Is penal labour acceptable?

[petros]

Tommy Witherspoon at the Waco Tribune is documenting unsavory practices between county sheriffs and private prison profiteers. According to recent reports, McLennan County Sheriff Larry Lynch will not take additional money from Community Education Centers (CEC) ("Sheriff will not receive additional stipend when new jail opens" Waco Tribune, September 26, 2009).
A known practice in Texas is the payment of funds to county Sheriffs by private prison companies. According to state law, Sheriffs must authorize a private detention company's presence in the county under its jurisdiction.
Lynch had been on the private prison payroll for years; CEC paid him and his predecessors a monthly stipend of $1,000 in addition to their annual salaries. The kick-back paid to county sheriffs has been a source of tension in McClennan County for years. McClennan County sheriffs collect private prison profits through the contract agreement between the county and private prison companies. CEC acquired CivicGenics.
In 2008, local officials debated whether to authorize the construction of a new privately operated jail in the area. And former State Representative Kevin Bailey, then Chair of the Committee on Urban Affairs, requested an opinion of the Attorney General. Bailey's request can be found here. It seems that the AG never issued an opinion.
While not all county sheriffs who contract with private prison companies receive an addtional stipend, Witherspoon's investigative reporting has uncovered that CEC operates a 1,000-bed facility in Limestone County. Sheriff Dennis Wilson, whose county annual salary is $49,457, is paid a $24,000 stipend yearly by the county in its contract with CEC, Wilson said.
Perhaps now is a time for another request from an elected official interested in holding county sheriffs and private prison companies accountable.
Witherspoon is doing a good job of tracking this information. A bill introduced last session that outlawed such practices died on the House floor. If such a policy gets resurrected in 2011 it will be interesting to see what the AG has to say.
Related stories:

• Lawmaker Requests AG Opinion
• HB 3903/Private Prison Oversight Hearing on Monday
• More Heat for CEC/CiviGenics in McLennan County; CLEAT Calls for Investigation
• McLennan County Seeking New Private Jail
• Sheriff gets $12K a year from Civigenics

YouTube - ‪Privatized Prisons and Prison Labor IS Slavery‬‏

 

[Just the Facts]

So what's the worry?

I said what the worry is. If I had a business that involved raking leaves, cutting grass, picking up trash or cleaning graffiti, I'd be justifyable pissed off about this:


Offenders should be made accountable for their own actions, and that includes making them give back to society. Inmates in provincial facilities will be required to perform manual labour up to 40 hours per week to earn their stay in prison. Work that would include:
o Raking leaves
o Cutting grass
o Picking up trash
o Cleaning graffiti
http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3141336

Also, seeing that there are only so many convicts, once they're all hired out, then what? And considering that prison labour would build up their self-confidence and skills, they're less likely to reoffend, meaning an even smaller pool of convicts.

Yeah, but all the people put out of work by the cheap prison labour that they couldn't compete with would be more likely to offend, meaning a growing pool of convicts.

 

[Machjo]

I said what the worry is. If I had a business that involved raking leaves, cutting grass, picking up trash or cleaning graffiti, I'd be justifyable pissed off about this:


Offenders should be made accountable for their own actions, and that includes making them give back to society. Inmates in provincial facilities will be required to perform manual labour up to 40 hours per week to earn their stay in prison. Work that would include:
o Raking leaves
o Cutting grass
o Picking up trash
o Cleaning graffiti
http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3141336





Yeah, but all the people put out of work by the cheap prison labour that they couldn't compete with would be more likely to offend, meaning a growing pool of convicts.

You're not looking at the big picture here.

If a convict is busy raking leaves, that means he's contributing to his own upkeep, thus freeing up more tax revenue to pay for skills education for the unemployed.

So yes, you might lose your jobs, but then you'd get free education to upgrade your skills, meaning you might be able to earn an even higher income later.

Besides, why would you want to get into the same business as convicts if you can't compete with them?

And remember too that if prisons want maximum revenue, they won't get a convicted computer programmer to rake leaves. instead, they might get him to do other work involving computer programming work that they or some other government department needs.

And if I'm a convict let out of prison and unable to find work, again the government could pay for skills education for me as needed.

