Is this jesus or satan

[Cliffy]

ooops! double post

 

[AnnaG]

lol This is really funny guys. Are you sure it shouldn't be posted in the "Jokes & Fun" forum?

"Reality? When we say the written word has naught to do with reality we are in error. All our reality is of course human ideas."
Mr. Beaver, people can't stub their toes and wallop themselves on the head with ideas. Have another toke. Oh, no! Pot is only an "idea" and you are only deluding yourself into thinking it gives you a high. lmao

 

[Cliffy]

Ooops! I forgot to mention that there is also the right to believe or not believe in anything. To a believer in the bible, someone who believes in a different religion is the same as someone who doesn't believe in any religion. I believe reality is a hologram. I really don't care that anybody else believes it or not. It is just my opinion the second the thought leaves my mind and is put on paper, a monitor or a forum. I treat everybody else's beliefs the same way - as opinions. They are just part of the mosaic of the human process.

If you are hurt in the Matrix you bleed in the real world. If you die in the Matrix, you die in the real world. The principles presented in the movie were based on ancient wisdom, philosophical and spiritual beliefs.

 

[darkbeaver]

lol This is really funny guys. Are you sure it shouldn't be posted in the "Jokes & Fun" forum?

"Reality? When we say the written word has naught to do with reality we are in error. All our reality is of course human ideas."
Mr. Beaver, people can't stub their toes and wallop themselves on the head with ideas. Have another toke. Oh, no! Pot is only an "idea" and you are only deluding yourself into thinking it gives you a high. lmao

So I take it you've never felt pain or love from someones ideas and maybe you believe the written word does not move mountains? I'm sure when you think a bit about what you've said you will realize that you already knew it to be true. Ideas are everything for us.

 

[MHz]

There are literally millions of books in the world. The bible is not the only one. There are hundreds of holy books that predate the bible and just as many that came after, not to mention the thousands written about the holy books and there interpretation. We could get into books on philosophy, spirituality, metaphysics and science. Most of them dwarf the bible in possibility and probability. The problem with bible thumpers is that they do not bother to read anything but the bible or books about the bible and therefore have a rather narrow view of reality. The bible is not the end all and be all of guide books home.

In this case the Bible's view of certain things is the topic so why would you use any other text?.
Why shouldn't I be able to question how a person came to have this view (about what the Bible teaches)?
"how ludicrous, and abusive, then they invented a god to battle the devil,"
That teaching would seem to come from outside the Bible.

You can jump all over people who think that god is the universe, but who are you kidding. people believe whatever fits into their world view and that is not very often the same as yours. You are entitled to believe whatever nonsense you choose but then to be entitled to it, you must also accept that others are entitled to their own beliefs.

Are you trying to tell me who I can confront about statements made about the Bible? Already you try to slant the view that my belief (about the accuracy in Scripture)is false by calling it nonsense. Subtle is the claim that since mine is false then yours (or somebody else's) must be the correct one.
Do you even know you do this sort of thing constantly?

It is not a matter of who is right or wrong, but that everyone has a right to reach whatever form of enlightenment they choose in the way they choose to do it. Your way may be right for you but to say that the other's choice is wrong is to play god in that judgment. Not something I would want to face my maker with.

In this case it is a matter of being right and being able to prove you are right is a requirement. A comment was made that the Bible teaches us to be do what I quoted above. Exactly where does the Bible say that? That is a valid question to the comment made.

 

[darkbeaver]

Did you just make that up? With the most gentile of intentions, are you insane??? One of the skin mags back in the 70's had a cartoon of Jimmy Carter preaching to some near naked people (denoting stone-age, 3rd world. The caption read " I bring peace to you, and to make sure that peace is kept we brought a lot of guns." Even at the time it was a bang-on assessment. Cobalt and other speciality minerals are the reason for the interest. It has nothing at all to do with the enrichment of life for somebody else. It is a prime consideration in keeping costs as low as possible for western consumers.

That particular few words I did just makeup, but it's an old and venerated idea. you are maybe not thinking about good and evil in a logical manner, it's like hot and cold. Does your religious need stem from evil or from good? What would you do if there were no evil for you to practice good against and how could you possibly define good if not directly through contemplation of evil? "Keeping cost low for the western consumers is the prime consideration." Are you insane? Keeping cost low is for the producers MHZ, certainly not the dupes. If you'll consult the economics rags you'll invariably come to the conclusion that the west is hopelessly bankrupt, this is not a state brought about by low low prices.

