Is the Breivik right regarding the growing Muslim threat?

Are Muslims a threat to our way of life and democratic institutions?.


  • Total voters
    24

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I call him an apologist, because I too polite to call him anything else...

Not me. Must be the Devil in me.........
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Most Muslims publicly reject fanatical Muslims who resort to violence or terrorism to further their agenda...

Yep. Most do.

But a very significant number do NOT. Enough that Mubin Shaikh is unable to attend most mosques in Toronto. Enough that Muslim witnesses against the Shafia family are ostracized.

Why? If the Muslim community is so united against terror, why is that so???
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Nice dodge, "Their statements typically don't make our news" Referring to elsewhere? I could care less about elsewhere, it is my county and people that concern me.

I pay attention to Canadian news and have to dig deep to find any Muslims saying anything resembling condemnation of their fanatical bretheren. Some of it is fear of retribution, not much of that visible when anyone condemns a Christian dogma here.
If you do not condemn terrorism you are not innocent.

You live in a dream world EAO, come out on the sidewalk in mainstream Canada with me for a while, you will be even more worried that your carefully disingenuous agenda is for naught. Take heart though, you will find SOME D'himmis like yourself. Oh and btw, i am non religious.

Regarding Brevik, he is just another psycho, one of a tiny amount compared to confirmed Islamic terrorists, unless of course as usual you lump in everyone who has done formal military service in the west.

I really do not give a rats ass what you think of me, i just know that when push comes to shove, peeps like me will treat peeps you as a fifth columnist.
I believe you when you claim you never heard of a Muslim condemning fanatical attack by a radical Muslim fundamentalist or that you have to dig for it. I pointed out that most Muslims do condemn these attacks and that our news just doesn't report it. Not knowing about the condemnations doesn't mean they don't exist only that you are ignorant of them.

So if our news doesn't report sane Muslim condemnations of crazy Muslim actions and you have no interest in digging for them, how are sane Muslims supposed to let you know? Do you expect sane Muslims to buy space in newspapers and make commercials condemning carzy Muslim actions to get the word out, or is the problem with our news not reporting their statements and you not caring to read about it?

BTW, aren't you a white guy and not particularly religious just like Breivik. If so, when are you going to buy advertising space in a Norwegian newspaper to condemn Breivik's actions? Norwegians have no idea whether you support or condemn Breivik. Sure you labelled Breivik a psycho on some obscure forum, but that's hardly a strong condemnation of a mass murderer. Also not many Norwegians are on this forum. Applying the same standard on you as you apply to all Muslim, should Norwegians assume that you support Breivik until they read your harsh condemnation of Breivik in the Norwegian news? If you really opposed Breivik you would have used harsher words than psycho and rented space in Norwegian newspapers. Have you done this? If you haven't then its pretty safe for Norwegians to assume that you really agree with Breivik and support what he did.

IMO, your expectations that sane Muslims are obligated to condemn crazy Muslims or do more than make a statement of condemnation is unrealistic. People should only have to apologize for their own actions. If they say and do nothing, then that means nothing. If sane Muslims condemn the words and actions of crazy Muslims and you don't know about it, then your ignorance of their statements is the problem. One I tried to correct by posting a reference to sane Muslim condemnations of the words and actions of crazy Muslims. I noticed how little that new information changed your opinion of Muslims.

Your problem is you know little about Muslims beyond the stereotypical negative portrayals in the MSM. Very like you visit the same anti-Muslim hate websites visited by Breivik. You aren't that different than a Muslim who only reads the Muslim news and only knows what they report about crazy Christians. Very likely a group of Muslims are reading about Breivik in their news and they have a perception that most non-religious white guys are like Breivik or support Breivik, in the same way that you believe that most Muslims are like Bin Laden or support Bin Laden.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I believe you when you claim you never heard of a Muslim condemning fanatical attack by a radical Muslim fundamentalist or that you have to dig for it. I pointed out that most Muslims do condemn these attacks and that our news just doesn't report it. Not knowing about the condemnations doesn't mean they don't exist only that you are ignorant of them.

So if our news doesn't report sane Muslim condemnations of crazy Muslim actions and you have no interest in digging for them, how are sane Muslims supposed to let you know? Do you expect sane Muslims to buy space in newspapers and make commercials condemning carzy Muslim actions to get the word out, or is the problem with our news not reporting their statements and you not caring to read about it?

BTW, aren't you a white guy and not particularly religious just like Breivik. If so, when are you going to buy advertising space in a Norwegian newspaper to condemn Breivik's actions? Norwegians have no idea whether you support or condemn Breivik. Sure you labelled Breivik a psycho on some obscure forum, but that's hardly a strong condemnation of a mass murderer. Also not many Norwegians are on this forum. Applying the same standard on you as you apply to all Muslim, should Norwegians assume that you support Breivik until they read your harsh condemnation of Breivik in the Norwegian news? If you really opposed Breivik you would have used harsher words than psycho and rented space in Norwegian newspapers. Have you done this? If you haven't then its pretty safe for Norwegians to assume that you really agree with Breivik and support what he did.

