Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

[CDNBear]

Does anyone on this forum agree with Ironsides opinion:

Not entirely, but I still think Gazan's are 50% of the problem.

IDF Troopers using humanshields is as ignorant as Hamas militants doing the same thing. Under Israeli military law, it's illegal. Hamas and company see it as all part of the propaganda machine.

 

[earth_as_one]

Flesh to the bone? Are you embelishing a little? It does burn like hell and causes a nasty injury I agree.

If it cannot be exploded...what is an air burst?...

Your description makes WP sound like an annoying insect bite. I'm not embellishing, you are minimizing.

...Doctors in Gaza have reported treating dozens of patients with unusually deadly burns. White phosphorus can have serious, long-term effects on health.How does white phosphorus cause harm?
In its solid form, white phosphorus burns on contact with oxygen and can reach temperatures of 800C.
As a gas, phosphorus smoke can react with water to form a powerful acid...
...

What are the effects on the body?
If particles of white phosphorus land on the body, they burn through clothing and stick to the skin, scorching through layer after layer of tissue until their supply of oxygen is cut off.
Even when it is not burning, the chemical effects of phosphorus can be absorbed deeper into the body causing multiple organ failure.
Different patients react in different ways - some will die from a small burn others will survive...
BBC News - Q&A: White phosphorus injuries

WP shells use high explosives to ignite and distribute wedges of WP. WP itself is not the explosive. Its a reactive component which could be used as an obscurant when exploded relatively near the ground. But since the IDF exploded WP shells at altitude over a densely populated urban area, it shows their intent was to deliberately shake and bake civilians.

The IDF bombing densely populated urban areas with White Phosphorus.

The next photo shows the close up effects of the IDF using WP against a school/bomb shelter full of civilians. You can see a medic running away from his ambulance on the right

Also, the IDF's blatant disregard for civilians isn't just limited to Palestinians, who according to IS don't deserve consideration. Here is a international humanitarian aid worker fleeing for her life:

People can judge for themselves how harmlessness of WP

Video shows evidence of phosphorus bombs in Gaza


A doctor shows phosphorus bomb injuries in Gaza. Warning: contains graphic footage of war injuries Link to this video

Also ES, what's your opinion regarding the IDF using civilians including children as human shields? Do you agree with IS?

 

[EagleSmack]

Your description makes WP sound like an annoying insect bite. I'm not embellishing, you are minimizing.

So my description was...

"burns like hell and causes a nasty injury"

WP when it comes in contact with the skin burns like hell and causes nasty injuries. Hmmmm...no... I do not think I am minimizing anything.

What kind of insects do you have up there?

BTW. FAILED

 

[Colpy]

This is ridiculous, EAO. The use of WP is NOT illegal. Full stop. Weapons hurt. Bullets open terrible wounds, HE blows people to bits....etc etc etc etc......

The point is this...if Israel wanted to "shake and Bake" the civilian population of Gaza.....why would they be so careful as to only kill (by PALESTINIAN count) 1400 people in 22 days? And half of those militants???

Why would they not line up their artillery and fire thousands of rounds into Gaza, and fire missiles and fly bombing raids, blasting the civilian population, then roll in the tanks and infantry, destroying all resistence, while the civilians panic and flee across the border into Egypt????

THAT is how wars are fought, and would actually have some strategic benefit.

It could hardly cause more of a world-wide BS reaction from the anti-Israelis!

The Israelis show incredible restraint in the face of severe provocation.

 

[MHz]

Them JOOOOOOOOOS! Them JOOOOOOOOOOOOS!

Coply used to think he could mock his handlers the same way. Must have got a memo or something.
They are actually quite fond of them, too bad they don't know it is a one-way street.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - ROTHSCHILD:


http://www.emoiz.com/history-of-the...ca-and-assassinated-us-presidents-in-the-wake

 

[ironsides]

So, what is wrong with anyone or any corporation for that matter supporting the birth of a new nation. Many non Jewish people supported Israel's independence with their lives and finances.

The supply ships finally arrived.

