Islam – The enemy within itself-

[darkbeaver]

Bible is fully as nasty, Coldstream, I am sure you are aware of what it says about homosexuals (Leviticus prescribes death penalty for them), witches (‘thou shalt not suffer a witch to live’, Exodus), about women, about unbelievers etc.

As a book I don’t think Bible is much better than Koran. The big difference is that most Christians do not take the Bible literally, even the so called Fundamentalists don’t take it literally. The same cannot be said of Muslims.

So how much faith to you suppose it indicates when most of its purchasers have no faith in what it says and what the hell kind of solid institutions members have no literal understanding of the charters passages? How do you suppose Muslims have survived and prospered this long by taking the entire Koran literally? If you'll take the time to add up the christian fundys I'm sure you'll come to the enevitable conclusion that your post is a perfectly stinky piece of dung, something we rarely experience in your contributions. I'm shocked and disillusioned.

 

[Goober]

You know better than that Goober, you have read my views on religion, on Christianity, both here and on Canada.com forum.

I have said it before, Bible contains good things and bad (so does Koran). There are good Christians (Mother Teresa, MLK, Jimmy Carter, Bishop Tutu etc.) and bad Christians (Dr. Dobson, Pat Robertson, Savonarola etc.).

Good Christians simply ignore all the nasty things that Bible says and only concentrate on good things (love thy neighbour, golden rule etc.), while bad Christians ignore all the things Bible says about love, charity, compassion and concentrate on bad things (witch burning, death to homosexuals, keeping women oppressed, persecuting the scientists in the Dark Ages etc.).

SJP

Well I try to be one of the good Christians – Difficult – yes – everyday can be difficult – but why do you seem to focus on the poor example until called to explain your position as I did. I already knew the answer – others did not – that creates an impression of hate or intolerance of Religion– rightly or wrongly people judge to quickly – Yes I am guilty of that but I own up to it – the vast majority do not.

 

[Goober]

Is there a holy book that isn't full of hate for the others? It is to be wished that others don't develope the way christianity did. That's pretty vitriolic contamination coming from you here in this thread. I'm thinking you are a poor ambassador for the alleged gentle jesus and grateful that I won't be entertaining conversion through your rough offices.

DB – As in everything – it is open for interpretation – what do you take to heart and what do you discard – that is what is important – what you discard, maybe?

 

[darkbeaver]

DB – As in everything – it is open for interpretation – what do you take to heart and what do you discard – that is what is important – what you discard, maybe?

"As in everything-it is open for interpretation." How shall we interpret that statement?
I think we have no choice, everything we consider is kept or we would be repeating the considerations over and over again never completeing the sequence of logic, that would be stagnation and death. Anything we take to heart is a function of that which we do not take to heart, those things we take to heart are incorporated into our actions those things we do not take to heart help build those that we do, no information is discarded and no information is useless. Action is a blend of information, both negative and positive, this provides a balance, harmony, a buzz with the ones vibrations and we sail on through to the other side.:smile:

 

[Goober]

"As in everything-it is open for interpretation." How shall we interpret that statement?
I think we have no choice, everything we consider is kept or we would be repeating the considerations over and over again never completeing the sequence of logic, that would be stagnation and death. Anything we take to heart is a function of that which we do not take to heart, those things we take to heart are incorporated into our actions those things we do not take to heart help build those that we do, no information is discarded and no information is useless. Action is a blend of information, both negative and positive, this provides a balance, harmony, a buzz with the ones vibrations and we sail on through to the other side.:smile:

DB - Yes I can see your point.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

So how much faith to you suppose it indicates when most of its purchasers have no faith in what it says

Darkbeaver, what it says is that many believers adopt a religion (mostly they are born into it) without finding out what the religion stands for. It is blind faith, many Christians or Muslims do not know what their Holy Book says. Many Christians are Archie Bunker Christians.

what the hell kind of solid institutions members have no literal understanding of the charters passages?

Most religions. Many religious people do not have a clear understanding of their own religion

How do you suppose Muslims have survived and prospered this long by taking the entire Koran literally?

I don’t see the problem here. History of Islam (same as history of Christianity until recently) is full of war, killing, torture, mayhem etc. I don’t see any conflict, any inconsistency between Muslims having survived and prospered on the one hand and their taking Koran literally on the other.

I'm sure you'll come to the enevitable conclusion that your post is a perfectly stinky piece of dung,

Gee, how do you really feel about it?.

