Ahhh, one's "Not for prophet enterprise" is another's "Prophet motive." I guess, from each according to his ..."
Is Jesus A Prophet According To The Old Testament?
- Thread starter Liberalman
- Start date
He just means there are multiple authors, identified mainly by various stylistic features like differing word frequencies, different names for god--the "E" author used the word Elohim, for instance--stuff like that, in the original texts. They're labeled by initials by biblical scholars, nobody knows who they actually were.
''This prophecy is not about Jesus Christ - salam be to him, but it is related to Prophet Mohammed - salam be to him.''
That cannot be as Mohammed's name is not Immanuel and he was not descended of the House of David. But then ''Jesus'' cannot be the name of the Messiah as well because it is not of Israelite origin - Yahshuah was far more appropriate. Besides, the Koran does not indicate that a virgin would conceive him as stated in Isaiah 7:14 which was specifcally addressed to the House of David (verse 13).
However, if this is what you wish to believe, that's fine with me.
Just as there is no relation between the name Immanuel and Jesus, there is none between Elijah and John as you stated. Matt 11 discusses John the Baptist and indicates that ''this is Elias'' (verse 14). Therefore, it appears that John was the prophesied Elijah.
There are many distortions as you say. But unless you can point to parallels between the Bible and the Koran it is impossible for me to believe the prophecies apply to Mohammed as he was not of the 12 Israelite Tribes as you indicated.
That cannot be as Mohammed's name is not Immanuel and he was not descended of the House of David. But then ''Jesus'' cannot be the name of the Messiah as well because it is not of Israelite origin - Yahshuah was far more appropriate. Besides, the Koran does not indicate that a virgin would conceive him as stated in Isaiah 7:14 which was specifcally addressed to the House of David (verse 13).
However, if this is what you wish to believe, that's fine with me.
Just as there is no relation between the name Immanuel and Jesus, there is none between Elijah and John as you stated. Matt 11 discusses John the Baptist and indicates that ''this is Elias'' (verse 14). Therefore, it appears that John was the prophesied Elijah.
There are many distortions as you say. But unless you can point to parallels between the Bible and the Koran it is impossible for me to believe the prophecies apply to Mohammed as he was not of the 12 Israelite Tribes as you indicated.
Prophecies can be in the eye of the beholder, Gopher, prophesies are usually interpreted according to one’s prejudices.
Thus Christians insist that the prophesies in the Old Testament refer to Jesus, that he is the foretold Messiah. Something Jews vehemently deny.
So in my opinion, prophecies are meaningless.
- Abraham had his two sons (in addition to Eso):
Ismael --> he begot twelve chiefs who appeared at different periods in Mecca, the last one of them was Prophet Mohammed.
Isaac --> Jacob (Israel) and his twelve sons --> the tribes of Israel and their prophets ... Moses, David ... and Jesus in Palestine.
So the prophecy of the Torah that a Prophet like Moses, not one of them, but out of their brethren indicates he is the descendent of Ismael; because Mohammed is the grandson or the descendent of Ismael; and if He meant an Israeli prophet, then He wouldn't say of their brethren, but rather He would say: one of them.
And in fact Mohammed is of the rank of Moses and Jesus, according to their striving to serve God Almighty.
Both the Gospel and the Quran were revealed after the Torah (included in the Old Testament), therefore the prophecies of the Torah is related to the prophets that appeared after revealing the Torah: Jesus, Mohammed and the Mahdi.
- Another point: At the time of the coming of Jesus, people were anticipating the appearance of three persons (prophecied in the Torah, but not appeared yet: the Christ, Prophet Mohammed and the Mahdi: the paraclite or Elijah of the last days);
>> Are you Elijah of the last days?
they meant the Mahdi: the Paraclite or Elijah that will be raised in the last days), he said: No.>> Are you the Prophet? ( they meant Prophet Mohammed), he said: No.
>> Are you the Christ or the Messiah or the Anointed?( they meant Jesus Christ), he said: No.
>> Who are you then? John said: I am a voice crying: Repent; for the promise is near; or something like that, and in fact John was the introduction for the coming of Jesus Christ.
So these 3 personalities (The Christ, the Prophet and Elijah of the Last Days) were anticipated by people of that generation: according to what they understood of the prophecies and their traditions.
The prophecies in the Old Testament are chiefly related to these three persons that were expected to appear: the Christ, the Prophet and Elijah that will be raised in the Last Days.
The Christ or the Messiah is the title of Jesus, who was anointed by John by the oil and perfume as was their custom to anoint the kings.
The Prophet is the title of Porphet Mohammed.
And Elijah in Hebrew means Ali in Arabic, and in fact Elijah was a prophet lived and died hundreds of years before the coming of Jesus Christ.
And these three very important persons would do serious changes:
Jesus and his religion,
Mohammed and his religion
and the Mahdi who has not yet ruled (I think his advent may be related to the distortion of the Aqsa Mosque at Jerusalem :angryfire: )
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Jesus was a mere mortal prophet like the other prophets that had passed away before him.
And his mother was a true believer in the Ten Commandments of God her Lord.
Both Jesus and his mother ate the food, which will certainly be some dirts in their bowels, and they had to relieve nature; so how can they be some gods!
This is according to the meaning of an aya of the Quran.
A prophet is someone who tells prophecies, that is, who announces future events. Jesus is, rather, the Messiah because his life is more attuned with what Old Testament prophets were announcing.
''Prophecies can be in the eye of the beholder, Gopher, prophesies are usually interpreted according to one’s prejudices.''
