Israel abducts Nobel Laureate

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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If they were left alone by the Godless heathens, they would be able to survive on their own. Keep in mind when all were against them they did create a oasis out of the desert.

All this anti Israel chat would happen anyway, just because some are jealous of what the Jewish state has accomplished without war. Nothing they do will ever change that.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Keep in mind when all were against them they did create a oasis out of the desert.
With your money and a water deal with Jordan and Lebanon who get paid with your money to buy water for Israel to grow a mango that has more subsidies than the mango is worth at market.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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''So why do they need 60Billion + a year in US and CDN taxpayer money? How many of these people like the US or Canada? 20 years ago they were your Godless blood enemies behind the Garlic Curtain. ''


It rpoves what I have said all along -- that it is the far right wing hypocrites and liars who are the real corporate communists and socialist welfare queens.

Next time one of those idiots calls me a socialist I'm going to post this thread in answer to their repeated stupidity.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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With your money and a water deal with Jordan and Lebanon who get paid with your money to buy water for Israel to grow a mango that has more subsidies than the mango is worth at market.


What point are you trying to make? We are supporting a people who the world ignored that lead directly to the letting the 'Holocaust" happen by that snub. Remember "The Ship of Fools". Call it guilt money or what ever you want, the U.N. created Israel and it is up to us to make sure they have the ability to survive. We owe them at least that, no matter what some personally think.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I guess the guns and the bombs never made it to Gaza

You have no evidence to support your statement. The ship was thoroughly searched by Israel and I never heard anything about guns and bombs. Would you care to admit that you made this up (AKA lied), or can you post a supporting link?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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I agree with the statements made by Jewish Voice for Peace referenced by petros. Ironsides is correct that Israel and Israelis have done many admirable things. But they have also committed war crimes and crimes against humanity:


war crimes in red:
Israel/Gaza: Operation ‘Cast Lead’ - 22 Days of Death and Destruction

Facts and Figures

Gaza
  • Some 1,400 Palestinians were killed, including some 300 children, and hundreds of other unarmed civilians, including more than 115 women and some 85 men aged over 50 during the 22-day Operation "Cast Lead".
  • Many Palestinian civilians were killed in attacks by high-precision weapons which are capable of pinpoint strikes and can hit within a meter of their targets and which have exceptionally good optics allowing those carrying out or directing the strikes to see the targets in detail.
  • Many other Palestinian civilians were killed in indiscriminate and reckless attacks using imprecise weapons which should never be used in densely populated civilian areas.
  • More Palestinians were killed and more properties were destroyed in the 22-day military campaign than in any previous Israeli offensive.
  • The Israeli army has put the death toll at 1200 and maintains that most of those killed were not civilians but it has failed to provide any lists or any information indicating on what they base their figures.
  • Thousands of Palestinian were left homeless. Hundreds of businesses and public buildings were destroyed. In most of the cases they investigated in Gaza Amnesty International delegates found evidence that the destruction was wanton and deliberate and could not be justified on grounds of “military necessity”.
  • Amnesty International delegates investigated dozens of cases comprising more than 300 victims, more than half of them women and children.
  • Israeli forces repeatedly targeted ambulances and medical crews, killing several medical workers while they were attempting to rescue the wounded and recover the dead.
  • Injured civilians who could have been saved died needlessly as Israeli forces frequently denied access to ambulances and others to trying rescue the wounded, recover the dead and bring aid to those in need.
  • The borders of Gaza were kept sealed throughout Operation “Cast Lead” and civilians could not flee, and there was nowhere in Gaza where their safety could be guaranteed. (eao:should be a war crime)
  • Israeli forces forced Palestinian civilians on several occasions to serve as “human shields”.
  • Amnesty International found no evidence that rockets were launched from residential houses or buildings while civilians were in these buildings, but Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups at times launched rockets and located military equipment and positions near civilian homes.

