Illegal drugs Canada's Growing International Market

[DurkaDurka]

How does the government regulate a dangerous drug like crack cocaine or crystal meth? By doing so, they would be complicit in overdoses and would open them selves up to all sorts of liability lawsuits. Pot is one thing but when people talk about regulating other drugs they really haven't thought the whole situation out.

In order for the product to be taxed one would have to buy it from a "government approved" dealer, which again is unlikely.

 

[AnnaG]

How does the government regulate a dangerous drug like crack cocaine or crystal meth? By doing so, they would be complicit in overdoses and would open them selves up to all sorts of liability lawsuits. Pot is one thing but when people talk about regulating other drugs they really haven't thought the whole situation out.

In order for the product to be taxed one would have to buy it from a "government approved" dealer, which again is unlikely.

The gov't regulates the pharmacies, doesn't it? Or are they exempt from gov't interference?
Besides, people overdose on food constantly. Gov't regulates that stuff. I think pharmacies should be the only ones to be able to dispense tobacco products, too, for that matter.

 

[DurkaDurka]

The gov't regulates the pharmacies, doesn't it? Or are they exempt from gov't interference?
Besides, people overdose on food constantly. Gov't regulates that stuff. I think pharmacies should be the only ones to be able to dispense tobacco products, too, for that matter.

Comparing pharmaceutical regulation to regulating street drugs trade is non-nonsensical. The various chemicals that go into drugs like Meth, Crack, Ectasy etc would never be approved in the first place.

Your whole food analogy is really lacking. Chances are I could eat 4 quarter pounders right now and just have a case of mud butt, whereas if I consumed 4 grams of heroin or crack I would be heading to the emergency pretty damn quick. The principles applied to food, alcohol & pharmaceutical regulations don't necessarily work with street drugs.

 

[Unforgiven]

That's assuming that people would buy drugs from the government.

Would the government supply drugs at the current street price? Doubt it.

How do you regulate something like crystal meth or crack? Drugs like this are full of nasty chemicals which you cannot remove else the it wouldn't be crack or crystal meth.

I can support decriminalization of drugs but having the government regulate and sell drugs? No thanks.

Those who understand the issue seem to think decrim of Pot is the way to go. One thing though, Canada and the US have to be on the same page. Otherwise Canada becomes a warehouse for the US market.

The goal is to take away a major funding tool of organized crime. Since that is where the violence comes from, removing the major money source also removes the funding and support for buying guns, funding labs that make dangerous drugs. Fighting over turf when it comes to who supplies the drugs and controls the area.

Decrim 10 plants per house hold. Possession of under a kilo and sale of under a pound. Legalize seed sales. Should anyone get stupid with it they can spend the night in the drunk tank and what they have with them is confiscated. No prison, no criminal record.

Doing so would take in my estimation, round 15 billion dollars out of the hands of organized crime. In the first year. Take that kind of money out of any industry and see what it does.

No one would spend $200 and more for a ounce of Pot when you can grow your own for a year on that amount of money.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I agree with most of what you said there unf, and it makes sense for the most part.

Decriminalizing marijuana should have happened years ago but you know how politics go....

 

[Unforgiven]

I agree with most of what you said there unf, and it makes sense for the most part.

Decriminalizing marijuana should have happened years ago but you know how politics go....

If shooting babies got politicians elected it would be the national sport. But I don't understand the people of either country supporting politicians that support the war on drugs. All the information is there that would lead a reasonable person to agree that that war is a failure and only takes money away from areas of enforcement that could be making a difference in all our lives. Like the article about stolen cars in Canada. We don't even have the money to pay people to search containers leaving this country. I mean it's against the law not to declare the ten grand you want to take out of the country but who is going to stop you loading a few hundred grand and a couple of cars in a container and shipping it over seas? Not the government or the police in this country that's for sure.

Pass a joint to someone at a protest or sell seeds over the internet to someone in the US and the G is all over you. At least they can be if you get a little too noticable when talking about the mess they have made with this drug war.

That is perfectly acceptable by the public of both countries.

 

[AnnaG]

Comparing pharmaceutical regulation to regulating street drugs trade is non-nonsensical. The various chemicals that go into drugs like Meth, Crack, Ectasy etc would never be approved in the first place.