Yeah, but all the people put out of work by the cheap prison labour that they couldn't compete with would be more likely to offend, meaning a growing pool of convicts.

Not if it means free education for them.

I'm not much of a socialist overall, but do believe in teaching a man to fish, perhaps one of the few areas where I'm more socialistic at least in the sense that I believe education should be freely available to all.

 

[JLM]

Sure, if they wanna work they can work. One team goes along the perimeter of the prison yard digging a ditch, and a second team follows a few yards behind them, filling it in. Other than that, keep them out of the economy. Why should a landscaper, for example, who risks his life savings to start a landscaping business, be forced to compete with prison labour?

I think there is enough potential work out there for both. The world is quite large and land scaping wouldn't harm any of it, take the local garbage dump which is generally a very smelly place, the access road and perimeter could probably use a little land scaping, aesthetics might take the patrons mind off the smell and it would be a good job for those too old to break rocks.

I said what the worry is. If I had a business that involved raking leaves, cutting grass, picking up trash or cleaning graffiti, I'd be justifyable pissed off about this:


Offenders should be made accountable for their own actions, and that includes making them give back to society. Inmates in provincial facilities will be required to perform manual labour up to 40 hours per week to earn their stay in prison. Work that would include:
o Raking leaves
o Cutting grass
o Picking up trash
o Cleaning graffiti
http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3141336





Yeah, but all the people put out of work by the cheap prison labour that they couldn't compete with would be more likely to offend, meaning a growing pool of convicts.

Not to mention cleaning drunk tanks at the local detachment! :lol:

 

[cranky]

Who says the prisoners have to profit from their work?

I would be totally happy with all their profits going toward a victims compassion fund or something of the sort.

 

[Just the Facts]

You're not looking at the big picture here.

Hmm. So, in your big picture, I should commit crimes so that I can go to jail and get an education and job experience, so that I can get a good job when I get out?

Something wrong with that picture.

 

[Machjo]

Hmm. So, in your big picture, I should commit crimes so that I can go to jail and get an education and job experience, so that I can get a good job when I get out?

Something wrong with that picture.

Not if everyone gets access to free quality education. Then the difference would be that the non-convict would be free to keep his money beyond taxes, whereas the convict would have to pay room, board and security at the prison too, on top of less freedom.

 

[JLM]

No they should be forced to work and coffee breaks limited to 5 minutes!

 

[petros]

No they should be forced to work and coffee breaks limited to 5 minutes!

You can't force someone to work whether in jail or not.

 

[JLM]

You can't force someone to work whether in jail or not.

If they want to eat you might! :lol:

 

[Cliffy]

You can't force someone to work whether in jail or not.

There is a limit to the kind of work a penis can do and with the Earth quickly becoming over populated, forcing them to work might be detrimental.

 

[petros]

If they want to eat you might! :lol:

That is still forcing. They already are shorted on meals. It's no paradise like you may think. If they want to eat properly they have to buy extra from canteen.

 

[JLM]

There is a limit to the kind of work a penis can do and with the Earth quickly becoming over populated, forcing them to work might be detrimental.

The sad part is it can do as much or more just hanging out in a pair of jeans than a lot of other pr*cks do! :lol:

That is still forcing. They already are shorted on meals. It's no paradise like you may think. If they want to eat properly they have to buy extra from canteen.

I just can't sympathize too much, most of society has to work for their grub!

 

[petros]

And they buy theirs.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Now, let's see if you dodge the question in here.

What do you plan to do with those that refuse to work?

A bullet behind the right ear.

again, what about those that would refuse to work?

Okay, a bullet behind the left ear.

It is a word play on "penal labour". And yes, prisoners should earn their keep. The present system is just plain stupid.

It sure is.

Ya? What makes one penis more dangerous than another?

I don;t know Cliffy, what makes one penis more dangerous than the other.