IMO, your expectations that sane Muslims are obligated to condemn crazy Muslims or do more than make a statement of condemnation is unrealistic. People should only have to apologize for their own actions. If they say and do nothing, then that means nothing. If sane Muslims condemn the words and actions of crazy Muslims and you don't know about it, then your ignorance of their statements is the problem. One I tried to correct by posting a reference to sane Muslim condemnations of the words and actions of crazy Muslims. I noticed how little that new information changed your opinion of Muslims.

Your problem is you know little about Muslims beyond the stereotypical negative portrayals in the MSM. Very like you visit the same anti-Muslim hate websites visited by Breivik. You aren't that different than a Muslim who only reads the Muslim news and only knows what they report about crazy Christians. Very likely a group of Muslims are reading about Breivik in their news and they have a perception that most non-religious white guys are like Breivik or support Breivik, in the same way that you believe that most Muslims are like Bin Laden or support Bin Laden.

I see that the beef you ate some time ago is starting to show its affect.
 

skookumchuck

Council Member
Jan 19, 2012
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I believe you when you claim you never heard of a Muslim condemning fanatical attack by a radical Muslim fundamentalist or that you have to dig for it. I pointed out that most Muslims do condemn these attacks and that our news just doesn't report it. Not knowing about the condemnations doesn't mean they don't exist only that you are ignorant of them.

So if our news doesn't report sane Muslim condemnations of crazy Muslim actions and you have no interest in digging for them, how are sane Muslims supposed to let you know? Do you expect sane Muslims to buy space in newspapers and make commercials condemning carzy Muslim actions to get the word out, or is the problem with our news not reporting their statements and you not caring to read about it?

BTW, aren't you a white guy and not particularly religious just like Breivik. If so, when are you going to buy advertising space in a Norwegian newspaper to condemn Breivik's actions? Norwegians have no idea whether you support or condemn Breivik. Sure you labelled Breivik a psycho on some obscure forum, but that's hardly a strong condemnation of a mass murderer. Also not many Norwegians are on this forum. Applying the same standard on you as you apply to all Muslim, should Norwegians assume that you support Breivik until they read your harsh condemnation of Breivik in the Norwegian news? If you really opposed Breivik you would have used harsher words than psycho and rented space in Norwegian newspapers. Have you done this? If you haven't then its pretty safe for Norwegians to assume that you really agree with Breivik and support what he did.

IMO, your expectations that sane Muslims are obligated to condemn crazy Muslims or do more than make a statement of condemnation is unrealistic. People should only have to apologize for their own actions. If they say and do nothing, then that means nothing. If sane Muslims condemn the words and actions of crazy Muslims and you don't know about it, then your ignorance of their statements is the problem. One I tried to correct by posting a reference to sane Muslim condemnations of the words and actions of crazy Muslims. I noticed how little that new information changed your opinion of Muslims.

Your problem is you know little about Muslims beyond the stereotypical negative portrayals in the MSM. Very like you visit the same anti-Muslim hate websites visited by Breivik. You aren't that different than a Muslim who only reads the Muslim news and only knows what they report about crazy Christians. Very likely a group of Muslims are reading about Breivik in their news and they have a perception that most non-religious white guys are like Breivik or support Breivik, in the same way that you believe that most Muslims are like Bin Laden or support Bin Laden.

Give it up d'himmi, your contention that Canadian (or American) media do not report Muslim condemnation of their own is a joke. In a war of words you are shooting blanks boy.
I have never visited a hate or white supremicist site of any type. I just have well over 60 years of deciding what is BS and what is not.
Your assumption that i know little about Muslims is way off the mark but i think you profess to know too much. In fact i would contribute to send you back, or if incorrect, at least back to rabble where you can babble BS to willing and non discriminating ears.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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So you can find a Muslim organization that is supportive of anti-terror organizations. Big deal.

I can find a whole lot more Muslim organizations that are not.

How about CAIR??? The front for the Muslim brotherhood, and one of the most influential Muslim organizations in North America.

What about non-violent attacks on western values? Death sentences by fatwa on authors and cartoonists? Legal attacks on free speech....such as the attacks on Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant???

For every single moderate outspoken Muslim you can find, I can list three loonies.

There is no moderate Islam. Only Muslims that fail to follow the road of Jihad, and much credit to them.

But at the core of it, Islam and western democratic society are incompatible.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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So you can find a Muslim organization that is supportive of anti-terror organizations. Big deal.

I can find a whole lot more Muslim organizations that are not.

How about CAIR??? The front for the Muslim brotherhood, and one of the most influential Muslim organizations in North America.

What about non-violent attacks on western values? Death sentences by fatwa on authors and cartoonists? Legal attacks on free speech....such as the attacks on Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant???

For every single moderate outspoken Muslim you can find, I can list three loonies.