And that's pretty much what I was trying to convey to eanassir.
However, it is very difficult to draw parallels between the Bible and the Koran. Nothing he says denies Matt 11 and its portrayal of Elijah as John. However, if he wishes to believe otherwise, that's perfectly OK.
And that's pretty much what I was trying to convey to eanassir.
However, it is very difficult to draw parallels between the Bible and the Koran. Nothing he says denies Matt 11 and its portrayal of Elijah as John. However, if he wishes to believe otherwise, that's perfectly OK.
How does eating food prove he wasn't God?
How does the fact that his mother ate food prove he wasn't God?
How does pooping prove Jesus wasn't God?
What does distinguish Jesus from the prophets:
1. He fulfilled numerous messianic prophecies written hundreds of years in advance.
2. He lived a sinless life and performed miraculous deeds.
• Peter characterized Jesus as an "unblemished and spotless" lamb (1 Pet. 1:19, NASB) "who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth" (1 Pet. 2:22, NASB).
• John said of Christ, "in Him there is no sin" (1 John 3:5, NASB).
• Paul wrote that Jesus "knew no sin" (2 Cor. 5:21, NASB).
• The writer of Hebrews made the same point by claiming that
Jesus was "without sin" (Heb. 4:15, NASB).
3. He predicted and then accomplished his own resurrection from the dead.
''Prophecies can be in the eye of the beholder, Gopher, prophesies are usually interpreted according to one’s prejudices.''
And that's pretty much what I was trying to convey to eanassir.
However, it is very difficult to draw parallels between the Bible and the Koran. Nothing he says denies Matt 11 and its portrayal of Elijah as John. However, if he wishes to believe otherwise, that's perfectly OK."
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That is true Gopher and SJP
The indication is what people, belonging to all these three religions, interpret such prophecies: now in particular in relation to the second coming of the Christ and the Mahdi.
What is mentioned in Matt 11 was also one of such interpretations that were inserted in the Gospel of Matthew to convince people about the prophecy of Jesus and his truthfulness. So that all the past prophecies in the Torah they interpreted as related to Jesus.
So while certainly there are many prophecies in the Torah related to Jesus (but certainly not all the prophecies are related to Jesus - salam be to him.)
Some of such prophecies are related to Prophet Mohammed, and others are neither related to Mohammed nor to Jesus but are related to the Mahdi.
And that's pretty much what I was trying to convey to eanassir.
However, it is very difficult to draw parallels between the Bible and the Koran. Nothing he says denies Matt 11 and its portrayal of Elijah as John. However, if he wishes to believe otherwise, that's perfectly OK."
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That is true Gopher and SJP
The indication is what people, belonging to all these three religions, interpret such prophecies: now in particular in relation to the second coming of the Christ and the Mahdi.
What is mentioned in Matt 11 was also one of such interpretations that were inserted in the Gospel of Matthew to convince people about the prophecy of Jesus and his truthfulness. So that all the past prophecies in the Torah they interpreted as related to Jesus.
So while certainly there are many prophecies in the Torah related to Jesus (but certainly not all the prophecies are related to Jesus - salam be to him.)
Some of such prophecies are related to Prophet Mohammed, and others are neither related to Mohammed nor to Jesus but are related to the Mahdi.
Mohammed is not a prophet precisely because his Koran contains no prophecies (predictions).
No its not, "in the eye of the beholder" is a relativist mantra. It allows them to broaden the topic and keep the real answers obscure. Its an old, nasty, under-handed trick designed mostly so they themselves don't have to face reality.
Jesus Christ was either God, (he fulfilled the prophecies) or he was a man who claimed to be God both directly and indirectly, which means he was a liar(he knew he wasn't God) or a lunatic(thought he was God but wasn't), which can hardly be a prophet.
Relativists would have you believe that its "in the eye of the beholder", that he was God for alley, a prophet for eanassir, and that he didn't exist for SJP, all at the same time. Obviously, this is the most illogical, stupid viewpoint on the face of the planet.
Jesus was one of these three things: God, liar, or lunatic.
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It means he was like other prophets and like other people; and relieving the nature and passing the dirt of the bowel is not proper for a god.
Such are the prophets of God and the righteous people devoted to God alone and the pious that avoid the sin.
This is some fabricated story out of their enthusiasm, and misinterpretation of the fact that they saw him alive three days after that incident, and he ate of the bread, the fish and the honey that they had.
A better and more logical explanation is that he was not in fact crucified, but another one: Barabbas who was a criminal in the prison of Pilate. and neither Pilate nor Herodus were convinced that Jesus deserved any death penalty.
Does God say this of himself? Show me.
Ah, but still they had sinned a some point in their lives, not to mention mankind's original sin. But Jesus was born without original sin(bypassed by the virgin birth which was prophecised), and lived a completely sin-free life which means he was perfect. And therefore a perfect sacrifice suitable to atone for all the sin in the people's lives and to reconcile with the entire world.
This is the typical Islamic explanation to get around the facts.
The early church that witnessed resurrection not only specifically told us that they were witnesses, but they challenged the readers(us) to investigate their claims for themselves, not mention the completely discarded their ancient, long-held, cherished religion for a new system of beliefs to which they suffered persecution and death.
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Ishmael, who was the start of the Arab people, and Ishmael means "God hears". That's why he sent Jesus Christ for the Arabs and all other humans.
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That's right, go to bed and chew on the truth for awhile, I'm sure you'll catch up one day.
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