Southern Israel
  • Palestinian rocket attacks killed three Israeli civilians and caused severe injuries to 4 people, moderate injuries to 11, and light injuries to 167 others.
  • Six Israeli soldiers were killed in the attacks by Palestinian armed groups (and 4 other were killed by Israeli forces in “friendly fire” incidents).
  • Several hundred rockets in all were fired by Palestinian armed groups on Southern Israel during operation “Cast Lead” (571 rockets and 205 mortar shells landed in Israel according to the Israeli authorities).
  • Rockets launched from Gaza reached towns up to 40km away.
  • Thousands of families fled to other parts of the country.
  • Several civilian homes and other structures were damaged.
  • The ‘Izzeddin al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas’ armed wing, claimed responsibility for most of the rockets launched into Israel.
  • Other armed groups which claimed rockets and mortar attacks against Israel include the armed wings of Fatah, of Islamic Jihad and of the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine).
Document - Israel/Gaza: Operation ‘Cast Lead’ - 22 Days of Death and Destruction. Facts and Figures | Amnesty International

All of the above war crimes have been proven by AI and are detailed in this report:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...a74-4853-860f-0563725e633a/mde150152009en.pdf

Some people here in this forum dispute Israel's use of innocent civilians as human shields during this operation. From the above report:
...During Operation “Cast Lead” Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the
Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their
house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and
children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk.72 While soldiers wore protective body
armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses,
the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection.

In the al-Zaytoun district of Gaza City, Israeli soldiers took over several houses of the
extended al-Sammouni family when they entered the area. As’ad ‘Ali al-Sammouni told
Amnesty International: “I live in this house with my wife, my three married sons and their
wives and 11 children and my four unmarried sons. My two nephews, their wives and 15
children were also staying with us. We were some 45 people in all. In the night between 3
and 4 January we heard noises up on the roof terrace and we concluded that the soldiers
must have descended from a helicopter because the gate and the front door were locked and
no one could have entered the house from anywhere else. We heard them banging up on the
roof terrace but nobody could dare to go upstairs to see what was happening. We all stayed
on the ground floor. At about 6.30am there was banging at the front door and lots of soldiers
came in. They grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and asked about Qassams and I said we
did not have any such things. They tied and blindfolded all of us – men and boys – and put
us all in one room in the ground floor, together with the women and children. I asked them to
let me get my dentures from my room but they did not let me. After the end of the war I
found them on them on the floor, broken, like so many other things. We were kept there for a
day and a half. We only had a little bit of food for the children but not enough. Also we did
not have water. On the second day (5 January) my cousin Mousa and his wife and baby girl
came to knock at the door after they escaped from the house of my relative Wa’el across the
road, which had been shelled and many relatives had been killed. The soldiers took him too
and tied him and blindfolded him and put him and his wife and baby in the same room with
us. When Mousa told us that Wa’el’s house had been shelled and many relatives had been
killed and injured the women and children screamed and cried and the soldiers came and
asked what we wanted and we begged them to let us leave. In the end the army said we
could leave except for Mousa and my nephew ‘Imad and they said that if the Qassam fighters
found out that there were soldiers in the house and attacked them they would kill Mousa and
‘Imad. I asked again to fetch my dentures but the soldiers refused. I found them broken
when I returned the house after the army left Gaza. We left on foot and some other relatives
from nearby houses also joined us. The soldiers said we had to walk and not stop. My nephew
Iyad was walking ahead of me and I saw him fall and I thought he had tripped but then I saw
he had been shot in the left leg. I stopped to help but Israeli soldiers in the Jouha family
house shouted to continue walking or they would shoot again so we had to keep walking. Iyad
crawled for a bit and then collapsed. His wife and his five children saw him being shot and
then crawl and collapse but they and us could not help him because the soldier did not allow
anyone to stop. Further on the main Salahaddin Road we found an ambulance but they could
not go to the place where Iyad had collapsed and so he was left to die where he had
collapsed. The ambulance took Mousa’s wife and baby girl, who was injured in her hand, to
the hospital.”

