybe a small first step would be to stop firing rockets at Israel on a regular basis. You know, those crude useless ones that never hurt anyone anyway? As demonstrated quite clearly by the events of the first two weeks of this truce, Israel did open the border. Several times. Only to have rockets fired at them. You know, those crude useless ones that never hurt anyone anyway? How smart is that?

I don't see how anybody can get around placing the blame for Gazan suffering square at the feet of Hamas and the splinter Jihadi groups whose goal is the destruction of Israel at any cost. They are responsible for and don't care about the suffering of the Gazan people.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Sabra, Shatila and Collective Amnesia

by Gilad Atzmon / November 15th, 2008 (4)
Waltz With Bashir is a breath-taking new Israeli film, an animated documentary directed by Ari Folman.
In 1982, Folman was a 19-year-old IDF infantry soldier. Twenty four years later, in 2006, Folman is surprised to find out that he does not remember a thing from that war or the massacres in Sabra and Shatila. The film is a journey into Folman’s lost past.
The documentary is set as a chain of animated interviews and conversations between Folman and his military associates, psychologists and Ron Ben Yishai, the legendary Israeli TV reporter who was among the first to …
(Full article …)
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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That Gaza is not a wonderful place is not controversial. The question is why is not a wonderful place, and what needs to be done to make it a wonderful place.

Maybe a small first step would be to stop firing rockets at Israel on a regular basis. You know, those crude useless ones that never hurt anyone anyway? As demonstrated quite clearly by the events of the first two weeks of this truce, Israel did open the border. Several times. Only to have rockets fired at them. You know, those crude useless ones that never hurt anyone anyway? How smart is that?

I don't see how anybody can get around placing the blame for Gazan suffering square at the feet of Hamas and the splinter Jihadi groups whose goal is the destruction of Israel at any cost. They are responsible for and don't care about the suffering of the Gazan people.

Hamas got all the Islamic groups to agree to a ceasefire on condition that Israel would stop their attacks, open Gaza's borders to the Egypt and stop building Jewish only settlements on land recognized by the UN (and Israel) as reserved for a future Palestinian state. Once the deal was signed, Gaza fisherman and farmers tried to return to work but were attacked by the Israeli military. A story I posted above is about a fisherman who was shot in the leg by the Israeli military and is probably going to have it amputated. One of the farmers was found shot dead in his field. Its unclear who killed him, but the evidence suggests an Israeli sniper. Israel announced the construction of hundreds of new homes on disputed land. Israel did open the border, but hardly enough to allow Gazans to feed themselves, run an import/export business, fix infrastructure destroyed by Israel or fuel to generate electricty 24 hours a day.

Does any of this sound like a ceasefire violation?

Yet the resistance groups never fired a single missile at Israel until Israel assassinated one of their leaders. Islamic Jihad specifically agreed to the ceasefire on condition that they were not attacked by Israel. A week into the ceasefire Israel assassinated one of their leaders. In response IJ fired a bunch of missiles back at Israel.

The headlines in our news only mentioned Islamic Jihad's rocket attack, not the Israeli ceasefire violations which preceded the attack. Understandably most people in Canada don't see this conflict in a balanced way, because they only hear the Israeli side. Sure the rocket attack was a violation. But it would not have happened if Israel hadn't assassinated an IJ leader.

What that incident prroves is that Israel's leaders aren't interested in a total ceasefire. What they want is the right to keep assassinating Palestinian leaders, confiscating land recognized by the UN (and Israel) as reserved for a Palestinian state, while Hamas and the other militant groups fight amongst themselves.

Regarding the objectivity of JTF and Z, these two will never recognize that Israel is capable of doing any wrong. When Israel's military kidnaps and abuse a 12 year old child, (see story above), they ignore the story completely like it didn't happen.