Like what? Arsenic? That's used in drugs to treat cancer. How about botulinum toxin (the most toxic protein we know of? It's extremely lethal. It is used for treatment of muscle spasms and is a treatment for cervical dystonia. How about the crap that tobacco companies put in what people smoke? And this is just the ones starting with the letter "a":

• Acetanisole
• Acetic Acid
• Acetoin
• Acetophenone
• 6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
• 2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
• 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
• Acetylpyrazine
• 2-Acetylpyridine
• 3-Acetylpyridine
• 2-Acetylthiazole
• Aconitic Acid
• dl-Alanine
• Alfalfa Extract
• Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
• Allyl Hexanoate
• Allyl Ionone
• Almond Bitter Oil
• Ambergris Tincture
• Ammonia
• Ammonium Bicarbonate
• Ammonium Hydroxide
• Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
• Ammonium Sulfide
• Amyl Alcohol
• Amyl Butyrate
• Amyl Formate
• Amyl Octanoate
• alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
• Amyris Oil
• trans-Anethole
• Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
• Anise
• Anise Star, Extract and Oils
• Anisyl Acetate
• Anisyl Alcohol
• Anisyl Formate
• Anisyl Phenylacetate
• Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
• Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
• 1-Arginine
• Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
• Ascorbic Acid

Ammonium Hydroxide? Ammonium Sulfide? Yeah, that stuff's really good for people and it's allowed to be sold to people in any quantity they choose. Perhaps you could use a refresher class or two in chemistry.

Your whole food analogy is really lacking. Chances are I could eat 4 quarter pounders right now and just have a case of mud butt, whereas if I consumed 4 grams of heroin or crack I would be heading to the emergency pretty damn quick. The principles applied to food, alcohol & pharmaceutical regulations don't necessarily work with street drugs.

So you die more slowly with the burgers and cheese slices. Big deal. They still shorten your natural lifespan and cost a lot more in the longterm healthcare you would need to treat food abuse. Ever see the movie "Supersize me"? Or "Food Inc."? Ever wonder how much it costs in healthcare just for heart diseases alone (I mean the ones related to food abuse)? You are really funny if you don't think food causes problems beyond a little "mudbutt".

 

[DurkaDurka]

Anna, explain to me how the government would regulate ingredients such as these, commonly used for making crystal meth:

Almost Unbelievable: The Ingredients Contained in Crystal Meth

• Match Heads (Hydriodic Acid)
• Iodine
• Drano
• Brake Fluid
• Ephedrine (derived from Sudaphed)
• Butane
• Hydrochloric acid
• Sodium hydroxide
• Ether
• Anhydrous Ammonia

 

[AnnaG]

Anna, explain to me how the government would regulate ingredients such as these, commonly used for making crystal meth:

Almost Unbelievable: The Ingredients Contained in Crystal Meth

• Match Heads (Hydriodic Acid)
• Iodine
• Drano
• Brake Fluid
• Ephedrine (derived from Sudaphed)
• Butane
• Hydrochloric acid
• Sodium hydroxide
• Ether
• Anhydrous Ammonia

lol Are you trying to tell me that embalming fluid and ammonium hydroxide isn't as dangerous as Drano or sodium hydroxide? That's funny.

The same way the gov't regulates the ingredients in tobacco. IOW, it doesn't give a crap unless enough people squawk.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Find me a product that you can by legally ingest which allows for ingredients such as brake fluid, butane and drano?

 

[Niflmir]

How does the government regulate a dangerous drug like crack cocaine or crystal meth? By doing so, they would be complicit in overdoses and would open them selves up to all sorts of liability lawsuits. Pot is one thing but when people talk about regulating other drugs they really haven't thought the whole situation out.

In order for the product to be taxed one would have to buy it from a "government approved" dealer, which again is unlikely.

I am unfamiliar with any lawsuit where a manufacturer or distributor is held liable for improper usage when sufficient precautions are taken. Certainly, when typical precautions are overlooked, then liability enters but prima facie there is no liability.

Think alcohol and alcohol related deaths. Guns and gun related deaths. The reason the tobacco companies were held liable is because they tried to cover up the fact that tobacco is toxic, not the fact that it is in fact toxic. Same goes for bartenders who let people drink themselves into oblivion at a bar, they can see the person has had too much letting them have more is a bad idea.