Yet again this subject might have been anticipated, should sin abound so that grace can abound? A casual reading would suggest this might be the case. Reality shows it to be quite the opposite. It is one of a few topics that has the words in quote in the very next verse "God forbid". But then the quality of believing that opinion varies from person to person. That is one aspect of the relationship, there are a few more that a person might wish to be aware of.

Reality eh, perhaps it's not a good word for you to use so lightly without due considerations. Think of universal balance and harmony and the terrible wobble in the universe if it were not for equal parts of good and evil.

Where do some of you come up with this stuff?? I just finished jumping all over somebody who said something vaguely similar. Just like I will try not to jump on you for having this view I should not really take it to task with them either. It isn't like it is an opinion arrived at through due-coarse and/or independent thought/study. It is a matter of how a specific view on religion or some aspect of it has been acquired. Not all the parts of the Bible are gentle subjects. They do serve a purpose though, everything in Scripture is there for a reason that cannot be even slightly imagined on the 'introduction' read.

The One the Way the Universe the All and then there's your god the anthromorphism. You only imagine that the One revolves arround mankind and our tiny speck in the great big sea. You cannot expect to superimpose an anthropocentric perspective on the entirety and be happy, it will never fit.

A bit of digging says that our earth and our heaven (visible by any means) have finite lifespans. Fanatics will even care about the actual dates, if we have 4500 years of Bible history and the earth is 4.5 B already then when we are literally melted as a planet is when our sun (day 4 or whatever) ceases to be. On the '0'/day thing and we have a day that lasts 1,000 years and each year has 360 days the it works out to about 3.6B years from now, if there is no God. Time to start building that new Ark or perish. Whoopsi we'll all will be dead from the effects of old-age by time things really matter about that event.

The earth will perish the heavens will change, not the tiniest particle will be lost the One will remain undisturbed, permanent and the wisest of the wise.

Probably more to do with the vanity of personal gratification than impotance of truth getting out. I should know by now that knowledge is met with contempt before consideration. Even with the gift of consideration it is no small step to acceptance and then clarity. Time and again things I have read about how Scripture works comes to bear fruit. Always after the one who originally inspired the concept had left. That doesn't distract from the fact that what we know today isn't written in stone, that it also not the end of our ability lo learn new things

You may be confusing the basic and perpetual human considerations for knowedge itself. Of course much of what you read in the bible has borne fruit as those ideas have bourne fruit long before there was the written word long before there was ever a little town called Bethlehem. You ascribe the origins to the son and not the father then? Much of what we know today is literally written in stone. There is nothing new under the sun.

Death is our best advisor, evil is an unforgiving teacher of love. Does a flower not grow in ****? It's always a pleasure talking to you MHZ. Am I insane? That's impossible for me to answer. :smile:

 

[MHz]

That particular few words I did just makeup, but it's an old and venerated idea. you are maybe not thinking about good and evil in a logical manner, it's like hot and cold. Does your religious need stem from evil or from good? What would you do if there were no evil for you to practice good against and how could you possibly define good if not directly through contemplation of evil? "Keeping cost low for the western consumers is the prime consideration." Are you insane? Keeping cost low is for the producers MHZ, certainly not the dupes. If you'll consult the economics rags you'll invariably come to the conclusion that the west is hopelessly bankrupt, this is not a state brought about by low low prices.

The best link to support the low-cost thing is Africa produces one component that is every cell-phone. The low that can be acquired the cheaper the phones will be. Only the ones making any money are the ones who have possession of the goods when it is loaded on the boats. In debt no doubt, the printing presses are still running and may for some time to come. Even if she suffered extreme poverty the money she had would be circulating in some other hot-spot that is trendy for some time and then ..... it moves on again.
So if the west is left totally broke somebody/somewhere is using the newer cheaper phones. Give them away if you have too. The real profits are in the time sold to those who can afford it. Not that being able to keep in touch is a bad thing. It should be available in the most remote places. Some in the backest of woods would find this site totally amusing. ... Hey wait, that's my neck of the woods. From our own province all the way down to the rivers of the Amazon in your 'connected' electric kyyack (no patent as all the hardware is available, to recharge turn ass to usptream and leave in the fast wayet overnight. Next day another 30MI, texting the whole way and paddle to straighten your nose Golf-cart style. That way you can text and your paddle hits the water a handful of times. At $10/day all other forms of tourism would come to a screeching halt, or keep pace. How about a tour to the place the vital part to you being able to connect 'from the sourse' is like for those who actually are the miners. Child slavery doesn't get high rating on what is actually watched

Reality eh, perhaps it's not a good word for you to use so lightly without due considerations. Think of universal balance and harmony and the terrible wobble in the universe if it were not for equal parts of good and evil.

