Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
You just answered your question.


Israel is not persecuting anyone, they just want the Arab people in surrounding countries to leave them alone. Ever since the time of Abraham his decedents have been warring with each other. It is time for the Arabs to recognize that a Israeli state will exist and instead of sacrificing their children they should learn to live with them. The time for sacrificing anyone or animals is over, God really does not care about insignificant goings on of man.

These people have been waiting for freedom and justice for over 60 years now. Point fingers where you like they don't have it and they aren't getting it anytime soon.

Killing civilians with chemical weapons is a war crime.

Israel attacks civilians with chemical weapons.
YouTube - White Phosphorus used by israel

White Phosphorus injuries
YouTube - Impact of the white phosphorus on the human body from alleged Israeli attack
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: selin

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
These people have been waiting for freedom and justice for over 60 years now. Point fingers where you like they don't have it and they aren't getting it anytime soon.
Waiting for freedom from who? 60+ years ago they were nothing, parts of other nations, not until the PLO did they really have a independence movement that advocated anything. They have no national past to base statehood upon.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
These people have been waiting for freedom and justice for over 60 years now. Point fingers where you like they don't have it and they aren't getting it anytime soon.
Because they are 50% of the problem.

Killing civilians with chemical weapons is a war crime.
Agreed.

Israel attacks civilians with chemical weapons.
YouTube - White Phosphorus used by israel
Anyone that thinks that's some sort of big bad phosphorous weapon burning, is a complete moron and never seen white phosphorous burning. That's the left overs from either tracer rounds or flash grenades.

Their presence in a an area of armed conflict is nothing out of the ordinary, unless you subscribe the the red crosses re-interpreted ideas on international law and the rules of armed conflict.

Riiight, because he says so.
 
Last edited:

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
These people have been waiting for freedom and justice for over 60 years now. Point fingers where you like they don't have it and they aren't getting it anytime soon.

Killing civilians with chemical weapons is a war crime.

Israel attacks civilians with chemical weapons.
YouTube - White Phosphorus used by israel

White Phosphorus injuries
YouTube - Impact of the white phosphorus on the human body from alleged Israeli attack

Absolutely true, and as soon as the Arab world stops persecuting and exploiting the Palestinans, and accepts them as their people, the problem will be solved.

The use of WP is NOT a war crime. It is not banned, and if you took ten minutes to research anything, you wouldn't make such a damn fool of yourself.

Legitimate uses of WP:

As a target marker........
As an incendiary......
And, most significantly in this case, to project thick dense smoke to provide cover, especially in closed urban environments.

22 days of attacks, 1400 dead, one half of them militants. I am awed at Israeli RESTRAINT, to tell you the truth......
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Absolutely true, and as soon as the Arab world stops persecuting and exploiting the Palestinans, and accepts them as their people, the problem will be solved.
So along with that advocating of the killing of Police Officers you are now also promoting forced deportations of civilians. Really reaching new levels aren't you?

Perhaps the Arabs should just turn off the oil for 2 months.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
36
48
Toronto
So along with that advocating of the killing of Police Officers you are now also promoting forced deportations of civilians. Really reaching new levels aren't you?

Perhaps the Arabs should just turn off the oil for 2 months.

Shooting rockets into Israel is OK as far as your concerned?
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Shooting rockets into Israel is OK as far as your concerned?
Did I say it was? No. Shouldn't Israel be complaining to the ICC about such incidents?

We've been over this Liberalman. It's not really OK, but it only kills a couple people once in awhile. So it really isn't that bad.

According to mhz and eao, that is.

Prove I ever said that and don't forget the post#
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Prove I ever said that and don't forget the post#
As soon as you answer all my questions sunshine. I'm through wasting my time and energy proving you wrong over and over and over, only to have you ignore it outright or dismiss it without so much as a shred of proof. Like you've done in every single thread we've come in contact in.

So in short, buy some lube and go play with yourself.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
So along with that advocating of the killing of Police Officers you are now also promoting forced deportations of civilians. Really reaching new levels aren't you?

Perhaps the Arabs should just turn off the oil for 2 months.

No.

I am talking about the Arab nations negotiating the return of territory occupied by the Palestinians....ie the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt. Israel would rejoice!!!!

I am talking about Arab nations accepting the children of Palestinian refugees born on "occupied" territory as proper citizens of their nations.....not specifically preventing their assimilation into the Arab world by declaring them to be "refugees" although they have never fled anywhere......

I am talking about Arab nations supporting peace with Israel as opposed to war. I am talking about Arab nations setting out to help the people of Gaza and the West Bank, as opposed to using them as cannon fodder against the state of Israel.