Although generally in Canada one must buy alcohol from a government retailer or government approved retailer, this is not so much the case with tobacco products and less so with guns. Technically every retailer needs some amount of government approval. In Germany for instance, one can buy beer and wine all over the place, even my local Quik-E mart and I have never heard any stories about people being sued for negligence.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I am unfamiliar with any lawsuit where a manufacturer or distributor is held liable for improper usage when sufficient precautions are taken. Certainly, when typical precautions are overlooked, then liability enters but prima facie there is no liability.

Think alcohol and alcohol related deaths. Guns and gun related deaths. The reason the tobacco companies were held liable is because they tried to cover up the fact that tobacco is toxic, not the fact that it is in fact toxic. Same goes for bartenders who let people drink themselves into oblivion at a bar, they can see the person has had too much letting them have more is a bad idea.

Although generally in Canada one must buy alcohol from a government retailer or government approved retailer, this is not so much the case with tobacco products and less so with guns. Technically every retailer needs some amount of government approval. In Germany for instance, one can buy beer and wine all over the place, even my local Quik-E mart and I have never heard any stories about people being sued for negligence.

What sufficient precautions could possibly be taken when making crystal meth? Fires, explosions & chemical burns are common byproducts of making this drug and not to mention the ills it brings upon the end user. It is not a product where one can decree it to meeting government standards.

 

[taxslave]

De-criminalize and control. Risk is profit and it's the easy money aspect that draws organized crime into it. Actual street price would be a fraction of what it is when pusher premium is gone and you wouldn't have all the foreign substance rubbed in for extra mileage and bigger profit.

If it's regulated, quality will always be the almost the same.

If the thrill of getting away with something is gone, a big part of the market will be gone.

If the artificially high price is gone, users won't be stealing to feed the need.

If programs are put in place, addicts can be treated instead of incarcerated.

If cops aren't occupied with tracking down drugs, they can be out on the street catching impaired drivers and child molestors.

I could live with that. But it is much too simple and cheap for governments to consider.

 

[Niflmir]

What sufficient precautions could possibly be taken when making crystal meth? Fires, explosions & chemical burns are common byproducts of making this drug and not to mention the ills it brings upon the end user. It is not a product where one can decree it to meeting government standards.

There are safer ways of making it from chemicals which are not allowed to be sold in stores for just those reasons.

 

[petros]

Government has to spend more money on drug enforcement officers and get rid of this problem because this is the core problem of the guns and gangs.

If you get rid of the core problem the gangs will go away

Dads will manifest out of no-where to be the role model the gang is to the youth by having more dope cops?

 

[DurkaDurka]

There are safer ways of making it from chemicals which are not allowed to be sold in stores for just those reasons.

Has there ever existed a form of crystal meth not made from those types of ingredients?

Regardless of how safe they could make it, it would still be a very dangerous drug. Then we have the problem of inevitably having to devote considerable health care resources toward a problem the government is actively complicit in.

 

[AnnaG]

Find me a product that you can by legally ingest which allows for ingredients such as brake fluid, butane and drano?

Sorry. I didn't understand this part, "Find me a product that you can by legally ingest ".

 

[AnnaG]

There are safer ways of making it from chemicals which are not allowed to be sold in stores for just those reasons.

Right. I think the only reason people use Drano, brake fluid, etc. in making those drugs is that the said items contains the ingredients used to make the drug. So they take the storebought item and extract the substance they want and go from there. So, crack or meth probably doesn't have Drano in it, but contains something that is in Drano. Kind of like taking salt apart to get the sodium.
Tobacco is different. The bad substances are put into the tobacco and the tobacco companies don't need to buy drano or whatever to get what they put in. Thinking ammoinium hydroxide isn't as bad as Drano or brake fluid shows ignorance. The stuff will eat its way through you just as well as any acid.
And there are 600 ingredients put into tobacco that it doesn't ordinarily contain. A good many of them are extremely toxic.

 

[AnnaG]

Has there ever existed a form of crystal meth not made from those types of ingredients?

Regardless of how safe they could make it, it would still be a very dangerous drug. Then we have the problem of inevitably having to devote considerable health care resources toward a problem the government is actively complicit in.

That's why they should be sold in pharmacies like most other drugs (morphine, meperidine HCl, codeine, etc.) instead of at corner stores.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Yeah, legalize and regulate all drugs, take the profit out of it.Would cure govt deficits pronto.