 

[earth_as_one]

Some people hit by WP died within a few minutes with wounds which burned holes in their bodies to the bone in some cases. Others lingered for weeks, before finally succumbing to a combination of burns, poison and infection. The IDF used WP cruelly with a callous disregard for innocent civilians.

I've never claimed that all members of the IDF are war criminals. Only that individuals who commit war crimes should be held accountable for their actions. People who deny these atrocities are no better then people who deny other atrocities.

So, what is wrong with anyone or any corporation for that matter supporting the birth of a new nation. Many non Jewish people supported Israel's independence with their lives and finances.

The supply ships finally arrived.

Israel's leader exposed their true nature when they extended their blockade to include food and medicine.

26 May 2010

When Israel pulled its occupying troops out of the Gaza Strip in 2005, many thought it would be the start of a new era for the 1.5 million residents of this tiny territory, just 40km long and 10km wide.
However, Israel continued to control Gaza’s borders, air space and waters, and in mid-2007 imposed an economic blockade after Hamas took over the government, and rockets continued to be fired into Israel.
Severe shortages

Since then the Strip's population has been relying on just a fraction of the imported supplies it received in December 2005, causing severe shortages of medicines, fuel and construction materials, among other items.
See slice of life in Gaza photo gallery

You don't have to deny atrocities to support Jews, Israelis or even Israel. You can support Israel and even Zionism while recognizing atrocities and demanding justice without contradiction. Effectively that describes Justice Goldstone.

...Goldstone is a third-generation South African born into a Jewish family in Boksburg near Johannesburg.[4] He is of mixed English-Lithuanian descent; his mother's father was English and his grandfather was a Lithuanian Jew who emigrated in the 19th century.[5] His family was non-religious,[6] but he credits his Jewishness with having shaped his ethical views through being part of a community that has been persecuted throughout history.[7]...

...The report, released on 15 September 2009, concluded that both sides had committed violations of the laws of war. It stated that Israel had used disproportionate force, targeted Palestinian civilians, used them as human shields and destroyed civilian infrastructure. Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups were found to have deliberately targeted Israeli civilians and sought to spread terror in southern Israel by mounting indiscriminate rocket attacks. The report's conclusions were endorsed by the UN Human Rights Council.[56]

wiki

and B'tselem
http://www.btselem.org/English/

Jewish and Israeli interests are not furthered when the IDF drops WP on densely populated urban areas or when IDF soldiers abduct children and use them as human shields.

 

[Colpy]

This was but one installment in the long and continuous campaign to isolate Israel, and to turn that state in the eyes of international opinion into a pariah, to erode its legitimacy and to break its will. You’ve seen the branding. Apartheid Israel. Israel is the worst thing to happens to Jews since the Holocaust. Racist Israel. Imperialist Israel.
The campaign has been remarkably successful, which is much to Israel’s woe and may be to the world’s woe as well. There are far larger, more egregious causes for the world’s attention than the episode off Gaza last Sunday, greater threats and deeper anxieties. But it is truly worth remarking that when Israel is in the dock, protest rage goes epidemic. To use that vile term so often recently turned upon Israel when it acts in its self-defence, the response is extravagantly “disproportionate.”
I truly do not know why this is so. Israel is a sanctuary state established after one almost successful attempt just two generations ago to rid all the world of Jews. And Israel is now in the shadow of a fundamentalist, ferociously anti-Israel theocracy which is about to equip itself with nuclear weapons. Perhaps, alas, under the threat of a second attempt.
Yet somehow Israel is the rogue, the barbarian nation, the only state on earth that can energize the professionally lethargic diplomats in the great tower of hypocrisy on the East River. Strange and dangerous times.

Read more: Rex Murphy: UN condemns Israel first, investigates later | Full Comment | National Post

​

 

[CDNBear]

Some people hit by WP died within a few minutes with wounds which burned holes in their bodies to the bone in some cases. Others lingered for weeks, before finally succumbing to a combination of burns, poison and infection. The IDF used WP cruelly with a callous disregard for innocent civilians.

Why doesn't it matter that Colpy is right? 1400, in 22 days shows great restraint, and you ignore it for your unrealistic view of conflict.

I've never claimed that all members of the IDF are war criminals.