If they want to eat you might! :lol:

I can't tell you how funny this statement is coming after CLiffy's dangerous penis remark.:lol:

 

[levanty]

Wow. That's a lot of information to absorb in one evening....let me think about this one for a minute. Many of you believe that inmates should have the "right to work" as the initial thread suggests. Others are saying that they be forced and/or given a wage. The latter doesn't sit right at the gut level. Don't forget that there are already many politics within the system that prisoners have to contend with. Nonetheless, if they were given an opportunity to work, there will be additional implications (as discussed here). Where? For whom? For how much? And will this cause them additional problems within their in-mate society. Jealousy, etc. Let's not forget why most of these people are in jail in the first place. They obviously had issues with the "system" to begin with. Sometimes a simple solution is the best. Here's my humble 2 cents worth: Give all prisoners the same "room and board" as usual, don't change anything. Just add a suggested spice to the existing recipe. Should a work plan be implemented, keep it within the institution so as not to encourage private prison slavery. Example: farming their own food, doing prison renovations and general maintenance (cleaning). You would also have to isolate the workers from the non-workers to avoid conflicts. Let them build their own building beside the existing one. Eventually, the workers "camp" would resemble a type of self-sufficient system like a Jewish "kibbutz" with minimal supervision and substantial tax payer savings. The rewards need not be monetary as the in-mates acquire a sense of achievement, hope and personal development as individuals. Extra privileges and freedoms for those who show extra responsibility. A system of self-government and a hierarchy based on abilities and accomplishments. The rewards will reflect our current system without the money/tax worry (for now). Anything to help them re-integrate into an equal opportunity society would be great. Or at least, I think so.

 

[ironsides]

There is a limit to the kind of work a penis can do and with the Earth quickly becoming over populated, forcing them to work might be detrimental.

No limit at all, have to use something to poke holes in furrows for the seeds.

 

[JLM]

Wow. That's a lot of information to absorb in one evening....let me think about this one for a minute. Many of you believe that inmates should have the "right to work" as the initial thread suggests. Others are saying that they be forced and/or given a wage. The latter doesn't sit right at the gut level. Don't forget that there are already many politics within the system that prisoners have to contend with. Nonetheless, if they were given an opportunity to work, there will be additional implications (as discussed here). Where? For whom? For how much? And will this cause them additional problems within their in-mate society. Jealousy, etc. Let's not forget why most of these people are in jail in the first place. They obviously had issues with the "system" to begin with. Sometimes a simple solution is the best. Here's my humble 2 cents worth: Give all prisoners the same "room and board" as usual, don't change anything. Just add a suggested spice to the existing recipe. Should a work plan be implemented, keep it within the institution so as not to encourage private prison slavery. Example: farming their own food, doing prison renovations and general maintenance (cleaning). You would also have to isolate the workers from the non-workers to avoid conflicts. Let them build their own building beside the existing one. Eventually, the workers "camp" would resemble a type of self-sufficient system like a Jewish "kibbutz" with minimal supervision and substantial tax payer savings. The rewards need not be monetary as the in-mates acquire a sense of achievement, hope and personal development as individuals. Extra privileges and freedoms for those who show extra responsibility. A system of self-government and a hierarchy based on abilities and accomplishments. The rewards will reflect our current system without the money/tax worry (for now). Anything to help them re-integrate into an equal opportunity society would be great. Or at least, I think so.

Not to mention load of rocks can be hauled in for refining! They can use it to make jewellry to send their girl friends.

 

[Goober]

Not to mention load of rocks can be hauled in for refining! They can use it to make jewellry to send their girl friends.

Their Girlfriends are normally in the same cell / cell block. So postage is not required.

Their Girlfriends are normally in the same cell / cell block. So postage is not required.

Please take note of a well dressed Avatar. A man of Distinction he is. And not a Metrosexuall as he does his own grooming.

 

[VanIsle]

If they want to eat you might! :lol:

No - Petros is right. They cannot be forced to work and many don't. Some places do hire inmates to be brought in. Sometimes you see work crews out cleaning up on the highway for example. They are not forced to go and some are not even allowed to go. Inmates get paid for any work they do.

That is still forcing. They already are shorted on meals. It's no paradise like you may think. If they want to eat properly they have to buy extra from canteen.

They are not only reasonably well fed, they make demands. They demand things like flax be added to their food. That's the only one I can think of at the moment. They do have to be careful about their demands. Demand something like flax and you can be sorry you did. You might just get what you asked for!!!!