The ignore completely Israel's ongoing and routine use of Palestinian civilians as human shields:
HRW: "Israel: Stop forcing civilians to assist military operations"
Report, Human Rights Watch, 16 March 2007


Israeli soldiers use a Palestinian man as a human shield to plant an automatic shooting machine in a besieged house, in contravention to the Fourth Geneva Convention, during a military operation in the West Bank city of Bethlehem, 3 November 2006. (MaanImages/Magnus Johansson)

ei: HRW: "Israel: Stop forcing civilians to assist military operations"

Click on this link and witness for yourself Israeli soldiers hiding behind a randomly abducted Palestinian civilian as they search for Palestinian resistance fighters:
HUMAN SHIELDS - part two (video) « “Dubito, ergo cogito; cogito, ergo sum.”…”CUI BONO?”

In that video you will hear personal testimony by an 11 year old girl. The IDF hid behind her as they forced her to open doors where they believed armed militants were hiding.

JTF and Z ignore that the latest round of violence was triggered when Israel invaded Gaza in violation of the terms of the ceasefire and killed people working in one of the hundreds of smuggling tunnels linking Gaza to Egypt. Israel's excuse that the tunnel was part of a plan to attack Israel is improbable. The tunnel was between Gaza and Egypt and not near the Israeli border. The only way it could have been used to attack Israelis would be if the Israelis were in Gaza or Egypt. More likely the tunnel's purpose was the same as the hundreds of other tunnels linking Gaza to Egypt: Smuggling which is the only way Gazans can feed themselves.

A question to JTF and Z: What line would Israel have to cross before you would be willing to state Israel has gone too far? Does abducting and beating 12 year old children cross a line? How about using an 11 year old girl as a human shield?
 

Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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Wrong again EAO. The deal applied only to Gaza. The opening of the bordrs was to be gradual.

Hamas got Islamic Groups to agree? Who's in charge there? I guess we can't blame Israel for the actions of the IDF.

ei: New ceasefire could ease the burden

According to the terms of the arrangement, Israel will halt all military operations in the Gaza Strip. In return, Hamas, along with other smaller resistance factions, will refrain from staging rocket attacks on targets in Israel.

The ceasefire, however, will initially apply only to the Gaza Strip. In the event that the truce holds, it will be extended to the West Bank -- governed by the US-backed Fatah movement of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas -- after a six-month period.

The deal also calls for the gradual reopening of border crossings into and out of the Gaza Strip, hermetically sealed by Israel -- with Egyptian complicity -- for the last year. This includes the flashpoint Rafah terminal, which represents the sole crossing along Egypt's 14-kilometer border with the beleaguered territory.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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EAO are you seriously trying to bring up Objectivity?

Seriously? You have showed clear and constant bias on this matter, I mean, ridiculous levels. You've justified every Palestinian wrong as due to their suffering or hand waived as "both sides do terrible things".

I've heard you call for war crimes on certain Israelis, but never on any Palestinians. I hear you talk about illegal occupation then claim East Jerusalem should belong to a future Palestinian state.


I am unbiased, I do point out when Israel does things wrong and Im vocal about how that should be dealt with. My only concern in the whole situation is human suffering and the advancement of free and open societies.

Since I don't care about issues of pride as they relate to murdering others, or the need for "revenge" or the justification for evil, that means Im not shedding tears for Palestinians as much as you seem to be.

If this conflict was happening anywhere else, this wouldn't even be a serious debate. There wouldn't be vast support for despicable actions of Palestinian groups, and yes, there would be about the same support for Israel, because in the end its support comes from being a democracy. Not because its Jewish.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I have called rocket attacks aimed at civilian targets war crimes repeatedly. I've never claimed that Palestinian militants are innocent. Perhaps you could quote me where I said that?

I've said that about 10,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from Palestinian side and they were legitimate refugees. I notice that unlike the 800,000 Paletinians who were cleansed from the Israeli side, they've since been given citizenship and recieved compensation.

What I've said is that some people who lack justice and freedom will resort to violence to achieve it. That's different than saying its justified or that it isn't a war crime. Its more like saying Palestinian violence should be expected or anticipated given their situation and Israeli actions.