No, you just use titles and tag lines like "Israel guilty of war crimes", "IDF uses human shields", IDF commits crimes against humanity". Which pretty much implies that the whole is guilty.

Only that individuals who commit war crimes should be held accountable for their actions.

That's not how it looks from this side of the monitor.

Hamas, lies
Hamas, murders
Hamas, steals
Hamas, uses human shields
Hamas uses hosptials as bases
Hamas, uses Mosques as bases
Hamas, is a terrorist organization

People who deny these atrocities are no better then people who deny other atrocities.

Quite. So even by your own standards, you're no better then those that deny that Israel has ever done anything wrong.

By your standards, I'm better than you, lmao!

Israel's leader exposed their true nature when they extended their blockade to include food and medicine.

More BS I see.

You don't have to deny atrocities to support Jews, Israelis or even Israel. You can support Israel and even Zionism while recognizing atrocities and demanding justice without contradiction. Effectively that describes Justice Goldstone.

BS, I alreadt tore apart that report, you put me on ignore so you wouldn't have to answer to my posts.

Jewish and Israeli interests are not furthered when the IDF drops WP on densely populated urban areas or when IDF soldiers abduct children and use them as human shields.

Agreed, that's why it's illegal under Israeli military law.

So, how are all the gay people in Gaza doing? How are the NGO aid groups in Gaza doing?

Read more: Rex Murphy: UN condemns Israel first, investigates later | Full Comment | National Post

​

Good old Rex Murphy, calls'em like he sees'em.

As I read that article Colpy, I thought to myself, might the UN's harsh, and biased condemnation of Israel, be akin to that of a parent that is harsher on their own child, than they are on others.

I worked for my Dad when I was young, I can tell you first hand, he expected more from e, being his son, than he expected from anyone else.

 

[ironsides]

White phosphorus (WP) weapons are not forbidden by international law but some human rights groups believe they should be re-classified as chemical weapons and banned.


WP is not nice to use, but it is effective, but unlike napalm it is not illegal to use it.

 

[CDNBear]

White phosphorus (WP) weapons are not forbidden by international law but some human rights groups believe they should be re-classified as chemical weapons and banned.


WP is not nice to use, but it is effective, but unlike napalm it is not illegal to use it.

Unless you re-interpret law like the red cross does...;-)

According to their re-interpretation of law, conflict is illegal.

 

[CDNBear]

Some people hit by WP died within a few minutes with wounds which burned holes in their bodies to the bone in some cases. Others lingered for weeks, before finally succumbing to a combination of burns, poison and infection. The IDF used WP cruelly with a callous disregard for innocent civilians.

I've never claimed that all members of the IDF are war criminals. Only that individuals who commit war crimes should be held accountable for their actions. People who deny these atrocities are no better then people who deny other atrocities.


Israel's leader exposed their true nature when they extended their blockade to include food and medicine.

You don't have to deny atrocities to support Jews, Israelis or even Israel. You can support Israel and even Zionism while recognizing atrocities and demanding justice without contradiction. Effectively that describes Justice Goldstone.

and B'tselem
B'Tselem - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

Jewish and Israeli interests are not furthered when the IDF drops WP on densely populated urban areas or when IDF soldiers abduct children and use them as human shields.

I recognize a witch hunt when I see one.

Minor infractions of voluntary measures and claims by questionable/unreliable sources have been spun to sound like conclusive proof that Israel has a written policy of genocide.

 

[ironsides]

Does anyone on this forum agree with Ironsides opinion:



Should soldiers be able to abduct children and force them to march in front of them at gunpoint in order to protect themselves from bullets and mines likely fired or planted by the children's relatives?

Do Gaza civilians including children deserve no consideration?

Does anyone else think its a good idea to use women and children as human shields by forcing them into pits at gunpoint and restrain them in stress positions next to tanks and artillery?

Ironsides' opinion is hardly unique. Apparently many Israelis including many Israeli soldiers agree with Ironsides.

While Ironsides view of Palestinian civilians including children may be common in Israel, its not unanimous.