I am talking about the Persians and Arabs, the Muslim world, ceasing to send missiles and weapons to the Palestinians, stopping the praise and shelter of the murdering scum that lead the fanatical Islamist organizations, and instead helping the Palestinians with doctors, engineers, and a serious diplomatic undertaking with Israel on creating a peaceful ME.

So far, the WORST enemy of the Palestinian future has been Arab and Persian, NOT Jew.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
HE (high explosves) and C-4 are chemicals too. So if you are going to include Wolly Pete rounds in the chemical weapons category you may as well include the HE that the Palestinians are putting in their rockets. We used WP all the time in training. Calling WP a chemical weapon is a reach. I'd much rather be next to a WP round going off than a rocket.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
White Phosphorus is not an explosive. Its a reactive chemical which burns flesh to the bone. It cannot be used legally to deliberately maim and kill people. Israel air burst WP over densely populated urban areas to deliberately maim and kill people. That's a war crime.

Using civilians as human shields is a war crime:

...Palestinian men were blindfolded and handcuffed as they were forced to enter houses ahead
of the Israeli soldiers. In one of the incidents, Israeli forces repeatedly forced a man to enter a
house in which Palestinian combatants were hiding. Published testimonies of Israeli soldiers who
took part in the military operations confirm the continued use of this practice, in spite of clear
orders from Israel’s High Court to the armed forces to put an end to it and repeated public
assurances from the armed forces that the practice had been discontinued. The Mission
concludes that this practice amounts to the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields and is
therefore prohibited by international humanitarian law. It puts the right to life of the civilians at
risk in an arbitrary and unlawful manner and constitutes cruel and inhuman treatment. The use of
human shields also is a war crime. The Palestinian men used as human shields were questioned
under threat of death or injury to extract information about Hamas, Palestinian combatants and
tunnels. This constitutes a further violation of international humanitarian law....

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
So you are now also promoting forced deportations of civilians. Really reaching new levels aren't you?

Perhaps the Arabs should just turn off the oil for 2 months.

Removing civilians to get them out of a war zone is good, no one is being deported. (where would they be deported to, no one wants them, not even their own.) Maybe a cold statement, but it is the truth.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Using civilians as human shields to protect Israeli tanks and artillery is a war crime:

The men, 11 women and at least seven children below the age of 14
were taken on foot to al-Kaklouk... ...Many of the men remained in their underwear, exposed to the harsh winter weather.
552 Al-Kaklouk is very close to Israeli military artillery and tank positions, and while the detainees were
held here at least one tank was engaged in frequent firing... ...on arrival at al-Kaklouk, everyone was asked to clamber
down into trenches, which had been dug to create a pit surrounded by a wall of sand, about three
metres high. There were three such pits, each of which was surrounded by barbed wire. They
were estimated to cover about 7,000 square metres (“six or seven donums”) each. AD/01
described how they were assembled in long single files, rather than massed together, and held in
these pits, in the open air and exposed to cold temperatures for three days (till 8 January). Each
pit accommodated approximately 20 people. They were forced to sit in stress positions, on their
knees and leaning forward keeping their heads down. They were monitored by soldiers and were
not allowed to communicate with each other. They had no access to food or water on the first
day of their internment, and were given a sip of water and an olive each to eat on the second and
third days of their detention (6 and 7 January). They had limited access to toilet facilities. The
men had to wait for two to three hours after asking before they were allowed to leave the pits to
relieve themselves and sometimes were able to remove their blindfolds for the purpose. A few of
them were told to relieve themselves inside the pit, behind a small mount of sand. They stated
that it was culturally too difficult for the women to seek permission to relieve themselves and
they did not ask...

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Removing civilians to get them out of a war zone is good, no one is being deported. (where would they be deported to, no one wants them, not even their own.) Maybe a cold statement, but it is the truth.
How about if you remove the war instead? What would the place look like if civilian items were pumped into the area like they should have been. The place could have been awash in cash, tourism alone would have ended the welfare status.

You want cold, the Nazis offered to transport the Polish Jews to the west, nobody wanted them. Millions died. In the Ukraine a decade before that some 6 million died via forced starvation. The long list of persecutions came from Europe. They were not the only ones persecuted although they are the best documented od the poor and needy. When England expelled them for 350 years there were still poor and needy people in the land and their abusers were no less harsh. Arabs are the least of their problems.