Our news is full of condemnation of Palestinian acts of violence. But I rarely find news stories which put them in context or condemn Israel's acts of violence. Israeli violence is always excused by saying they are in response to Palestinian violent acts which is sometimes true, but usually not. I've been watching this ceasefire carefully and the Palestinian rocket attacks during this ceasefire have been without except a reaction to either an Israeli raid or assassination.

I also note you point out that Egypt does want to seal the border with Palestine, the restriction to how many soldiers it can keep there is the only reason it doesn't have more.

Seems like yes, other people are involved in blockading Gaza, aka the Egyptians who want more soldiers on the border to lock it down even further (hencing wanting European support)

You didn't read my post. I said no such thing:

As per the terms of the 1979 peace agreement, Egypt has no authority in Gaza and recognizes Gaza as Israeli occupied territory.

All goods moving between Gaza and Egypt must go through Kerem Shalom which is controlled by Israel and closed in violation of the disengagement agreement and the current truce with Hamas.

People moving between Gaza and Egypt can cross at Rafah, but only when Israel has monitors present. Israel has removed its monitors from Rafah in violation of the disengagement agreement and the current truce with Hamas. As a result Egypt cannot allow people to enter or leave Gaza.

If Egypt breaks these agreements with Israel it would violate the peace treaty and risk war. It would also risk the billions in military and economic support (bribes) Egypt gets from the US each year for maintaining peace with Israel.

Gaza has no functional airport or seaport because the air and sea is controlled by Israel.

References:
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/t...5.php?CID=2412
ei: The siege on the Gaza Strip
http://domino.un.org/pdfs/AMA_OneYearOn.pdf

Effectively Israel controls Gaza's borders.

The way Egypt runs the border with Gaza is a direct result of its agreements with Israel. If Israel doesn't post monitors at Rafah, Egypt must close that border crossing. That's why they want European monitors to act as a referee. The other Gaza/Egypt crossing is directly controlled by Israel. Egypt allow goods and people to queue up, but only Israel decides if stuff gets in.

In addition to controlling the borders, coastline and airspace, Israel continues to control Gaza's telecommunications, water, electricity and sewage networks, as well as the flow of people and goods into and out of the territory. Gaza continues to use Israeli currency. Also Israel collects taxes on all goods entering and leaving Gaza. They are supposed to be handing this money back to the elected government, but they steal it instead.

Gaza continues to be occupied territory and its the Israelis and not the Egyptians who control Gaza.

Also Z, I've read your links about conditions in Gaza. They describe chronic shortages of food, clothing and medicine, as well as a collapsing infrastructure. Israel has blocked replacement parts and fuel. Your links omitted the constant bombings, targetted assassinations, beatings, summary detention, torture, execution...

Gaza is a nasty place and the people are pissed with Israel, not Egypt. As a result, violence is to be expected.
 

Zzarchov

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"I notice that unlike the 800,000 Paletinians who were cleansed from the Israeli side, they've since been given citizenship and recieved compensation."

That is news to me? Would you mind showing me where Palestine gave Jewish Palestinians citizenship? I still see them calling Jewish refugees returning to the home they still have the deed on, (being the original citizens driven away, not descendants) being classified as illegal settlers.

Would you mind explaining to me when Palestine started giving citizenship to its Jewish residents?

When did they receive compensation for that matter?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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About 10,000 Jews fled the Arab side of the armistice line to the Israeli side. The Israeli government granted them citizenship and compensated them for their losses. The 800,000 Arabs who fled the other direction received no such compensation or citizenship.

The UN resolution which recognizes the right of refugees in this conflict to return home makes no distinction between Arabs and Jews. It applied to all 810,000 refugees. Israel would be justified in only having to compensate their fair share. They made 800,000 people refugees but compensated only 10,000. The other side made 10,000 people refugees but compensated none. Israel still has to compensate 790,000 people. The other side still has to compensate 10,000 people.