The Israeli supreme court ruled the practice violates international laws. (war crime).
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel bans use of human shields

The idea of using civilian human shields offends at least a few Israelis:

IsraCampus.Org.il

You really know how to twist words, when are you going over there to see for yourself? You said you might.

As mentioned before, WP is meant to kill. breakup attacks and get those in hiding etc. It was designed like a to kill. As to civilians getting hurt or killed, I would first make the Hamas cowards stop using them as shields. You are as usual accusing Israel of doing it, they do not as a policy break any so called human rights rules. In fact this little war is not a game that so many of you seem to think it is. Civilians supporting Hamas are the enemy, no different than Hamas themselves. Israel did not expand the blockade, in fact they loosened it. Yet, not a positive word from your side.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE65G13E20100618?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FworldNews+(News+%2F+US+%2F+International)

 

[earth_as_one]

Israel indicts some of their war criminals:

Israeli Military Announces Indictments in Gaza War
By ISABEL KERSHNER
Published: July 6, 2010

JERUSALEM — The Israeli military said Tuesday that it had indicted “a number of” officers and soldiers for their actions during Israel’s three-week offensive in Gaza in the winter of 2008-9, including a staff sergeant accused of deliberately targeting at least one Palestinian civilian who was walking with a group of people waving a white flag.

The announcement came nearly 18 months after the end of the war, and on the day that Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was scheduled to meet in Washington with President Obama in an effort to improve strained ties..

.The staff sergeant accused of killing at least one civilian faces a manslaughter charge. Beyond that, the military said a battalion commander had been indicted for deviating from “authorized and appropriate” army behavior and from an Israeli Supreme Court ruling when he authorized a Palestinian man to act as a kind of human shield by entering a house where militants were sheltering in order to convince them to leave..

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/world/middleeast/07mideast.html

No sense to continue denying Israeli atrocities. They even admit committing them.

This is a baby step in the right direction. Anyone who has read the Goldstone report knows this is only the tip of the iceberg.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

 

[earth_as_one]

You really know how to twist words, when are you going over there to see for yourself? You said you might.

As mentioned before, WP is meant to kill. breakup attacks and get those in hiding etc. It was designed like a to kill. As to civilians getting hurt or killed, I would first make the Hamas cowards stop using them as shields. You are as usual accusing Israel of doing it, they do not as a policy break any so called human rights rules. In fact this little war is not a game that so many of you seem to think it is. Civilians supporting Hamas are the enemy, no different than Hamas themselves. Israel did not expand the blockade, in fact they loosened it. Yet, not a positive word from your side.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE65G13E20100618?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FworldNews+(News+%2F+US+%2F+International)

Israel continues to block food, medicine and humanitarian aid from entering Gaza. Periodically Israel's blockade has been total and at other times its less restrictive. I question why Israel can block food, medicine and humanitarian aid at all.

Meanwhile, Israel has indicted a few of their worst war criminals. I acknowledge this small positive step in the right direction.

 

[ironsides]

Israel indicts some of their war criminals:

No sense to continue denying Israeli atrocities. They even admit committing them.

This is a baby step in the right direction. Anyone who has read the Goldstone report knows this is only the tip of the iceberg.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

You keep blaming Israel for what a individual soldier does. Now as for atrocities, they happen in every war. It was not a Israeli policy to kill civilians.

 

[earth_as_one]

As I have said previously, individuals should be held accountable for their actions. Many Israelis have committed atrocities. Israeli soldiers have committed war crimes. Israeli leaders have committed crimes against humanity. Palestinian militants have also committed war crimes.

I've based my opinion on what I've read in Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Goldstone report. I've been posting about these war crimes and crimes against humanity for years while Israeli apologists like yourself deny, obfuscate, shift the blame. Even now, you still can't bring yourself to condemn shooting unarmed civilians under a white flag of truce or the IDF abducting civilians at gun point and using them literally as human shields.

BTW, I would agree that Israeli war crimes are not policy as that would be bad PR, but they are routine practice.

 

[Colpy]

As I have said previously, individuals should be held accountable for their actions. Many Israelis have committed atrocities. Israeli soldiers have committed war crimes. Israeli leaders have committed crimes against humanity. Palestinian militants have also committed war crimes.