Was all the paperwork at the UN just for one set of victims? It hasn't been very subtle, we abandoned the Native Arabs of the future Palestine even before the document was dry. As an Allie of the UK we declared war when they did, no questions asked. Did they ever try to suspend our rights as an independent country? How did the Arabs that became Allies of the UK in WW1 fair after the deal was done and the UK ruled the land. Was it a Master / Slave relationship more than the friendship that Canada had ? I doubt they fought to get themselves into deeper slavery (in their the British were always quite hard on their slaves, in the Christian way of dealing with the Heathens). (Oddly enough that makes the ones they tortured and killed in line for a better greeting than the blood-thirsty Servants of Christ)

If the reality is that we support a more barbaric way of dealing with the less fortunate then why dress it up as something it isn't? That is if we are holding the club, should it be the other way around we are the first ones to be waving some white-pieces of paper saying, "This is how we are to be treated. when captured by a hostile army."

I'm through wasting my time.
From your past record you should prove yourself to be a liar before this thread is dead.

Yeah you are, you already deny the ones who are already in exile and all the children born to them. They still have a voice and they choose that it be heard in their old home, a place 'we' created, a place called Israel. 400 disappeared villages in 6 months, Colpy. Your little mantra isn't going to make that go away. For a change why don't we try to live up to our agreements, this time rather than the next time.

I am talking about the Arab nations negotiating the return of territory occupied by the Palestinians....ie the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt. Israel would rejoice!!!!
It would be hard expand the West Bank but Gaza could be given almost unlimited land to the south, for economic development.
The goal is to give the Arabs something to rejoice about. Like Magna Carta protections. Israel should have been celebrating for 60 years, time to sit down and shut-up.

I am talking about Arab nations accepting the children of Palestinian refugees born on "occupied" territory as proper citizens of their nations.....not specifically preventing their assimilation into the Arab world by declaring them to be "refugees" although they have never fled anywhere......
Their parents had to of there would have been no children, so stuff that argument. Did ant Jews provide Roman Tax receipts from prior to 70AD to prove they belonged and are not just common liars?

I am talking about Arab nations supporting peace with Israel as opposed to war. I am talking about Arab nations setting out to help the people of Gaza and the West Bank, as opposed to using them as cannon fodder against the state of Israel.
Cough up the cash rather than the axe-handles in the middle of the night. That's for starters. If anybody had bothered to read UN181 you would see that it was geared to eventual separation into Arab and Jewish lands if integration did not work out.. Only Jews were allowed to purchase 'public land' in Israel acter Nov. '48 and only Arabs could purchase 'public land' in Gaza or the West Bank. Jerusalem was to stay the way it was, under UN control.

Why should they leave, maybe we should just accept that we are going to have to shower them with gifts. It's isn't like we are ever going to pay our debt off to the world Banks anyway.

I am talking about the Persians and Arabs, the Muslim world, ceasing to send missiles and weapons to the Palestinians, stopping the praise and shelter of the murdering scum that lead the fanatical Islamist organizations, and instead helping the Palestinians with doctors, engineers, and a serious diplomatic undertaking with Israel on creating a peaceful ME.
Those are the first ones Israel targets with their war machines. Doctors with ruined hospitals, engineers with no building supplies.
Now it is the Muslim world raining down missiles on Israel., going for the hate-mongering badge also.

So far, the WORST enemy of the Palestinian future has been Arab and Persian, NOT Jew.
I would think being stabbed in the back by the British who were making back-room deals with Jewish Banksters should rank right up there as to what side of the fence we are sitting on.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,207
14,248
113
Low Earth Orbit
as soon as the Arab world stops persecuting and exploiting the Palestinans, and accepts them as their people, the problem will be solved.
Does that include the 350,000+ Christians living in the Jordan desert (and more elsewhere) that Israel doesn't want in Israel or the bootlicking King Hussein want in Jordan either? What is their stake in all this?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
How about if you remove the war instead? What would the place look like if civilian items were pumped into the area like they should have been. The place could have been awash in cash, tourism alone would have ended the welfare status.
You mean kind of like what's happening in the West Bank? It ain't perfect, but it's better than Gaza. Go figure. So what's the major difference? No Hamas in the West Bank.

You want cold, the Nazis offered to transport the Polish Jews to the west, nobody wanted them. Millions died. In the Ukraine a decade before that some 6 million died via forced starvation. The long list of persecutions came from Europe. They were not the only ones persecuted although they are the best documented od the poor and needy. When England expelled them for 350 years there were still poor and needy people in the land and their abusers were no less harsh. Arabs are the least of their problems.
Excuses excuses excuses.
Was all the paperwork at the UN just for one set of victims?
Given th elist of resolutions written against Israel. the answer to your question is, no.
If the reality is that we support a more barbaric way of dealing with the less fortunate then why dress it up as something it isn't?
You and eao do it all the time.