Or we could shorten it to what is in front of you that has to be dealth with, the sooner the better. All out textex communications are real because there is a keyboard and there are symbols on a screen. The reality of other things that happen in ones life can change that pattern.
This reminds me of a push/replulse theory. If the moon had not collioded with the earth with enough force to 'wobble us' the we may have been quite different today. You mention the galactic alignment yet care nothing for our 32.000 yr (or whatever) wobble. Why is that not like putting a being that is meant for stable motion like a land-luber going to sea for the first time. Wobbly at the very least.

The One the Way the Universe the All and then there's your god the anthromorphism. You only imagine that the One revolves arround mankind and our tiny speck in the great big sea. You cannot expect to superimpose an anthropocentric perspective on the entirety and be happy, it will never fit.

How small are we compared to God??, we can't yet define it because we can't define God. He put His thoughts down a long time ago. In the contest of intelligence and making your thoughts knwn. Dust on the scales it about the extent of it when compared to the importance of all living things ever created. I can live with that quite comfortabably.

The earth will perish the heavens will change, not the tiniest particle will be lost the One will remain undisturbed, permanent and the wisest of the wise.

Still we expect the belt of Orion to keep on doing what it has always done. How many of our earthly texts would need amending if the positioning changed quite fast and to quite an extent?

You may be confusing the basic and perpetual human considerations for knowedge itself. Of course much of what you read in the bible has borne fruit as those ideas have bourne fruit long before there was the written word long before there was ever a little town called Bethlehem. You ascribe the origins to the son and not the father then? Much of what we know today is literally written in stone. There is nothing new under the sun.

If the dead do not rise then my fait is in vain. That is about as boilded down as it gets. Kindnesses and cruelities were known to me before I ever heard of the Bible. You would have to see how every word is intertwined to other words. Normall a feast would be a cause for celebration, one such feast in Scripture has people doing this.

Zep:2:15:
This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly,
that said in her heart,
I am,
and there is none beside me:
how is she become a desolation,
a place for beasts to lie down in!
every one that passeth by her shall hiss,
and wag his hand.

Death is our best advisor, evil is an unforgiving teacher of love. Does a flower not grow in ****? It's always a pleasure talking to you MHZ. Am I insane? That's impossible for me to answer. :smile:

Death ends up being a release from a body that has gradually quit working.
Two different answers when you ask somebody 20 and somebody 100 about their thoughts on them and their ultimate relationship with death.
My answer would be no, only a fool would make decisions without exploring both aspects of the sane /insane aspects of certain topics, like is something God did sane or insane even at our current standards.

When a cow craps on a tiny flower, is more likely than not that should the same type of flower to appear at that very spot it is a different flower.

Am I insane/sane, reading Scripture didn't come about till near the age of 40. Obeying the Law of the land and being kind was not foreign to me before then, nor was being at the courthouse for certain minor infractions.
Fights even broke out over parking stalls. They don't today. I doubt the Bible was the cause of that change, a difference in tact and words used are the more likely changes, since I still get the stall I want. LOL being given a finger by the lady in the BMW just makes me chuckle. When I have a valuable rid I parked a long ways from the crowds of cars.

Too tired to edit, hope you can still understand everything written.

 

[AnnaG]

So I take it you've never felt pain or love from someones ideas and maybe you believe the written word does not move mountains? I'm sure when you think a bit about what you've said you will realize that you already knew it to be true. Ideas are everything for us.

Speak for yourself. Ideas are not "everything" to all of us. Ideas are only tools.

 

[Spade]

YouTube - Paul Newman - Cool Hand Luke - "Plastic Jesus"

 

[darkbeaver]

Speak for yourself. Ideas are not "everything" to all of us. Ideas are only tools.

Somebody had ideas about tools didn't they?:lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

The best link to support the low-cost thing is Africa produces one component that is every cell-phone. The low that can be acquired the cheaper the phones will be. Only the ones making any money are the ones who have possession of the goods when it is loaded on the boats. In debt no doubt, the printing presses are still running and may for some time to come. Even if she suffered extreme poverty the money she had would be circulating in some other hot-spot that is trendy for some time and then ..... it moves on again.
So if the west is left totally broke somebody/somewhere is using the newer cheaper phones. Give them away if you have too. The real profits are in the time sold to those who can afford it. Not that being able to keep in touch is a bad thing. It should be available in the most remote places. Some in the backest of woods would find this site totally amusing. ... Hey wait, that's my neck of the woods. From our own province all the way down to the rivers of the Amazon in your 'connected' electric kyyack (no patent as all the hardware is available, to recharge turn ass to usptream and leave in the fast wayet overnight. Next day another 30MI, texting the whole way and paddle to straighten your nose Golf-cart style. That way you can text and your paddle hits the water a handful of times. At $10/day all other forms of tourism would come to a screeching halt, or keep pace. How about a tour to the place the vital part to you being able to connect 'from the sourse' is like for those who actually are the miners. Child slavery doesn't get high rating on what is actually watched