There is no moderate Islam. Only Muslims that fail to follow the road of Jihad, and much credit to them.

But at the core of it, Islam and western democratic society are incompatible.

For every single moderate <insert religious bias here> I can find three loonies too. The loonies are newsworthy, but they aren't the majority. The normal majority don't get near the coverage they deserve

This is Islam:

What is Islam?
The word "Islam" is an Arabic word that means "submitting and surrendering your will to Almighty God". The word comes from the same root as the Arabic word "salam", which means peace. Unlike the names used for other religions, such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity, the name “Islam” was both revealed by God and mentioned explicitly in the Holy Scripture – The Qur’an. Islam carries a deep spiritual meaning — only by submitting one’s will to Almighty God can one obtain true peace both in this life and in the life hereafter. Islam teaches that all religions originally had the same essential message — which was to submit whole-heartedly to the will of God and to worship Him and Him alone. For this reason, Islam is not a new religion but is the same divinely revealed Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

What are the Teachings of Islam?
The foundation of the Islamic faith is belief in the Unity of God. This means to believe that there is only one Creator and Sustainer of everything in the Universe, and that nothing is divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Him.

What is the Qur'an?
It is the final revelation of the will of Almighty God's to all of mankind, which was conveyed through the Angel Gabriel, in Arabic, to the Prophet Muhammad in its sounds, words and meanings. The Qur’an (sometimes spelled Koran), was relayed to the Prophet's companions, which they memorized verbatim, and which has been publicly and continually recited by them and their successors until the present day.

Muslim Association of Canada - About Islam

Sounds scary.

Breivik was an unintended consequence of a tsunami of anti-Islam hate propaganda in the MSM and websites he frequented.

That few people here give a crap about our war criminals killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslim civilians is deliberate.
 
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Colpy

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Jusy some of the "will of God" as expressed in the Koran:

SURA 9:5: …slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.
SURA 2:191: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SURA 2:194: And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil).
SURA 2:254: …The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers
SURA 4:89: They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them
SURA 4:91: If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

Religion of peace my furry arse!!!
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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bad idea to quote PARTS of the Koran when Talmidic and Biblical crap is just as disgusting in PARTS.

maybe all three need to sit down and do an amalgamated book with the ****ty parts removed.
 

Sparrow

Council Member
Nov 12, 2006
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The media and government spokespersons have been spreading anti-Muslim rhetoric for years. Because of this some people are really afraid of all Muslims. What is seriously wrong is they never emphasized was that these terrorists were not the majority, which many deduced by themselves however there are many that did not.

My objection comes in when they try to change our way of life. This has happened in the past but as far as I know today these points of contention have been resolved. But I can understand how they must be apprehensive at the thought of changing their way of life that has been taught to them since their childhood. They come to a strange and very different world, plus their are members of the community like some Imams and others who threaten them if they change in the slightest. It will take time for them to change, but it will start with their children who mix with our society, these are the ones we must protect and help to feel comfortable with our way of living.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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bad idea to quote PARTS of the Koran when Talmidic and Biblical crap is just as disgusting in PARTS.

maybe all three need to sit down and do an amalgamated book with the ****ty parts removed.

Yep....if you go back into the Old Testament, there are some pretty bloody and questionable parts......the difference is that CHRISTIANS are followers of Christ, who took the old religion to a much kinder and gentler tolerant place............

Find me an encouragement to blood and murder in the New Testament.

And Christ, who preached forgiveness, and sacrifice is the example.

As opposed to the followers of the war-monger, pedophile, genocidal murderer and rapist Mohammed...........
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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A quote out of context means nothing.

Quotes out of context deliberately chosen to be as misleading as possible are obviously manipulative:

Here is the start of the Sura 9:

9.1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.

9.2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.

9.3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

9.4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

9.5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

9.6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

9.7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

The rest of the Sure here:
Surat At-Tawbah - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

A group of polytheists made an agreement with the Muslims that they would be allowed to do Hajj (Holy Pilgrimage to Mecca) . The Muslims held up their end of the agreement, but the polytheists repeatedly denied them the right to do Hajj. They blocked them even though they had fulfilled their part of the bargain. So they were given a warning over a period of of time and then if they did not allow them to do Hajj than they were given permission to fight the polytheists who had violated the agreement. But were clearly told not to harm those who had not violated the agreements. In Islam at the time Muslims were forbidden to fight without permission. This was permission to go to war. A Muslim equivalent of a just cause. People who kept their word could not be harmed. People who plead for protection would be protected.

Wow what a relief!
After I read Coply's version of Sura9, I was afraid the Muslim guy who sells me nuts in the the mall was planning to slay me. But now that I read the whole Sura in context, got an explanation from a Muslim, I now know its not a good idea to break your word when promise to let a Muslim travel to Mecca. I have nothing to fear thankfully. I just hope his boss doesn't cancel his vacation plans.... That could get ugly!
 
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