From your past record you should prove yourself to be a liar before this thread is dead.
You haven't been able to prove that personal attack since the first time you babbled it. I doubt you'll be proving it anytime soon, nor will you answer any questions that I've posted to you, because you can't. Cut, paste and parrot is all you can do.


Their parents had to of there would have been no children, so stuff that argument. Did ant Jews provide Roman Tax receipts from prior to 70AD to prove they belonged and are not just common liars?
Can you translate the highlighted portions into English please?

Only Jews were allowed to purchase 'public land' in Israel acter Nov. '48 and only Arabs could purchase 'public land' in Gaza or the West Bank
The Israeli courts already fixed that inequity.

And what is "acter"?

. Jerusalem was to stay the way it was, under UN control.
Oh now the UN is good? You really should be consistent.

Those are the first ones Israel targets with their war machines. Doctors with ruined hospitals, engineers with no building supplies.
Now it is the Muslim world raining down missiles on Israel., going for the hate-mongering badge also.
There's the justification! :lol:
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
"Using civilians as human shields to protect Israeli tanks and artillery is a war crime:"

What is wrong with having those who planted the mines walk in front of the soldiers and tanks. There are no civilians in Gaza, those people there had ample time and chances to leave, yet chose to stay. That is not courage, that is stupidity. No one in their right mind tries to raise a family on a front line. If Hamas chooses to shoot at Israeli soldiers from behind volunteer human shields as they do then those so called civilians as you call them deserve no consideration.


The only war crime here is Hamas using the so called civilian population to hide behind.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Does anyone on this forum agree with Ironsides opinion:

"Using civilians as human shields to protect Israeli tanks and artillery is a war crime:"

What is wrong with having those who planted the mines walk in front of the soldiers and tanks. There are no civilians in Gaza, those people there had ample time and chances to leave, yet chose to stay. That is not courage, that is stupidity. No one in their right mind tries to raise a family on a front line. If Hamas chooses to shoot at Israeli soldiers from behind volunteer human shields as they do then those so called civilians as you call them deserve no consideration.


The only war crime here is Hamas using the so called civilian population to hide behind.

Should soldiers be able to abduct children and force them to march in front of them at gunpoint in order to protect themselves from bullets and mines likely fired or planted by the children's relatives?

Do Gaza civilians including children deserve no consideration?

Does anyone else think its a good idea to use women and children as human shields by forcing them into pits at gunpoint and restrain them in stress positions next to tanks and artillery?

Ironsides' opinion is hardly unique. Apparently many Israelis including many Israeli soldiers agree with Ironsides.

While Ironsides view of Palestinian civilians including children may be common in Israel, its not unanimous.

The Israeli supreme court ruled the practice violates international laws. (war crime).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4314898.stm

The idea of using civilian human shields offends at least a few Israelis:
Nits breed lice
23 March 2010
Hebrew University - Nurit Peled-Elhanan (Dept of Education) insists that Israel murders Arab children because it regards them as lice

In memory of four Palestinian children killed this week

Here in Israel our treatment of Palestinian children has long been guided by the adage “nits breed lice.” Some say it openly, others share that view in silence. Not a month passes in which several Palestinian children are not killed under unclear pretexts that no one understands, until a Swedish journalist tried to guess, and all the big guns were deployed to silence him. For the most part, the Occupation authorities manage to fake the ages of the little victims and to attribute criminal or subversive intentions to them, and when none of that works they excuse themselves like ping-pong players by saying “oops, sorry.” And this time too the IDF killing experts said “perhaps it could have been dealt with differently.” Perhaps, indeed...

http://www.isracampus.org.il/third%20level%20pages/HebrewU%20-%20Nurit%20Peled-Elhanan%20-%20nits%20breed%20lice.htm
 
Last edited:

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
White Phosphorus is not an explosive. Its a reactive chemical which burns flesh to the bone. It cannot be used legally to deliberately maim and kill people. Israel air burst WP over densely populated urban areas to deliberately maim and kill people. That's a war crime.

Using civilians as human shields is a war crime:

Flesh to the bone? Are you embelishing a little? It does burn like hell and causes a nasty injury I agree.

If it cannot be exploded...what is an air burst?

I would think being stabbed in the back by the British who were making back-room deals with Jewish Banksters should rank right up there as to what side of the fence we are sitting on.

Them JOOOOOOOOOS! Them JOOOOOOOOOOOOS!