Or we could shorten it to what is in front of you that has to be dealth with, the sooner the better. All out textex communications are real because there is a keyboard and there are symbols on a screen. The reality of other things that happen in ones life can change that pattern.
This reminds me of a push/replulse theory. If the moon had not collioded with the earth with enough force to 'wobble us' the we may have been quite different today. You mention the galactic alignment yet care nothing for our 32.000 yr (or whatever) wobble. Why is that not like putting a being that is meant for stable motion like a land-luber going to sea for the first time. Wobbly at the very least.


How small are we compared to God??, we can't yet define it because we can't define God. He put His thoughts down a long time ago. In the contest of intelligence and making your thoughts knwn. Dust on the scales it about the extent of it when compared to the importance of all living things ever created. I can live with that quite comfortabably.


Still we expect the belt of Orion to keep on doing what it has always done. How many of our earthly texts would need amending if the positioning changed quite fast and to quite an extent?


If the dead do not rise then my fait is in vain. That is about as boilded down as it gets. Kindnesses and cruelities were known to me before I ever heard of the Bible. You would have to see how every word is intertwined to other words. Normall a feast would be a cause for celebration, one such feast in Scripture has people doing this.

Zep:2:15:
This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly,
that said in her heart,
I am,
and there is none beside me:
how is she become a desolation,
a place for beasts to lie down in!
every one that passeth by her shall hiss,
and wag his hand.


Death ends up being a release from a body that has gradually quit working.
Two different answers when you ask somebody 20 and somebody 100 about their thoughts on them and their ultimate relationship with death.
My answer would be no, only a fool would make decisions without exploring both aspects of the sane /insane aspects of certain topics, like is something God did sane or insane even at our current standards.

When a cow craps on a tiny flower, is more likely than not that should the same type of flower to appear at that very spot it is a different flower.

Am I insane/sane, reading Scripture didn't come about till near the age of 40. Obeying the Law of the land and being kind was not foreign to me before then, nor was being at the courthouse for certain minor infractions.
Fights even broke out over parking stalls. They don't today. I doubt the Bible was the cause of that change, a difference in tact and words used are the more likely changes, since I still get the stall I want. LOL being given a finger by the lady in the BMW just makes me chuckle. When I have a valuable rid I parked a long ways from the crowds of cars.

Too tired to edit, hope you can still understand everything written.

Understand everything written? You ask too much from me, I don't think I'll have time for that, I'm very busy with the disappearing chickens today.The chickens and I have helped raise a litter of foxes this summer, just at brunch an juvenial fox took a 1kg chicken out of my yard while I was five meters away in the lab making coffee it came back twenty minutes later while I was cleaning the mud wasp cacoon out of the barrel of the old 22, I know they're waiting in the bushes for me to fall asleep, then the carnage will be biblical. Labour gets screwed every time, that's the law of capitalism.I don't think your insane by the way but coming from me that's not going to help, I guess.:smile:

 

[Spade]

Understand everything written? You ask too much from me, I don't think I'll have time for that, I'm very busy with the disappearing chickens today.The chickens and I have helped raise a litter of foxes this summer, just at brunch an juvenial fox took a 1kg chicken out of my yard while I was five meters away in the lab making coffee it came back twenty minutes later while I was cleaning the mud wasp cacoon out of the barrel of the old 22, I know they're waiting in the bushes for me to fall asleep, then the carnage will be biblical. Labour gets screwed every time, that's the law of capitalism.I don't think your insane by the way but coming from me that's not going to help, I guess.:smile:

Perhaps your chickens have been raptured. Were they born-againers from double yolkers?

 

[MHz]

Understand everything written? You ask too much from me, I don't think I'll have time for that, I'm very busy with the disappearing chickens today.The chickens and I have helped raise a litter of foxes this summer, just at brunch an juvenial fox took a 1kg chicken out of my yard while I was five meters away in the lab making coffee it came back twenty minutes later while I was cleaning the mud wasp cacoon out of the barrel of the old 22, I know they're waiting in the bushes for me to fall asleep, then the carnage will be biblical. Labour gets screwed every time, that's the law of capitalism.I don't think your insane by the way but coming from me that's not going to help, I guess.:smile:

Perhaps your chickens need some protection, something in the razor sharpness in a brand new set of fighting spurs. Roosters were more Perhaps a shot of cayenne cologne. A liberal dose (avoiding the eyes) would make just grabbing done would make a skunk gag. The wise world has yet to remedy that situation. Put up a sign an everything will be all right.
Even a mudball .22 is gonna leave a bruise no matter how fresh and loose. .....takes the old musket-ball thing to a whoe ne ecological level. Over toxisity and availability.... we have a winner as rock-salt is not always available where gumbo is ore than available.. lol That is a great stride for pece. If it hardens before discharge might as well have left in the hard-stuff. Deadly weapon vs total and complete anoyance to any other thoughts than imediate flight How much difference in Canadian court costs? The savings would almost be a 'gift''. 100 years ago or less a man could be killed just because he needed killing. Today it would seem that, well it isn't a blanket penality when all legal cases are considered.
If you consider it you duty to help nature perhaps you should buy more than you will actually bee. Amount dependent on the fox population that you eventually want I suppose.

Wisdom comes a drop at a time, there is no sudden warm-engulfing flood.
In the insanity of labor why was Job given even more than Satan took from him. You don't need belief to read a spreadsheet. God rewarded him, why??

 

[Spade]

Perhaps your chickens need some protection, something in the razor sharpness in a brand new set of fighting spurs?

YouTube - Monty Python and the Holy Chicken

 

[darkbeaver]

Perhaps your chickens have been raptured. Were they born-againers from double yolkers?

There is no perhaps about it, I have tracked down several of the spots where the actual rapturing took place and several others where the post rapture transformation into plant mana was bestowed upon the earth. I can only wonder at gods lust for the chicken faithfully provided by his now reluctant servant DB.

 

[Spade]

Perhaps your chickens were fowly sacrificed?
YouTube - ANIMAL SACRIFICE

 

[darkbeaver]

Monty Python wins again.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...why was Job given even more than Satan took from him. ... God rewarded him, why??

Job got more only in material terms. God allowed Satan to murder all Job's children, then gave him ten more to replace them, as if that'd make up for it, as if children are as disposable as livestock. The story of Job is about the question of why we suffer, and there are two threads in it, one of which concludes that suffering is a punishment from god for disobedience, despite the fact that Job is presented as blameless and innocent, the other concludes that it's just one of life's little mysteries, there's no explanation for it because god can do whatever he bloody well wants and doesn't have to justify himself to us. That's typical of scripture, it utterly fails to provide a satisfactory answer to the question of why we suffer. Science, on the other hand, does, essentially because what it can tell us is how nature actually is, not how we'd like it to be.

 

[In Between Man]

and there are two threads in it, one of which concludes that suffering is a punishment from god for disobedience, despite the fact that Job is presented as blameless and innocent,

Not quite. Its made clear to us that Job is still a sinner. And THAT'S one of the threads: Troubled times are going to come to everyone. Whether your lifelong cheat and crook, or even if your a saint, because we're all sinners under the curse of the law.

the other concludes that it's just one of life's little mysteries, there's no explanation for it because god can do whatever he bloody well wants and doesn't have to justify himself to us.

No mystery. When troubled times hit, most naturally have hope that it will be better. And your faith(truly believing that victory is yours through God's hand)is how God expects you to act.

That's typical of scripture, it utterly fails to provide a satisfactory answer to the question of why we suffer.

You've just run into "baby-Christians" in the past I gather. Fortunately you have a master apologist right here Dex. ;-);-);-)

Science, on the other hand, does, essentially because what it can tell us is how nature actually is, not how we'd like it to be.

Science does an excellent job of discovering, measuring, and understanding the gears of the creation.

 

[Cliffy]

Not quite. Its made clear to us that Job is still a sinner. And THAT'S one of the threads: Troubled times are going to come to everyone. Whether your lifelong cheat and crook, or even if your a saint, because we're all sinners under the curse of the law.

No mystery. When troubled times hit, most naturally have hope that it will be better. And your faith(truly believing that victory is yours through God's hand)is how God expects you to act.

You've just run into "baby-Christians" in the past I gather. Fortunately you have a master apologist right here Dex. ;-);-);-)

Science does an excellent job of discovering, measuring, and understanding the gears of the creation.

Scripture only makes sense if you believe it. If you don't, it is just a bunch of nonsense. In fact, your explanation doesn't make any sense unless you believe the bible is the word of gawd. In reading what you said, I am left wondering how a perfect, seemingly intelligent human can believe his own gibberish. It all looks like mental gymnastics to justify the belief in something unjustifiable. I read the bible and all I come away with is the god in it is a psychopathic, sadistic lunatic. But I like you anywayz. Go figure!?