Is Jesus A Prophet According To The Old Testament?

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Jesus was one of these three things: God, liar, or lunatic.
No, there are other options that are far more likely and believable, chief among them being that his followers invented most of the information we have about him. Jesus himself left no writings, there are no writings about him contemporary with his life, the closest to that we have are reports written two generations after his death by people who never met him, and reports from Roman historians about the behaviour of his followers. We cannot even demonstrate unequivocally that he was a real historical person, and we also have writings about other people contemporary with Jesus--Appollonius of Tyana for instance--who reportedly did the same things: healed the sick, raised the dead, rose from the dead himself, and so forth.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Jesus was one of these three things: God, liar, or lunatic.
A fictitious character can be whatever you want him t be. All the so called "proof" that christians say exists has been debunked or mere hear say. If there is a god, then it wouldn't stifle our growth with all those thou shalts and shalt nots. And if it is almighty, then I am sure it is not so insecure that it demands our adulation and obedience.

All this reward and punishment crap is man made by barbarous kings long past. There is probably as much truth in the tales of Hercules as there is in the bible.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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A fictitious character can be whatever you want him t be. All the so called "proof" that christians say exists has been debunked or mere hear say. If there is a god, then it wouldn't stifle our growth with all those thou shalts and shalt nots. And if it is almighty, then I am sure it is not so insecure that it demands our adulation and obedience.

All this reward and punishment crap is man made by barbarous kings long past. There is probably as much truth in the tales of Hercules as there is in the bible.

You make some good and possibly valid points, Cliff (at the peril of pissing off the thumpers) I am not sure if God philosophizes in the same way Man does.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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Jesus was one of these three things: God, liar, or lunatic.


Well, he certainly wasn’t God. He may have been a liar, but perhaps not in the bad sense of the word.

In those days, the quickest, easiest way to get the people to follow you was to claim that you represented God, that you spoke God’s word. If Jesus had not claimed that, he pretty much would have been ignored. Whatever progressive ideas Jesus put forward (and he did put forward some progressive ideas, such as wife is her husband’s servant, not his slave, or his ideas of forgiveness, charity etc.), would have been ignored.

Since he claimed that he was the Messiah, he received the following that he wanted, to spread his message. Indeed, the politicians use the same techniques today. Some of them (mostly Republican) claim to speak for God. They all appeal to patriotism, equal rights for everybody etc. If they didn’t do that, they would not get a hearing.

So Jesus may have been a liar in the sense that most politicians are liars.

Also, I can imagine many other possibilities. One is that he was a charlatan (that goes with being a liar I suppose). Another is that he was just a poor carpenter, and Christians built a religion around him out of whole cloth, and Jesus himself may be surprised if he saw all the religious trappings around him today.

Yet another possibility is that he never existed, that he is a composite of Vishnu, Mahesh (Hindu gods), Horus etc.

So I can think of many possibilities besides God, liar or lunatic. And except for God, I wouldn’t rule out any of them.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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A fictitious character can be whatever you want him t be. All the so called "proof" that christians say exists has been debunked or mere hear say. If there is a god, then it wouldn't stifle our growth with all those thou shalts and shalt nots. And if it is almighty, then I am sure it is not so insecure that it demands our adulation and obedience.

All this reward and punishment crap is man made by barbarous kings long past. There is probably as much truth in the tales of Hercules as there is in the bible.

Quite so, Cliffy. I have thought all along that God of Bible or Koran comes across as some kind of tin pot, Latin American dictator (mercifully they are in short supply these days). You do what I tell you to, or I will subject you to eternal damnation, eternal torture.

Indeed, God comes across as worse than a Latin American a dictator. The worst a dictator could do was to torture you until you die, then you were free from the dictator. God would torture you for all of eternity in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Fear is a big element in keeping the faithful in line.
 

big

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Quite so, Cliffy. I have thought all along that God of Bible or Koran comes across as some kind of tin pot, Latin American dictator (mercifully they are in short supply these days). You do what I tell you to, or I will subject you to eternal damnation, eternal torture.

Indeed, God comes across as worse than a Latin American a dictator. The worst a dictator could do was to torture you until you die, then you were free from the dictator. God would torture you for all of eternity in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Fear is a big element in keeping the faithful in line.

For your salvation, ask yourself why it is particularly easy to make several parts of a horror movie and you will then have a better grasp at what eternity, torture and fear are all about.
 

Cliffy

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For your salvation, ask yourself why it is particularly easy to make several parts of a horror movie and you will then have a better grasp at what eternity, torture and fear are all about.
This makes as much sense as the biblical god - cryptic nonsense.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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No mention of fire and brimstone till the establishment of the Christian Church 1-3 hundred years after Christ, just a control mechinisim. Before that hell or sheol was just a grave, or something unseen.
 

Cliffy

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No mention of fire and brimstone till the establishment of the Christian Church 1-3 hundred years after Christ, just a control mechinisim. Before that hell or sheol was just a grave, or something unseen.
That is about the same time they decided to deify JC. Before that he was just a rabbi.
 

gopher

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The Koran also calls Jesus the Messiah. In the New Testament Jesus honored John the Baptist by calling him the greatest human being who ever lived.
 

AnnaG

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lol No-one can actually prove this Messiah actually existed, though. So it's all hearsay.
 

SirJosephPorter

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No mention of fire and brimstone till the establishment of the Christian Church 1-3 hundred years after Christ, just a control mechinisim. Before that hell or sheol was just a grave, or something unseen.

Indeed. There are some sects of Christianity which don’t believe in Hell. To them believers go to Heaven, while non believers perish at death.