Members of the Jouha family, interviewed separately by Amnesty International, corroborated
the account of events (see case of Ibrahim Jouha in Appendix 1).
Yousef Abu ‘Ida (also known as Abu ‘Abdallah), and his wife Leila and their nine children,
five daughters and four sons aged between four and 22, were in their home in Hay al-Salam
(Peace Neighbourhood), to the east of Jabalia. Israeli soldiers forcibly took over their house
and held the family as “human shields” for two days while they used the house as a military
position, then they forced the family out and later destroyed the house. Abu ‘Abdallah told
Amnesty International: “At about 10.30am on 5 January a group of soldiers entered our
home, and locked all of us in the basement while they went upstairs. They took our mobile
phone and did not allow us to move. They took all the blankets and mattresses. We had no
food and no water. The children were scared, cold, hungry and thirsty but we had nothing.
We were kept like that for two days. We heard the soldiers laughing and shooting upstairs. We
were scared. After a day the younger children were desperate for water and I took the bit of
water which remained in the cistern of the toilet to give to them; there was no other
alternative. After two days, on the morning of 7 January, the soldiers threw us out of the
house. I asked to go upstairs to fetch some clothes and shoes but they did not allow us. We
had to leave barefoot and with only what we were wearing when the soldiers first came into
the house two days earlier.” The house was later destroyed (see Chapter 3.1).
According to testimonies, in several cases Israeli forces also forced unarmed Palestinian
civilian males (mostly adults but in two cases also children) to serve as “human shields”,
including making them walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby
traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives. These practices are not new.
Numerous such cases have been documented in recent years and the Israeli Supreme Court
has ruled that such practices contradict international law and prohibited them in October
2005.73
Majdi Abed Rabbo, a father of five and a member of the PA security forces, told Amnesty
International: “At about 10am on Monday 5 January soldiers came to my house and took me
with them to a neighbour’s house where they were also keeping other neighbours. The
soldiers were shooting from the house but I don’t know at what because I could not see. At
about 2pm a soldier took me outside, pointed to Abu Hatem’s house and told me to go into
that house to take the weapons and the clothes of the armed men who were in that house,
whom they had killed. I refused but they told me to obey. I went into the house, and found
three armed Qassam members alive. They told me to leave and not to come back and
threatened to shoot me if I went back. I returned to the soldiers, who made me undress and
turn around, and I then told them that the three were alive. They handcuffed me; they were
shooting. Later they again sent me to check on the armed militants inside the house. I found
one wounded and the others alright, who said: ‘Tell the officer that if he is a man, he can
come up here himself.’ I went back and told the soldiers and they cursed me and handcuffed
me. I heard a helicopter approaching, followed by the sound of a missile exploding. The
soldiers said that now they were sure they had killed the armed men in the house with the
missile. But when I looked I saw that the missile had struck my house and not the house with
the gunmen inside. I told the soldiers. At about midnight, between Monday and Tuesday, I
was forced to go for a third time, to check if the gunmen were dead. I found two of the
gunmen still alive, but buried under the rubble; the third was still holding his weapon. I told
the soldier, who got angrier and didn’t believe me and sent two teenagers, Jamal Qatari and
Zidane, to take photos. The two refused but the soldiers beat them and so they went and took
photos and then the soldiers sent in a dog. By then it was about 10 or 11am.”
His neighbour and relative Akram Abed Rabbo, a father of six, also told Amnesty
International that he had been taken from his home in the early morning (about 2-3am) on 6
January by Israeli soldiers who also used him as a “human shield” and forced him to inspect
several houses in the area over a three-day period. He said: “The soldiers sent me into the
houses first and then they sent in the dog and only after that they went into the houses
themselves. I didn’t find anything in the houses I inspected, but I was afraid. Also, in the
meantime I had no idea where my wife, who is pregnant, and my children were.”
In Khuza’a, east of Khan Yunis, Mohammed al-Najjar, 16, told Amnesty International that on
13 January he was held by Israeli soldiers in a house they used as a sniper position: “The
soldiers, special forces, took me to the house. I was handcuffed and blindfolded but they
untied me when they let me go to the toilet so I could see a bit then. They didn’t interrogate
me. They just sat around on a mattress and chatted and laughed and also sang a bit. I didn’t
understand what they said because they spoke in Hebrew, but one of them spoke to me in
Arabic and told me to sing with them; I refused at first but then I had to obey. Then they shot
a couple of shots and I heard women nearby screaming ‘God is great’ and crying. Later I
knew that this is when they killed our neighbour Rawhiya.74 I was afraid but nothing else
happened; there was no other shooting. Later, before they left the house they told me to stay
in the house for a while and that when I heard a shot being fired I could leave. I did as they
said; I waited a bit and then took off the blindfold and left the house.75
According to Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, “The presence of a protected
person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”
The prohibition against the use of “human shields” is further clarified in Article 51(7) of the
Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the
Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Additional Protocol I). It states:
“Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual
civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military
operations.”
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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You have no evidence to support your statement. The ship was thoroughly searched by Israel and I never heard anything about guns and bombs. Would you care to admit that you made this up (AKA lied), or can you post a supporting link?