 

[Goober]

"As in everything-it is open for interpretation." How shall we interpret that statement?
I think we have no choice, everything we consider is kept or we would be repeating the considerations over and over again never completeing the sequence of logic, that would be stagnation and death. Anything we take to heart is a function of that which we do not take to heart, those things we take to heart are incorporated into our actions those things we do not take to heart help build those that we do, no information is discarded and no information is useless. Action is a blend of information, both negative and positive, this provides a balance, harmony, a buzz with the ones vibrations and we sail on through to the other side.:smile:

DB – Your opinion on this is requested.
I received this email today and have also received it in the past as it has floated around the internet.

German View of Islam
This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email is said to be Dr. Emanuel Tanay, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.
A German's View on Islam
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous.
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.
And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:
Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.
Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts--the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.
PS – Searching the internet I found that this article was written by Paul E. Marek

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.

Gooebr, this sounds very much like a chain letter.

 

[Goober]

Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.

Gooebr, this sounds very much like a chain letter.

Of course it is - That does not leesen the points made though.

 

[Sparrow]

Where I don't agree is when a minority can oblige the majority to comply with their beliefs.

 

[Goober]

Where I don't agree is when a minority can oblige the majority to comply with their beliefs.

Sparrow

Not sure what you mean by that – your statement could be construed in a number of ways that you did not intend – could you give some specifics please.

 

[Spade]

Hi Goober!
Long time no see!
Cousin Spade

 

[Goober]

Hi Goober!
Long time no see!
Cousin Spade

Was away on vacation - delayed leaving because of the hurricane on the east coast - went to PEI - walked the beach at least once per day for hours, mostly twice a day - could fell the stress leaving this old body - have you ever been there?

 

[Cliffy]

Was away on vacation - delayed leaving because of the hurricane on the east coast - went to PEI - walked the beach at least once per day for hours, mostly twice a day - could fell the stress leaving this old body - have you ever been there?

How could you relax when the Muslims are coming?

I was in PEI in '69 and saw a UFO on the beach one night. Displayed very erratic behaviour and unreal speed.

 

[Goober]

How could you relax when the Muslims are coming?

I was in PEI in '69 and saw a UFO on the beach one night. Displayed very erratic behaviour and unreal speed.

I have the impression that you think I am Anti-Muslim which would be incorrect – I am Anti Fanatic anything -
I was also on the beach later in life as in 69 I was only 12– bottle of wine, plural, some reefers and I also saw UFO’s –

 

[Cliffy]

I have the impression that you think I am Anti-Muslim which would be incorrect – I am Anti Fanatic anything -
I was also on the beach later in life as in 69 I was only 12– bottle of wine, plural, some reefers and I also saw UFO’s –

Nah! It was just a good natured raz.
If I recall, I may have been trippin' on vitamin L in '69.

 

[Goober]

Nah! It was just a good natured raz.
If I recall, I may have been trippin' on vitamin L in '69.

My apologies my friend - I like you find dogmatic religion at time offensive - Myself I see God or whatever a person wishes to call it everywhere i look -
Yes i did vit l along with a large amount of peyote buttons - wow is all I have to say.

 

[Spade]

Was in PEI in '74. Ate the spuds and swam in ice-cold water! Just recovering now!

 

[Cliffy]

My apologies my friend - I like you find dogmatic religion at time offensive - Myself I see God or whatever a person wishes to call it everywhere i look -
Yes i did vit l along with a large amount of peyote buttons - wow is all I have to say.

Does peyote make jumping in the Atlantic any less traumatic? I couldn't go in the water that summer. My feet would cramp just dipping my toe.

 

[damngrumpy]

First of all I am not an uppity Christian, I was brought up a Christian but don't practice anything anymore. Religion itself Muslim, Christian and almost everything
is a major problem for us all. Fanatics come in all religions and political societies as
well. I am satisfied with the society we have. Someone sent me a great long e-mail about some Dr in Germany and his belief about how the Nazi and Communist
groups manipulated the system. Much of it is probably very accurate, but once the
majority realized they could benefit from the corruption of society they jumped on
board with both feet. I find myself in a bit of a quandary as I am not a conservative
either, in fact I support the political left most but not all of the time.
What I really object to is fanatics and fundamentalist Muslims wanting to enforce
their own law. We have a set of laws in Canada and they can damn well conform to the ones that exist. It should also be pointed out there is a big difference
between religious principals and societal customs. Religion should not supersede
the law regardless of who's religion it is. If these people can't conform to the law,
they should leave. The other thing the government should do is point out our lifestyle in Canada so they can decide whether they want to join us or not.
Outlawing a religion is like trying to stop booze or prostitution won't happen here.
It really comes down to our immigration officers and officials have to screen tougher.