I've based my opinion on what I've read in Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Goldstone report. I've been posting about these war crimes and crimes against humanity for years while Israeli apologists like yourself deny, obfuscate, shift the blame. Even now, you still can't bring yourself to condemn shooting unarmed civilians under a white flag of truce or the IDF abducting civilians at gun point and using them literally as human shields.

BTW, I would agree that Israeli war crimes are not policy as that would be bad PR, but they are routine practice.

More than anything, these posts in response to Israeli actions against those in the IDF who may have broken the law, shows your bias, your prejudice, your unwillingness to be fair, and your Jew-hatred.

How many militants is Hamas trying for war crimes???

Here's a hint: NONE!

Instead, they declare them heroes, and hang posters of them in schools, so the kiddies will hopefully dream of emulating them.

Please spare me the unmitigated BS about how you condemn Hamas crimes as well.

Please.

 

[CDNBear]

Israel indicts some of their war criminals:

No sense to continue denying Israeli atrocities. They even admit committing them.

Of course they do, Israel has a set of laws on how their Soldiers will operate in the field. When those laws are broken and their is sufficient evidence to prosecute, they do.

This is a baby step in the right direction. Anyone who has read the Goldstone report knows this is only the tip of the iceberg.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

I read the Goldstone report, as per your challenge. I addressed several issues that are blatantly suspect, as per your challenge. I noted page, section and paragraph, as per your challenge. Yet you have never responded.

I know why though, you can't. You simply can not refute the facts I posted. So you will hide behind the iggy button, grasping your failed ideology. Ignoring anything that might force you to re-examine years of errors.

Israel continues to block food, medicine and humanitarian aid from entering Gaza.

Bullsh!t.

Periodically Israel's blockade has been total and at other times its less restrictive.

Of course, this happens when you are in a state of conflict with another group. Security threats are evaluated, and they tighten or loosen the border as dictated.

I question why Israel can block food, medicine and humanitarian aid at all.

They don't. I've read the list of approved goods, at one of your own links. They don't block food or medicine.

As I have said previously, individuals should be held accountable for their actions.

Agreed.

Many Israelis have committed atrocities.

Yet Israeli courts have not the evidence to move forward, yet the ICC has not indicted any Israeli politician, for lack of evidence that you claim you have.

Israeli soldiers have committed war crimes.

Never said they didn't, I've been saying that not the whole of Israel, nor the Jewish people are to blame for that.

Israeli leaders have committed crimes against humanity.

You keep saying this. Yet no Israeli politician has been indicted by the ICC. WHY?

Palestinian militants have also committed war crimes.

I acknowledge this small positive step in the right direction.

I've based my opinion on what I've read in Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Goldstone report.

Now there's some balanced bed time reading. I've based some of my views off HRW, including why Hamas is not trustworthy, I even used HRW to show that Hamas is not trustworthy. Is HRW only believable when they're condemning the Jooos?

I've been posting about these war crimes and crimes against humanity for years while Israeli apologists like yourself deny, obfuscate, shift the blame.

I been posting the other side of that equation for years, and you've been shifting blame obfuscating, ignoring documented history, dismissing reality and otherwise turning a blind eye to anythig that doesn't support you hatred of the Joos.

Even now, you still can't bring yourself to condemn shooting unarmed civilians under a white flag of truce or the IDF abducting civilians at gun point and using them literally as human shields.

I'll condemn it when they've had their day in court. I guess unlike myself, you only think "innocent until proven guilty" is applicable to non Joos.

BTW, I would agree that Israeli war crimes are not policy as that would be bad PR, but they are routine practice.

I love your unsupported caveats.

 

[MHz]

You keep saying this. Yet no Israeli politician has been indicted by the ICC. WHY?

It's in the investigation stage. Seems that some 600 complaints have been lodged with the IDF for the way 15 and under have been treated, so far 0 convictions. Not that their courts back up their own decisions anyway.

Follow-up to Goldstone Report/ Israel's panel to investigate Gaza aid flotilla - Daily Press Briefing by Assoc. Spokesperson for the SecGen - Transcript (Excerpts) (14 June 2010)