If there were no weapons on the ship it should have been released by now, did Israel release the ship or people yet?
 

Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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With your money and a water deal with Jordan and Lebanon who get paid with your money to buy water for Israel to grow a mango that has more subsidies than the mango is worth at market.

At least we get a mango. What are we getting for our aid to the Arab world? Death to America parades? Yippee.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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If there were no weapons on the ship it should have been released by now, did Israel release the ship or people yet?

No they haven't been released. They've been charged with entering Israel illegally, even though they were taken to Israel against their will.

UN expert says Israeli seizure of aid ship a crime
Thu Jul 2, 2009

GENEVA, July 2 (Reuters) - A U.N. human rights investigator on Thursday called Israel's seizure of a ship carrying relief aid for the Gaza Strip "unlawful" and said its blockade of the territory constituted a "continuing crime against humanity".

Israeli authorities on Tuesday intercepted the vessel, which was also carrying 21 pro-Palestinian activists, and said it would not be permitted to enter Gaza coastal waters because of security risks in the area and its existing naval blockade.

Richard Falk, the United Nations special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, said the move was part of Israel's "cruel blockade of the entire Palestinian population of Gaza" in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention prohibiting any form of collective punishment against "an occupied people".

Falk, an American expert on international law, said Israel's two-year blockade of Hamas-ruled Gaza restricted vital supplies such as food, medicine and fuel to "bare subsistence levels".

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said in a report this week that Israel was also halting entry to Gaza of building materials and spare parts needed to repair damage from its 22-day invasion late last December.

"Such a pattern of continuing blockade under these conditions amounts to such a serious violation of the Geneva Conventions as to constitute a continuing crime against humanity," Falk said in a statement released in Geneva.

Prior to leaving Cyprus, the ship was inspected by Cypriot authorities in response to Israeli demands to determine whether it carried any weapons, according to the U.N. investigator. "None were found and Israeli authorities were so informed."

"Nonetheless, the 21 peace activists on the boat were arrested, held in captivity and have been charged with 'illegal entry' to Israel even though they had no intention of going to Israel," Falk added....

UN expert says Israeli seizure of aid ship a crime | Reuters
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Israel abducts Nobel Laureate
Reminds me of the two reporters that NK says were trespassing. Israel better sentence the Laureate to 12 years of starvation, torture, and abuse.
It also reminds me of the Jewish cripple that some Palestinians killed (wish I had saved the story. I can't find it now). Anyway, between people's disrespect towards others and our planet, I think the words endangered species may apply to us some day..